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Front sway bar settings.


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McCoy, if you go all the way, the car will have a tendency to "push" more (understeer). If you feel like the car is too "loose" now (oversteer), then it might be worth a try. I think the car seems fine (neutral) for street driving, but the feeling on an actual race track may be different. Hopefully those that have raced with our stock sway bars can chime in.

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I put mine in the top hole not long after I got it. No problems. It just tightens up the body roll a bit. I guess that is what is meant by the car wanting to understeer but actually the SOTP difference from the last hole to the top hole is very slight.

 

I like a "heavier feeling" steering wheel in corners which this help to accomplish. Makes it feel more like a Camaro.... :speedie:

 

:hysterical:

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I have a blue front sway bar, from Steeda. 1 3/8 inches and three holes. On the 2006 V6 convertible it was mounted in conjunction with a 26mm rear bar from H&R. The combination with the front bar linked to the second (middle) hole gave ever-so-slightly too much oversteer in high-speed steady-state cornering. With the front bar linked in the shortest-arm hole, it was pretty much neutral. On autocross tracks that arrangement allowed either oversteer or understeer to be induced by driver behavior (pitch-and-catch, trailing brake, etc.)

 

I never tried the blue front bar with the standard bar, but the changes I could sense lead me to believe with the standard rear bar, or at least one smaller than 26mm, it would produce noticeable understeer, a usually a desirable characteristic in an over-the-road car.

 

I have been reluctant to try the bigger bars on the 2009 GT/CS. Mr Ford seems to have changed his rear-bar assembly techniques. I was raised in a "turn the nut on the bolt" universe; his new approach in the rear fixes it so the nuts on the upper (body) link mounting will not accept a wrench. Where on the 2006 I could use my limited skills and tools to remove and replace a rear swaybar with ease, now I am faced with unscrewing a bolt from a nut! I don't know if I can do that.

 

When I tried to get a wrench on these nuts, I thought the assembler had spun the corners off. I went to the dealer and asked for them to put some good nuts on. Answer: "They are that way for a reason!" To make it hard on us nut-turners, right? After that news I looked a little closer, and see that they really slam something onto those nuts to deform them like that. Who and how do you suppose it benefits anyone? Eh?

 

swayNut_30640.jpg swayNut_30643.jpg

swayNut_30643.jpg

swayNut_30640.jpg

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When I tried to get a wrench on these nuts, I thought the assembler had spun the corners off. I went to the dealer and asked for them to put some good nuts on. Answer: "They are that way for a reason!" To make it hard on us nut-turners, right? After that news I looked a little closer, and see that they really slam something onto those nuts to deform them like that. Who and how do you suppose it benefits anyone? Eh?

post-19142-1231438818_thumb.jpg post-19142-1231438808_thumb.jpg

 

Put the wrench (or socket) on the bolt head, not the nut. I have taken these off/on from the lower control arms and panhard bar without any problems. The tab on the nut should keep the nut from spinning.

The maintenance manual recommends using these as single use meaning they should be replaced each time they are removed but a lot of people (including some dealer mechanics) re-use them when adding aftermarket parts.

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Put the wrench (or socket) on the bolt head, not the nut. I have taken these off/on from the lower control arms and panhard bar without any problems. The tab on the nut should keep the nut from spinning.

The maintenance manual recommends using these as single use meaning they should be replaced each time they are removed but a lot of people (including some dealer mechanics) re-use them when adding aftermarket parts.

 

Thank you. I reckon there's no other way.

 

Just another part of my old, familiar world crumbles away.

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Thanks Ilmore. I can say that oversteer is what I have experienced and I am not uncomfortable with it on my limited autocross runs. I think maybe I wll try to see what the other guys are running, there are enough SGT's running maybe a SCCA forum has Sam Stranos secret sway bar setting...haha.

 

I guess what I am not understanding and this is a stupid question perhaps but going front to rear holes does what as far as oversteer and understeer?

 

Rearward holes would produce more oversteer?

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I might add that what I have experienced may be due to poor driving technique as well, the car is amazing as is when you can really let it rip. I did find that my foot was not used to what I'd consider a very light throttle return. My driving experience is in carburated cars set up (by me) for drags. Where the throttle springs I had always run were stiff as I could get (letting off snaps power off) and doubled up for safety.

 

So I tended to oversteer by throttle haha...not the fastest way around the cones and I hope that this year I wil not get "lost" as much as well. I also got some SAI driving shoes for x-mas which as I have only tried them on the street seem like they will really help with throttle modulation. I could have won more, I seem to jive just fine with the car on the edge (love this dang car) but would get a gate penality by being lost. I hope to get it and my mind right on the track memory this season (at least in the limited events I can make).

 

Maybe the swaybar setting is fine as is?

 

Did you auto-x your car yet Ilmore? If so what did you think as you are a past conehead...

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Thanks Ilmore. I can say that oversteer is what I have experienced and I am not uncomfortable with it on my limited autocross runs. I think maybe I wll try to see what the other guys are running, there are enough SGT's running maybe a SCCA forum has Sam Stranos secret sway bar setting...haha.

 

I guess what I am not understanding and this is a stupid question perhaps but going front to rear holes does what as far as oversteer and understeer?

 

Rearward holes would produce more oversteer?

 

Correct. Rearward softens the front bar, thus tendency for more oversteer (rear steps out or "loose" in NASCAR terms). Forward holes effectively stiffens the front bar, this tends to make it roll less in corners but it adds to understeer or "push" in NASCAR terms.

Sway bars are really coarse adjustments wrt under/oversteer. You can get really fancy with adjustable shocks and fine tune things for under/oversteer as well. Ditto with tire pressures. It all depends on what you want and the conditions, high speed road course, lower speed solo course, is it raining or dry, etc.

 

For a really good general purpose reference on car handling check out:

 

How to Make Your Car Handle, by Fred Puhn. Published back in 1976 by HP Books. My cover price on it says a whole $4.95 but that was then and this is now.

ISBN: 0-912656-46-8. I'm sure thee's newer books, but the prncipals are still valid.

 

Todd Butler

07sgt1638

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I've seen relative stiffness of the three holes expressed in percent increase/decrease, and it may have been for a different bar from those mentioned here. Something like "The longest-arm hole increases stiffness over the stock bar by 15%, the next hole by another 5%, same for the last hole". Given the magnitude of the forces acting on the tire contact patch, 15-25% differences may not be significant, as Todd implies; particularly in an otherwise stock setup.

 

The effect is also influenced by camber settings, spring height and rate, differences in wheel width and tire size front to rear.

 

The V6 car with the two specialty bars also had Steeda Sport springs and Tokico D-Spec adjustable shocks and struts. The perceived degree of change due to each of those influences was remarkable, and never so much as when the whole lash-up was set on some competition-oriented tires (245-45 Bridgestone Potenza RE-01Rs on 18x8.5 rims) or max-performance street tires (275-35 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 on 19x9/10 rims).

 

All that upgrading of equipment became proof that the performance limiter, and the area of greatest potential improvement was driver skill. If you're serious about autocross you should do it as often as possible. In Southern California it's possible to do a practice or championship event nearly every weekend, between Los Angeles and San Diego.

 

Fred Puhn's book came out a few years after my heyday in the earlier 70s. I did get into his second edition as my TR7's behavior was a demonstration of excessive nosedive on braking (p. 26, I think). The book is still avaiable; if Amazon can't scare one up, Steve Coe at C2 Motorsports can probably pull one off the rack for you.

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So in looking under the front of the car there are 3 sway bar settings (see upskirt thread) so which hole does what? Would like to go all the way stiff if that would not screw anything up....Thanks!

 

FWIW, I use the full firm (foward hole) front sway bar setting. I have not noticed excessive understeer (push) with this setting, but I also have Tokico D-Specs so I can fine tune my SGT's balance with that sway bar setting.

 

BTW, I'm planning to attend more local events this Autocross Season... hope to see you at one of those events.

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FWIW, I use the full firm (foward hole) front sway bar setting. I have not noticed excessive understeer (push) with this setting, but I also have Tokico D-Specs so I can fine tune my SGT's balance with that sway bar setting.

 

BTW, I'm planning to attend more local events this Autocross Season... hope to see you at one of those events.

 

Cool Rick I hope to see you as well, I owe you a personal thanks. If you remember I autocrossed last year after your encouragement, man it was the most fun I have had in a car in a very long time... :happy feet: :shift: I have a boat habit but I will be trying to make more events myself...Cheers and I may try the "firm" setting as well... :banvictory: :burnout:

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Cool Rick I hope to see you as well, I owe you a personal thanks. If you remember I autocrossed last year after your encouragement, man it was the most fun I have had in a car in a very long time... :happy feet: :shift: I have a boat habit but I will be trying to make more events myself...Cheers and I may try the "firm" setting as well... :banvictory: :burnout:

 

Yes, I remember... I'm glad that you are having fun with Autocrossing. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to stop by the events last year to say "hello"... I'm planning to enter more events in 2009.

 

As an additional item to consider, I am also planning to install a front set of "competition" sway bar end links when I swap out my struts & shocks (D-Specs to Koni Sport Yellows) in the off season. I have heard that the OE end links don't hold up well with hard use and the "competition" end links look to be very stout with HD rod ends on a threaded tube. A lot of places sell this type of end link (Strano, Steeda) and they might be a consideration for you & others that Autocross/Track their SGTs a lot.

 

I hope to see you at an Autocross event in the near future... assuming your "boat habit" allows of course. :)

 

Happy motoring... :shift:

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