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For those of you against socialized medicine...


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False logic. Capitalism and Health Care don't get a chance to mix in the US. I agree that the insurance companies are to blame.

 

The problem is that the party that gets the service doesn't directly pay for said service. Until that changes, Insurance companies will do whatever they can. You can't blame capitalism unless you allow the market (individuals) to participate directly in the commerce.

 

Actually, what you are blaming is a form of limited socialized health care. Large numbers of people paying into a limited number of collectives, in the attempt to spread the costs "evenly". That will only get worse under socialized medicine. I have seen how that system works, though relatives in Europe. I'll pass on that one, thanks.

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OK, that's a big issue, but I don't think you can automatically say this is an industry-wide problem. Even the highlighted person admits her subsequent experience with the same company has been "perfect". And do you really want to put your health in the hands of politicians? Talk about not giving a sh** about their constituents. The federal government F's up everything they touch. I sure don't want politicians deciding what kind of healthcare I need.

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False logic. Capitalism and Health Care don't get a chance to mix in the US. I agree that the insurance companies are to blame.

 

The problem is that the party that gets the service doesn't directly pay for said service. Until that changes, Insurance companies will do whatever they can. You can't blame capitalism unless you allow the market (individuals) to participate directly in the commerce.

 

Actually, what you are blaming is a form of limited socialized health care. Large numbers of people paying into a limited number of collectives, in the attempt to spread the costs "evenly". That will only get worse under socialized medicine. I have seen how that system works, though relatives in Europe. I'll pass on that one, thanks.

 

Insurance companies are profit driven: therefore, it's capitalism. It's not false logic; it's fact. They do more than this to not pay valid claims so they can increase their profit. There is no spreading the cost about it. If you saw the crap that goes on from the provider's perspective you'd understand.

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OK, that's a big issue, but I don't think you can automatically say this is an industry-wide problem. Even the highlighted person admits her subsequent experience with the same company has been "perfect". And do you really want to put your health in the hands of politicians? Talk about not giving a sh** about their constituents. The federal government F's up everything they touch. I sure don't want politicians deciding what kind of healthcare I need.

I said this is just one way that they screw everyone.

 

And do you think that insurance companies do a better job of deciding what healthcare you receive then politicians? I agree that politicians will F-up a good idea in a heartbeat: however, that is why you design a system that keeps them from interfering with it. You design a system that is healthcare driven; not one driven by profit or politics. It can be done, but the question is will it be done? I have said many times that insurance companies are the primary reason for the increase in healthcare costs; not doctors and healthcare facilities. Those that say they are against socialized medicine are saying they approve of paying more for less.

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Insurance companies are profit driven: therefore, it's capitalism. It's not false logic; it's fact. They do more than this to not pay valid claims so they can increase their profit. There is no spreading the cost about it. If you saw the crap that goes on from the provider's perspective you'd understand.

 

 

Agreed, For every physician in a group you need almost 2 people to work the billing.. It is insane the number of rejections that are sent through for crazy reasons. i.e. Persons name is Heidi but the claim form shows Hiedi. Every denial that comes through is at least 15 mins on the phone with the Insurance company. Tons of hours go into working denials and you're lucky if you get a third of the money.

 

Many people have no clue how much money is written of, never to be recovered by physician groups. It is insane.

 

In the area I live in, many physicians are selling their practices to the large hospital. The guys work for a fixed salary, take call and no longer have to deal with the billing headaches.

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I agree with what you are saying to an extent. But, socialized medicine is not that answer either and no, I dont claim to have an answer

 

It seems society is all about greed anymore. They get you comming and going, not telling you the details until you get the bill. :censored:

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I see what we get sometimes in ambulance billing, its bad. At the same time, I spent time in the Military system as many hear have and thats not always pretty

 

Because of politics. When I was in the Marine Corps back in the 80's you could not sue a Navy doctor for malpractice. This meant that the doctors weren't worried about their decisions as much as a civilian doctor: therefore, the quality of care was not as good. I had a friend who suffered life-long disability because of a Navy surgeon's malpractice, and there was not a dang thing that he could do about it. This is why the system needs to be designed by medical professionals; not by politicians or insurance companies.

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Agreed, For every physician in a group you need almost 2 people to work the billing.. It is insane the number of rejections that are sent through for crazy reasons. i.e. Persons name is Heidi but the claim form shows Hiedi. Every denial that comes through is at least 15 mins on the phone with the Insurance company. Tons of hours go into working denials and you're lucky if you get a third of the money.

 

Many people have no clue how much money is written of, never to be recovered by physician groups. It is insane.

 

In the area I live in, many physicians are selling their practices to the large hospital. The guys work for a fixed salary, take call and no longer have to deal with the billing headaches.

 

Exactly, and it was worse before electronic filing. The insurance companies, (and I had patients who worked for Cigna who confirmed this), would throw away the claims. When the healthcare provider would follow-up with a call they would claim that they never received the claim. They'd repeat this until the claim was old enough that they could deny it as untimely, (60-90 days). Nice!

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Insurance companies are profit driven: therefore, it's capitalism. It's not false logic; it's fact. They do more than this to not pay valid claims so they can increase their profit. There is no spreading the cost about it. If you saw the crap that goes on from the provider's perspective you'd understand.

 

I do understand.

 

Insurance companies collect premiums from may people - be it auto, home, life, or health insurance. They pool that money and pay (as little as possible to) the service provider - mechanic, home owner, beneficiary, or health care provider.

 

That isn't capitalism, though. Any time the consumer (the market place) is removed from the payment process, you can't call it capitalism. It is socialism lite.

 

Maybe my point wasn't stated properly. I'm in favor of a system where the recipient of the health care provided actually pays the bill, then gets reimbursed some percentage for said procedure. Basically a health care voucher system. That way the consumer can shop both the insurance company as well as the health care provider.

 

To me, that reflects capitalism better than the existing system. I'm not arguing against your premise that Insurance companies are a big part of the problem now, just the use of the term capitalism. Like I said before, I consider the current set up closer to socialism (or socialized medicine) than to capitalism.

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Exactly, and it was worse before electronic filing. The insurance companies, (and I had patients who worked for Cigna who confirmed this), would throw away the claims. When the healthcare provider would follow-up with a call they would claim that they never received the claim. They'd repeat this until the claim was old enough that they could deny it as untimely, (60-90 days). Nice!

That has been my exact experience with Cigna.

 

Ever try and get anybody on the telephone from any of these groups? It is near impossible. 20 prompts and then 10 mins waiting time and the person is in India and cannot speak a word of english.

 

Very frustrating.

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