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SAI offered S/c's for 07 SGT


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So I am trying to decide which s/c system would be the best for my car. An 07 5-speed.

 

KB seems like the most hp/tq, but whats up with the filter location and the rain, I am in the PNW and I drive in the rain alot.

 

Decisions, decisions, decisions....

 

Any help would be appreciated.

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With the KB out that only leaves the Whipple and Paxton. Dave C has the paxton and loves it as well as other's. People who choose the Whipple love the Whipple. You really are in a "win-win" situation. Seems to be personal preference.

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KB seems like the most hp/tq, but whats up with the filter location and the rain, I am in the PNW and I drive in the rain alot.

I went and looked at my KB filter and I am not at all sure that it is an issue in the rain (of course, living in a desert I would hardly be able to prove my point). If I am correct, the concern would be spray from the road or tires hitting the filter. If that is the concern I don't think the spray could get up to it as it is forward of the tires and the spray from the tires would be heading to the rear. Has anyone with a KB tested it in the wet? The good news, as Roger said, is that you cannot lose on this deal, no matter what you choose.

Jim

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Yeah guys I guess I should have asked IF the water spray is an issue with the KB, I like the look of the KB. And the extra 40lbs of TQ from the KB makes me take notice, as it is TQ that you really feel.

 

I do not know if it is an issue with the road water, but it was mentioned here at one point in another thread.

 

I love the heritage of the paxton and it is a little more than 2k cheaper than the KB.

 

Is 40 lbs TQ worth 2k, hard to say for me right now...

 

Did they decide to put underhood add on tags for the s/c at SAI like they had debated?

 

69 I would probably only have SAI do it for the registry and the experience and to support the company. I am also not wanting to tear apart a new car when I am not familiar with.

 

So in my mind:

 

KB: looks cool, best performance, most cash, expandable hp level in future. Do not like the husky brand oil seperator hanging off the side, still can use V-6 strutbar.

 

Whipple: least looks IMO (but still looks great), med perf. med price. No strut bar so its out for me.

 

Paxton: Looks very cool, nostalgia, but not upgradable in hp level. 2k left over for wheels (hehe)

 

Is there that much of a difference between the paxton and the KB cars in driver feel?

 

Am I getting it right?

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Clark as an aside do you know what the psi is you are running and what the max psi is on the KB (assuming forged internals) before belt slip or another issue pops up?

 

I have a weiand 177 on a BB chev and the psi is limited on that 177 by the serp. belt and the charge getting to hot and the blower spinning too fast for its design speed.

 

 

My understanding is that the KB can have the psi pumped up alot higher without these issues....assuming the bottom end is built. (A guys gotta think ahead you know)...

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Iam running stage2 KB and they say that Iam getting 511rwhp, 10psi with a automatic, It doesnt feel like it, but it feels very strong and pulls very hard, I think it is in the tune. One thing I noticed, Do not power brake your car over 2g rpm

cause bad things can/will happen. Rick

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Is there that much of a difference between the paxton and the KB cars in driver feel?

ShelbyPilot (Chris VanHorn) has the Paxton and I have the KB. We plan to get the cars together and let Chris drive both and report back to everyone on how they differ. That will not happen for a while, though.

Jim

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Is 40 lbs TQ worth 2k, hard to say for me right now...

 

KB: looks cool, best performance, most cash, expandable hp level in future. Do not like the husky brand oil seperator hanging off the side, still can use V-6 strutbar.

 

Whipple: least looks IMO (but still looks great), med perf. med price. No strut bar so its out for me.

 

Paxton: Looks very cool, nostalgia, but not upgradable in hp level. 2k left over for wheels (hehe)

 

Am I getting it right?

I agree with Roger's comment above… it is a win-win; there really are no bad choices.

 

In all cases the extra torque tends to be more than the rear wheels can put to the ground with street tires. You will be spinning your tires in 3rd gear if you really punch it with any of the SC options so you may not really be using the maximum torque anyway. It's nice to have but you won't necessarily go any faster than someone with less torque/hp.

 

With Mickey Thomson ET Street drag tires at 15 psi I can launch as hard as I want and they totally stick like they are glued to the track, there is not even a chirp from the tires. So that is a case where extra torque would help but the stock drive train components (clutch, transmission, driveshaft, differential, axels) will suffer if you abuse them.

 

With higher HP upgrades on any of the SC's it would be a good idea to upgrade the bottom end and drive train components. For example, the stock manual transmission is only rated at 360 ft/lbs of torque.

 

By the way, the Paxton is upgradeable much like the others. The absolute max HP may not be as high as others but you could easily get to over 600 HP (the Novi 1200 blower is rated to 680 HP) with the Paxton using a smaller pulley, bigger injectors, high volume fuel pump, increased rev limiter, custom tune, etc… If you want to go higher than that you might want to consider just building a new motor.

 

No matter which way you go you will be blown away by the difference in the before/after performance…

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I am freshly back from the Terlingua event, which included a 350 mile "Bullrun" road course. I don't have a blower, and after this weekend, I'm not sure I want one.

 

A pleasant mixture of supercharged and N/A Shelbys, to say this was an eye opening experience is an understatement. The GT 500s left me in the dust in straight roads, but I caught them everytime in the twisties, even passed a few. Moreover, running at speed for 350 miles generates a lot of engine heat, more that any blower kit can handle for that length of time. Heat soak will degrade performance, and the harder you push it, the worse it gets.

 

Guess what I'm trying to say is that before you drop the coins on a blower, have a reason to buy it. Get out and DRIVE your Shelby! It's more fun (and very capable of the challenge in N/A trim) than you can imagine.

 

If you do buy a blower, keep the boost conservative.

 

Just my .02C, carry on gents.

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I agree with Roger's comment above… it is a win-win; there really are no bad choices.

 

With higher HP upgrades on any of the SC's it would be a good idea to upgrade the bottom end and drive train components. For example, the stock manual transmission is only rated at 360 ft/lbs of torque.

 

Really?

I hadn't heard that. Waht are people out there doing with @450hp on stock trannies? Have people done this upgrade?

Dan

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Really?

I hadn't heard that. Waht are people out there doing with @450hp on stock trannies? Have people done this upgrade?

Dan

 

Most SC S197 Mustang GT's (including the SGT) with over 400 ft/lbs of torque are rarely exceeding the 360 ft/lb manual transmission rating.

 

However, I have seen 2 SC Mustang GT's break their transmissions (syncros in both cases) within the last 6 months at the track. I don't think it is that uncommon if you are driving the car hard.

 

GT 500's have a manual transmission (6 speed) rated at 600 ft/lbs of torque. That would be a nice upgrade for an SGT but expensive for the parts and different splines on the output shaft would require a different driveshaft.

 

You can buy a new take off replacement transmission for $699 so that would be about a ¼ the price of upgrading :

 

http://www.newtakeoff.com/mustanggtmanualtransmission2005-2008.aspx

 

I personally think the stock manual transmission is the weakest link in the SC cars; I've heard of people breaking the drive shafts off of S197 Mustang GT's also (with a lot of collateral damage) but have never seen it in person. Obviously you can also do major engine damage by pushing the power envelope too far.

 

If you want to play you gotta pay, there is no way to keep putting power adders on a car without eventually breaking something. The cost of making these types of modifications is high and there is little or no re-sale payoff.

 

For me it's just fun and I love the performance of the car. But I try to keep a realistic outlook on the inevitable breakage that comes with the increase in performance.

 

This is a fact of life in all forms of racing. There is a reason you see people pulling trailers full of tools and spare parts to track events (drag strip, road racing, autocross).

 

If you supercharge the car and don't push it too hard you can avoid a lot of these problems but what's the point of having all the performance bottled up if you don't use it?

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Lulu is right. You can hang with the slightly bigger horses with no problem unless the road is long and straight and flat. Then those bigger legs get around you.

 

We were thinking about adding an SC to our SGT daily driver.

We talked to Carroll at Terlingua. He said it didn't need it. We're going to listen to Carroll.

 

Yes you'll get more power, but how often will you use it?

 

Just another $.02

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Lulu is right. You can hang with the slightly bigger horses with no problem unless the road is long and straight and flat. Then those bigger legs get around you.

 

We were thinking about adding an SC to our SGT daily driver.

We talked to Carroll at Terlingua. He said it didn't need it. We're going to listen to Carroll.

 

Yes you'll get more power, but how often will you use it?

 

Just another $.02

 

 

Hmmmmm....I can't understand why he'd say that. Really? Why would a mans man and a driver of fast cars say the car did not need a SC or more HP? Please respond.

Swede

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I am freshly back from the Terlingua event, which included a 350 mile "Bullrun" road course. I don't have a blower, and after this weekend, I'm not sure I want one.

 

A pleasant mixture of supercharged and N/A Shelbys, to say this was an eye opening experience is an understatement. The GT 500s left me in the dust in straight roads, but I caught them everytime in the twisties, even passed a few. Moreover, running at speed for 350 miles generates a lot of engine heat, more that any blower kit can handle for that length of time. Heat soak will degrade performance, and the harder you push it, the worse it gets.

 

Guess what I'm trying to say is that before you drop the coins on a blower, have a reason to buy it. Get out and DRIVE your Shelby! It's more fun (and very capable of the challenge in N/A trim) than you can imagine.

 

If you do buy a blower, keep the boost conservative.

 

Just my .02C, carry on gents.

 

+1 8500 miles back and forth to the bingo hall now hehe!

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I am freshly back from the Terlingua event, which included a 350 mile "Bullrun" road course. I don't have a blower, and after this weekend, I'm not sure I want one.

 

A pleasant mixture of supercharged and N/A Shelbys, to say this was an eye opening experience is an understatement. The GT 500s left me in the dust in straight roads, but I caught them everytime in the twisties, even passed a few. Moreover, running at speed for 350 miles generates a lot of engine heat, more that any blower kit can handle for that length of time. Heat soak will degrade performance, and the harder you push it, the worse it gets.

 

Guess what I'm trying to say is that before you drop the coins on a blower, have a reason to buy it. Get out and DRIVE your Shelby! It's more fun (and very capable of the challenge in N/A trim) than you can imagine.

 

If you do buy a blower, keep the boost conservative.

 

Just my .02C, carry on gents.

 

 

LuLu, are you recommending more NA mods such as cam, heads, headers, drive shaft, and tune which would bring it to about 400 HP and increased torque?

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LuLu, are you recommending more NA mods such as cam, heads, headers, drive shaft, and tune which would bring it to about 400 HP and increased torque?

About all that is left for me to consider is cams, I've done all the other things you mention. I don't agree that 400 HP is possible on the 4.6L-3V without a power adder, and if I was chasing that number I would start with a 5.4L-4V and build from there.

 

The tradeoff with improved cams is a loss of low rpm torque, and I'm not sure I want to trade right now. I also am considering 4:10s. As she sits now, LuLu can chase down a GT 500 in the twisties using 3rd and 4th gears, and staying between 3000 to 5500 RPMs, and engine temps never broke 205 degrees in Texas weather. Like I said, Terlingua and the Bullrun was an eye opener, the SGT rocks!

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About all that is left for me to consider is cams, I've done all the other things you mention. I don't agree that 400 HP is possible on the 4.6L-3V without a power adder, and if I was chasing that number I would start with a 5.4L-4V and build from there.

 

The tradeoff with improved cams is a loss of low rpm torque, and I'm not sure I want to trade right now. I also am considering 4:10s. As she sits now, LuLu can chase down a GT 500 in the twisties using 3rd and 4th gears, and staying between 3000 to 5500 RPMs, and engine temps never broke 205 degrees in Texas weather. Like I said, Terlingua and the Bullrun was an eye opener, the SGT rocks!

 

Are you saying the 4.6 s/c'd cars overheated?

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About all that is left for me to consider is cams, I've done all the other things you mention. I don't agree that 400 HP is possible on the 4.6L-3V without a power adder, and if I was chasing that number I would start with a 5.4L-4V and build from there.

 

The tradeoff with improved cams is a loss of low rpm torque, and I'm not sure I want to trade right now. I also am considering 4:10s. As she sits now, LuLu can chase down a GT 500 in the twisties using 3rd and 4th gears, and staying between 3000 to 5500 RPMs, and engine temps never broke 205 degrees in Texas weather. Like I said, Terlingua and the Bullrun was an eye opener, the SGT rocks!

 

LuLu, if we are starting off with 320 (319) add 50 for the racing heads and cams, 10 for the headers and 10 (equivalent ) for the drive shaft. That is 390. I am sure you could get an extra 10 from a tune. 400 HP and more than stock torque. Less impact and less weight than a blower. You would also have to overcome the weight of the blower and intercooler. Your thoughts? It is not the 500 from a Whipple or Paxton, KB but I would think our cars would do just fine with 400 HP. Less stress on the driveline including the tranny, differential, etc. Your thoughts?

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LuLu, if we are starting off with 320 (319) add 50 for the racing heads and cams, 10 for the headers and 10 (equivalent ) for the drive shaft. That is 390. I am sure you could get an extra 10 from a tune. 400 HP and more than stock torque. Less impact and less weight than a blower. You would also have to overcome the weight of the blower and intercooler. Your thoughts? It is not the 500 from a Whipple or Paxton, KB but I would think our cars would do just fine with 400 HP. Less stress on the driveline including the tranny, differential, etc. Your thoughts?

Thanks for the math lesson, but it doesn't work that way in reality. I don't think in or act upon brake HP numbers...Meaningless to me. I watch the rear wheel numbers, what actually goes to the ground. Heads and cams will produce more power after 3000 RPM, but I cannot see how the usual engine mods will approach 400 RWHP. Maybe 325-335 at best.

 

Stock 197 degree thermostat in play at Shelby's Terlingua Bullrun. 197 to 200 in cruise mode, no more than 205 in race mode. Anyone runing more than 210 has a cooling issue to address. Moreover, if you are running hot, this should be reflected in MPG values. Hot engine temps will increase the AFR to cool the combustion process, and your MPG will suffer. On the road to Terlingua and back, I got 30+ MPG @ 70 MPH, 26+ MPG cruising around town, and 22+ MPG during the Bullrun. I credit this performance to a detailed custom dyno tune from Simpson Performance.

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LuLu, I was referring to 400 flywheel HP, just like the 319 flywheel HP that we are supposed to start with. We were talking apples and oranges.

Yes, we are. You may be4 the apple, But I'm an orange...Maybe a lemon, because my favorite second color is now Terlingua "Gawd-Awful" yellow.

Why did you replace the thermostat and go back to stock when you were going South to Texas and racin'?

One word...Octane.

 

LuLu drinks 93 octane while crusing her local turf. But, 93 octane isn't widely available outside of Illinois. In fact, 93 octane is not available even in southern Illinois, and not at all throughout Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas. Best I could get OTR was 91 octane, and not always that. Mostly 87 and 89 octane, and not much more.

 

By the time LuLu arrived in Terlingua, her EEC's adaptive memory adjusted to the lower octane, and I expected/belived that her 4.6L-3V N/A would run better a tad warmer. I feel I made a good choice to restore the 197 degree t-stat, and LuLu ran very bold through sustained (some times as long as 45 minutes to an hour) of 140 MPH romps. I may not have beaten down a GT 500/Supercharged SGT, but LuLu made them sweat and sweat heavy for their victorories. I am very proud of her performance in this event.

 

While down among Shelby enthuiasts from around the world in Terlingua, I captured a few moments of Caroll's time. We talked about a lot of stuff, mostly race car drivers we commonly knew. But, Caroll left me with this specific point. "You don't need a supercharger to be a champion. You own a Shelby GT, drive it and that's champion enough in your class."

 

Wise words? Indeed. Class? Caroll Shelby has it. The SGT was designed and produced to be competitive in road racing, not drag racing, or, any "stop light Gran Prix". Considering my experience from driving LuLu over 3500 miles OTR and into a Bullrun event, Caroll is/was right. The SGT cuts corners and takes turns no other productiion/street legal automobile can challenge.

 

I love it when a plan comes together...

 

Be safe, gents.

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Yes, we are. You may be4 the apple, But I'm an orange...Maybe a lemon, because my favorite second color is now Terlingua "Gawd-Awful" yellow.

 

One word...Octane.

 

LuLu drinks 93 octane while crusing her local turf. But, 93 octane isn't widely available outside of Illinois. In fact, 93 octane is not available even in southern Illinois, and not at all throughout Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas. Best I could get OTR was 91 octane, and not always that. Mostly 87 and 89 octane, and not much more.

 

By the time LuLu arrived in Terlingua, her EEC's adaptive memory adjusted to the lower octane, and I expected/belived that her 4.6L-3V N/A would run better a tad warmer. I feel I made a good choice to restore the 197 degree t-stat, and LuLu ran very bold through sustained (some times as long as 45 minutes to an hour) of 140 MPH romps. I may not have beaten down a GT 500/Supercharged SGT, but LuLu made them sweat and sweat heavy for their victorories. I am very proud of her performance in this event.

 

While down among Shelby enthuiasts from around the world in Terlingua, I captured a few moments of Caroll's time. We talked about a lot of stuff, mostly race car drivers we commonly knew. But, Caroll left me with this specific point. "You don't need a supercharger to be a champion. You own a Shelby GT, drive it and that's champion enough in your class."

 

Wise words? Indeed. Class? Caroll Shelby has it. The SGT was designed and produced to be competitive in road racing, not drag racing, or, any "stop light Gran Prix". Considering my experience from driving LuLu over 3500 miles OTR and into a Bullrun event, Caroll is/was right. The SGT cuts corners and takes turns no other productiion/street legal automobile can challenge.

 

I love it when a plan comes together...

 

Be safe, gents.

 

Did you get any kudo's from the GT500 guys when you were on their butts or were they just stand-off after any competitions. Do the GT500 guys respect the Shelby GT? Or do they think they are heads & tails above the stock Shelby GT?

Just curious-

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Did you get any kudo's from the GT500 guys when you were on their butts or were they just stand-off after any competitions. Do the GT500 guys respect the Shelby GT? Or do they think they are heads & tails above the stock Shelby GT?

Just curious-

 

Dave,

 

I think the SC'ed GT's are earning the respect of many owner's both GT-500 and other's. While attending SAAC 33 in NJ this year Gary P and Gary D took out the White 07 Whipple car for some on track time and when they returned there were many people looking over the car in disbelief. They thought it is a stock Shelby GT. This statement happened more than a few times: "There is no way that is a stock GT!" It was kind of cool to see so many asking if the car was stock.

 

Naturally they were all told it has a "Little Supercharger under the hood" ;)

 

Roger

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I was playing with a black with vapor stripes GT500 the other day. I wasn't having any trouble hanging with him and when we stopped at a light he asked what was up with that. He saw my SGT/SC stripes and asked what I had done. We stopped at a 7-11 up the road and I showed him my SC setup and we looked over his very nice GT500. He was impressed and very friendly. He said he wasn't on this forum yet but might check it out. So I know at least one guy who thinks our SGTs are as nice as the GT500.

 

Don

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Dave,

 

I think the SC'ed GT's are earning the respect of many owner's both GT-500 and other's. While attending SAAC 33 in NJ this year Gary P and Gary D took out the White 07 Whipple car for some on track time and when they returned there were many people looking over the car in disbelief. They thought it is a stock Shelby GT. This statement happened more than a few times: "There is no way that is a stock GT!" It was kind of cool to see so many asking if the car was stock.

 

Naturally they were all told it has a "Little Supercharger under the hood" ;)

 

Roger

 

Roger - I have engaged Bud about the SC and plan on upgrading after the first of the year. That will complete my dream car, but I am sure that something else I will want to do once that is done.

So my wish list is:

1) SC (paxton or KB don't know yet. Leaning toward a KB but am waiting the results on the testing.)

2) gauges

3) brake ducts

4) driving lights

5) big brakes

Hey maybe Sue and I will meet you at the BB this year, if your going :hysterical: . She really wants to go.

 

Dave

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