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Clutch Chatter & Gear Roll over noise = NORMAL


Grabber

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20442 2007-2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 - CLUTCH CHATTER

SOME 2007 - 2009 SHELBY GT500 MUSTANGS EQUIPPED WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION MAY EXHIBIT A "CLUTCH CHATTER" DURING INITIAL TAKE-OFF OF THE VEHICLE WHEN THE TRANSMISSION IS HOT. THE CLUTCH CHATTER MAY BE PRESENT IN 1ST AND/OR REVERSE GEARS AND IS CONSIDERED A NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC CAUSED BY THE CERAMETALIC CLUTCH LINING. THE CLUTCH CHATTER HAS NO EFFECT ON THE PERFORMANCE OR DURABILITY OF THE VEHICLE. COMPARE TO A LIKE UNIT. IF THE SYMPTOM IS EXCESSIVE COMPARED TO A LIKE UNIT, FOLLOW NORMAL WORKSHOP MANUAL PROCEDURES TO FURTHER DIAGNOSE THE ISSUE.

EFFECTIVE DATE: 09/15/2008

 

 

20441 2007 - 2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 - GEAR RATTLE IN 1ST AND 2ND GEAR

SOME 2007 - 2009 SHELBY GT500 MUSTANGS EQUIPPED WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION MAY EXHIBIT A "GEAR RATTLE" NOISE FROM THE DRIVELINE IN 1ST AND 2ND GEAR UNDER LIGHT ACCELERATION. THE NOISE IS ONLY PRESENT IN 1ST AND 2ND GEAR AND IS CONSIDERED A NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC CAUSED BY THE CONTACT PATTERN OF THESE GEARS. THE GEAR RATTLE NOISE HAS NO EFFECT ON THE PERFORMANCE OR DURABILITY OF THE VEHICLE. COMPARE TO A LIKE UNIT. IF THE SYMPTOM IS EXCESSIVE COMPARED TO A LIKE UNIT, FOLLOW NORMAL WORKSHOP MANUAL PROCEDURES TO FURTHER DIAGNOSE THE ISSUE.

EFFECTIVE DATE: 09/15/2008

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Clutch chatter or Gear roll over noise in your car is not one of the problems listed in the TSB symptoms....so that is why dealers are not doing the TSB for those 2 symptoms.

 

You must have these symptoms:

 

2007-2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 - CLUTCH DRAG

SOME 2007-2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT THE FOLLOWING CLUTCH/TRANS SYMPTOMS: HARD TO DISENGAGE OR ENGAGE 1ST AND REVERSE, HARD TO SHIFT ANY GEAR, GEAR GRINDING DURING SHIFTS ANY GEAR, VEHICLE CREEPS WITH TRANS IN GEAR AND CLUTCH PEDAL FULLY DEPRESSED WITHOUT BRAKE PEDAL APPLICATION, CLUTCH SLIPPAGE IN GEAR WITH CLUTCH PEDAL RELEASED, HISS NOISE WITH CLUTCH PEDAL FULLY DEPRESSED (HISS ON CLUTCH PEDAL RELEASE IS NORMAL FOR GT500 CLUTCH MATERIAL). THESE SYMPTOMS MAY BE DUE TO FLYWHEEL DISTORTION CAUSED BY EXCESSIVE HEAT BUILD-UP DURING UNIQUE TRAFFIC CONDITIONS (EXAMPLE: SEVERE STOP/GO URBAN DRIVING). THE DISTORTION OF THE FLYWHEEL MAY PREVENT COMPLETE DISENGAGEMENT OF THE CLUTCH. THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR PERFORMANCE DRIVING CONDITIONS. FOLLOW THE SERVICE PROCEDURE STEPS TO CORRECT THE CONDITION.

See TSB for complete details

EFFECTIVE DATE: 07/29/2008

GT500_Clutch_drag_TSB_08_16_04.pdf

GT500_Clutch_drag_TSB_08_16_04.pdf

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It is a good reason to question what we have been told by the TSBs and not take it for granted.

 

Here is the logic am having and i invite discussion to challenge it:

 

20442 2007-2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 - CLUTCH CHATTER

SOME 2007 - 2009 SHELBY GT500 MUSTANGS EQUIPPED WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION MAY EXHIBIT A "CLUTCH CHATTER" DURING INITIAL TAKE-OFF OF THE VEHICLE WHEN THE TRANSMISSION IS HOT. THE CLUTCH CHATTER MAY BE PRESENT IN 1ST AND/OR REVERSE GEARS AND IS CONSIDERED A NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC CAUSED BY THE CERAMETALIC CLUTCH LINING. THE CLUTCH CHATTER HAS NO EFFECT ON THE PERFORMANCE OR DURABILITY OF THE VEHICLE. COMPARE TO A LIKE UNIT. IF THE SYMPTOM IS EXCESSIVE COMPARED TO A LIKE UNIT, FOLLOW NORMAL WORKSHOP MANUAL PROCEDURES TO FURTHER DIAGNOSE THE ISSUE.

EFFECTIVE DATE: 09/15/2008

 

Exhibit 1

The TSB above indicates: A: it is a normal chatter in 1st, reverse, B: When transmission is hot

 

 

 

2007-2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 - CLUTCH DRAG

SOME 2007-2009 MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT THE FOLLOWING CLUTCH/TRANS SYMPTOMS: HARD TO DISENGAGE OR ENGAGE 1ST AND REVERSE, HARD TO SHIFT ANY GEAR, GEAR GRINDING DURING SHIFTS ANY GEAR, VEHICLE CREEPS WITH TRANS IN GEAR AND CLUTCH PEDAL FULLY DEPRESSED WITHOUT BRAKE PEDAL APPLICATION, CLUTCH SLIPPAGE IN GEAR WITH CLUTCH PEDAL RELEASED, HISS NOISE WITH CLUTCH PEDAL FULLY DEPRESSED (HISS ON CLUTCH PEDAL RELEASE IS NORMAL FOR GT500 CLUTCH MATERIAL). THESE SYMPTOMS MAY BE DUE TO FLYWHEEL DISTORTION CAUSED BY EXCESSIVE HEAT BUILD-UP DURING UNIQUE TRAFFIC CONDITIONS (EXAMPLE: SEVERE STOP/GO URBAN DRIVING). THE DISTORTION OF THE FLYWHEEL MAY PREVENT COMPLETE DISENGAGEMENT OF THE CLUTCH. THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR PERFORMANCE DRIVING CONDITIONS. FOLLOW THE SERVICE PROCEDURE STEPS TO CORRECT THE CONDITION.

See TSB for complete details

EFFECTIVE DATE: 07/29/2008

 

Exhibit 2

the above TSB calls it abnormal A: when it is difficult to engage in 1st, Revers B: Heat build up is the reason causing distortion of the flywheel

 

 

I invite you to compare A,B in exhibit 1 ..........to A,B in exhibit 2

 

Any one can tell that exhibit 1 is bound to advance to exhibit 2.

 

if the above conclusion is logical....and am confident it is. Hence the question:

 

WHY TO WAIT UNTIL WE GET TO THE LATE STAGE?

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The reason some vehicles are "HARD TO DISENGAGE OR ENGAGE 1ST AND REVERSE"

is because the input shaft is not releasing from the clutch hub fast enough because the syncros remain partially loaded with engine torque. This *can* be caused by corrosion on the inputshaft and clutch hub. If you drive your car alot and live in a dry climate this *seems* to minimize the problem or eliminate it.

 

I had the corrosion on my clutch hub and input shaft. Here's the corrosion I am talking about:

 

th_Clutch-TrannyReplacementparts051.jpg

 

th_Clutch-TrannyReplacementparts033.jpg

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If you are saying that the corrosion is the culprit then it was not addressed by the TSB in exhibit 1.....So that does not address all the owners in the snow belt and in the humid climates like in Florida, California......so forth.

 

What you say does not refer to the Heat build up that i referred to in my post and the strange coincident of normal chatter in 1st/Reverse in exhibit 1 and the difficulty engaging/disengaging 1st/Reverse in exhibit 2

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I'm a simple man. I'm not addressing exhibits like an attorney in a courtroom.

 

I was simply trying to tell you why the clutch drags. The other issue that *can* cause this is the lack of the Teflon lube during assembly.

 

th_Clutch-TrannyReplacementparts053.jpg

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I'm a simple man. I'm not addressing exhibits like an attorney in a courtroom.

 

I was simply trying to tell you why the clutch drags. The other issue that *can* cause this is the lack of the Teflon lube during assembly.

 

th_Clutch-TrannyReplacementparts053.jpg

Am not attorney and i do not know one....that is a fact, it is up to you to believe that or not.

I am putting a good logic and i am trying to explain it simple no more no less.

the point am making is ....it is easy to any one who reads the TSBs you posted to see the contradiction between them.

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Just trying to figure out your mindset and approach to the issues. :headscratch:

 

Nothing I ever tell you is good enough !!! :banghead:

 

I'm very practical in my approach and cut to the point. I guess that's because I have very little schooling and I am a carpenter.

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Just trying to figure out your mindset and approach to the issues. :headscratch:

 

Nothing I ever tell you is good enough !!! :banghead:

 

I'm very practical in my approach and cut to the point. I guess that's because I have very little schooling and I am a carpenter.

Good logic has nothing to do with schooling.

Einstein dropped school

Bill Gates dropped college.

Good logic applies to every profession and every time.

 

And from my heart what ever you tell me is very good enough for me to hear and listen to ....that is a fact.

i hope it is the same for you.

let discussion roll that is healthy situation.

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sooooo... are we talking about this problem of chatter or what feels like the shakes as still occurring after all the TSB repairs have been completed ?

 

And if so , is Ford again saying this is 'norml'

 

Tony,

 

Good to see you on here bud. We've missed you. I understand that you have a drive way that has an incline on it and that when you go to put your car in the garage that you get a little chatter as you ease it up the hill slowly into the garage.

 

Since your car is hot when you do this and it did it pre TSB and post TSB...It sounds like it falls into the "normal" Ford symptom.

 

Hows your car running now that you have the TSB completed ?

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It all boils down to what someonet thinks is normal- in this case I guess Ford decides- much more chatter after tsb and that is not normal- I however am glad to have had it completed as it needed to be completed- in my mind if it gets to be a real problem it will boil down to improper use- poor instalation- or part failure- with all new parts I would guess they would keep saying it is notrmal to have a grabby clutch in fact I think they have Grabber convinced it is a normal issue. It takes some of the fun out of driving it but stuck I am. I report it to the dealer and notes have been made so all I can do now is enjoy the car as much as possible. Avoid inclines in your driveway - avoid stop and go driving- avoid racing and above all enjoy your tsb issues.

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It all boils down to what someonet thinks is normal- in this case I guess Ford decides- much more chatter after tsb and that is not normal- I however am glad to have had it completed as it needed to be completed- in my mind if it gets to be a real problem it will boil down to improper use- poor instalation- or part failure- with all new parts I would guess they would keep saying it is notrmal to have a grabby clutch in fact I think they have Grabber convinced it is a normal issue. It takes some of the fun out of driving it but stuck I am. I report it to the dealer and notes have been made so all I can do now is enjoy the car as much as possible. Avoid inclines in your driveway - avoid stop and go driving- avoid racing and above all enjoy your tsb issues.

Mine does the same, post TSB. I don't baby the clutch anymore and that seems to help.

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It all boils down to what someonet thinks is normal- in this case I guess Ford decides- much more chatter after tsb and that is not normal- I however am glad to have had it completed as it needed to be completed- in my mind if it gets to be a real problem it will boil down to improper use- poor instalation- or part failure- with all new parts I would guess they would keep saying it is notrmal to have a grabby clutch in fact I think they have Grabber convinced it is a normal issue. It takes some of the fun out of driving it but stuck I am. I report it to the dealer and notes have been made so all I can do now is enjoy the car as much as possible. Avoid inclines in your driveway - avoid stop and go driving- avoid racing and above all enjoy your tsb issues.

 

 

Sounds like you will need to build a new house :hysterical: probably cheaper to park the car and leave it there. :hysterical:

 

Seriously, I hope all this resolves it self in a way that we can enjoy the full potential of this car. So far I have no TSB symptoms (only 850 miles), just some very infrequent chatter.

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In my early posts i pointed to a clear contradiction between the two TSBs.

In the older one it says the heat is the problem and difficulty engaging 1st and Reverse are the symptoms.

 

In the new it says the heat build up has nothing to do with it...and chatter in 1st and Reverse are normal

 

Make up your mind Ford.

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:drool:

Just trying to figure out your mindset and approach to the issues. :headscratch:

 

Nothing I ever tell you is good enough !!! :banghead:

 

I'm very practical in my approach and cut to the point. I guess that's because I have very little schooling and I am a carpenter.

Grabber your a carpenter- you can solve my clutch problem and build me a garage and my car can become a garage queen forevermore-
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In my early posts i pointed to a clear contradiction between the two TSBs.

In the older one it says the heat is the problem and difficulty engaging 1st and Reverse are the symptoms.

 

In the new it says the heat build up has nothing to do with it...and chatter in 1st and Reverse are normal

 

Make up your mind Ford.

 

Please get your facts straight. There has only been one TSB ever issued for the GT500 clutch issue.

 

Here it is for your easy reference.

GT500_Clutch_drag_TSB_08_16_04.pdf

GT500_Clutch_drag_TSB_08_16_04.pdf

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Please look in your post 1 and post 2 am quoting your posts.....

 

Neither one of those messages in post number 1 are TSB's. They are simply messages from Ford to the dealers telling them information on what's normal. They are both on different types of symptoms for 2 different parts.

 

 

Post number 2 references the one and only TSB for the issue.

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Neither one of those messages in post number 1 are TSB's. They are simply messages from Ford to the dealers telling them information on what's normal. They are both on different types of symptoms for 2 different parts.

 

 

Post number 2 references the one and only TSB for the issue.

Ok......rename it to message from ford to dealers instead of TSB, big deal :doh: .....when will you look at the substance ?

after all those are instructions on how to deal with our cars....we have the right to question them when we see contradiction.

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Ok......rename it to message from ford to dealers instead of TSB, big deal :doh: .....when will you look at the substance ?

after all those are instructions on how to deal with our cars....we have the right to question them when we see contradiction.

 

Sorry, I feel for you, many have failed to see the substance in many of my posts.

 

Technically, everything Grabber said is true, but I understand your concern and issues as it is confusing, and I am with you in theory, that you can't always look at things so literally.

 

This site tends to be very black and white, there is no gray I guess

 

this is not a bash on Grabber as he knows best for TSBs and many other issues with our cars but I feel for your aggrevation

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Dr. S

 

The messages tell the dealers what's normal and what's to be expected.

 

The TSB tells the dealer how to fix the car if it's not acting normal.

 

The TSB is a solid, tested engineered repair that corrects the problem.

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Ford can write whatever they want but does that mean that clutch chatter is normal in our cars- it means they can say it is normal to avoid a portion of the tsb- Grabber lucked out but a lot of us did not. I can blame some of the problems to workmanship but not when the same dealers have a good job and a suspect job from the same tech. Is it really normal in your mind to have a car that chatters on take off or has some minor symptons of the tsb that the dealer can call normal. If you manufacured the car and sold it would you believe it was normal. It had to be an engineering error in design. The dealer did not ask me if I wanted a smooth clutch or a high performance clutch- they had to know somewhere down the road way before the tsb that they had a problem- likely at a board meeting when financial issues were on the horizon and someone in engineering was ignored. In my business if we scewd up we fessed up and solved the problem. Somehow some way down the road someone will spill the beans- Our clutch systems are not normal and do not act normal. SVT told me to drive my 03 Cobra like it was stolen- while I drive my gt 500 now like I am in hot pursuit- People still say have you modded your car and I say ford has put an experimental clutch in my car and I am testing it for them to be sure it is normal. When I stop at the ford dealer to le them know things are the same it is like walking into home depot and having eveyone that works there make a huge v to get out of your way for fear they might have to help you.

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