TSB 08-16-04 Repair Gone Wrong

[Willie]

Long story short.... I just received a call from the dealership where my car has been for three weeks. There is yet one more delay after three so far. I was given a choice:

 

1) Order more parts for the tranny. Estimated repair completion: One more week. Or

2) Replace the tranny. Four days estimated completion time.

 

Question:

My original (disassembled) tranny is a TUET 5800. I have the tag in my possession. If I choose to replace, will it be a TUET 8175? If so, are there any internal differences?

 

Concern:

My car will no longer be numbers matching. This is critical as far as a future collectible.

 

What would you do?

[Son of GT]

Long story short.... I just received a call from the dealership where my car has been for three weeks. There is yet one more delay after three so far. I was given a choice:

 

1) Order more parts for the tranny. Estimated repair completion: One more week. Or

2) Replace the tranny. Four days estimated completion time.

 

Question:

My original (disassembled) tranny is a TUET 5800. I have the tag in my possession. If I choose to replace, will it be a TUET 8175? If so, are there any internal differences?

 

Concern:

My car will no longer be numbers matching. This is critical as far as a future collectible.

 

What would you do?

Wille, have them replace the tranny. The internals of the 8175 match what they would replace in your 5800. And with respect to the matching numbers issue, there really isn't one. I have attended numerious Barrett-Jackson, Mecum, and Kruse auctions in my life, and there is absolutely no value to having matching numbers with regards to the transmission. Engine S/N and VIN, most definately, but the transmission's numbers have never come into question, and no one cares about them with respect to collectabilty.

[CRQuarto]

Wille, have them replace the tranny. The internals of the 8175 match what they would replace in your 5800. And with respect to the matching numbers issue, there really isn't one. I have attended numerious Barrett-Jackson, Mecum, and Kruse auctions in my life, and there is absolutely no value to having matching numbers with regards to the transmission. Engine S/N and VIN, most definately, but the transmission's numbers have never come into question, and no one cares about them with respect to collectiabilty.

 

Agreed. Replace the tranny, I am going to try to go that route after the dealer neglected to replace my master/slave cylinders the first go round, and now I am worried that the tranny has just had the crap beat out of it with all the wear and tear this issue has caused. Get the new tranny, save yourself a future problem and get some piece of mind.

[Grabber]

Agreed. Replace the tranny, I am going to try to go that route after the dealer neglected to replace my master/slave cylinders the first go round, and now I am worried that the tranny has just had the crap beat out of it with all the wear and tear this issue has caused. Get the new tranny, save yourself a future problem and get some piece of mind.

 

The CSC bearing is not called out to be replaced on the TSB. There is no problem with the current CSC bearing design. It works fine as designed.

[Grabber]

Let them put the new tranny in your car.

 

Like Sonny said.....it has all the latest whiz bangs.

[LuckySnake]

I agree about placed value to the engine s/n matching the VIN, in the late model GT500 s , the engine s/n s do not match the VIN and the only way to prove your car has matching number car is through documentation.

I respectfully disagree about "no value" to a numbers matching transmission. There are several groups of classic car collectors that go into detail about how to check for a correct s/n or stamped VIN to a particular vehicles transmission. I place value on a numbers matching transmission and so do others collectors, I don't think it's as important to have the numbers matching transmission installed as long as you still have it for the car.

I think it doesn't mean anything to some people not having a numbers matching transmission or correct markings to the original drive train, but it does to me and could make a difference at any given time to me and other people I know, including other respectable people I know that post here .

Any car person would agree that a matching numbers engine is more important than a matching numbers transmission, better to both IMO. I am not an authority on vehicle serial numbers, don't claim to be one.

[kevhead20]

Let them put the new tranny in your car.

 

Like Sonny said.....it has all the latest whiz bangs.

 

 

Um....what is a whiz bang

[Grabber]

Um....what is a whiz bang

 

Study up and read this book and you will know all about whiz bangs.

 

Sheesh.

 

[kevhead20]

Study up and read this book and you will know all about whiz bangs.

 

Sheesh.

 

 

 

It had better have pictures or I don't think I will be able to get through it :happy feet:

[fastfords]

Long story short.... I just received a call from the dealership where my car has been for three weeks. There is yet one more delay after three so far. I was given a choice:

 

1) Order more parts for the tranny. Estimated repair completion: One more week. Or

2) Replace the tranny. Four days estimated completion time.

 

Question:

My original (disassembled) tranny is a TUET 5800. I have the tag in my possession. If I choose to replace, will it be a TUET 8175? If so, are there any internal differences?

 

Concern:

My car will no longer be numbers matching. This is critical as far as a future collectible.

 

What would you do?

 

What dealer is doing the repair? Pm me with the name if you don't want to say here. A friend of my bil is having trouble with his 07' and is not sure where to take it. Hope all turns out well for you.

[Son of GT]

I agree about placed value to the engine s/n matching the VIN, in the late model GT500 s , the engine s/n s do not match the VIN and the only way to prove your car has matching number car is through documentation.

I respectfully disagree about "no value" to a numbers matching transmission. There are several groups of classic car collectors that go into detail about how to check for a correct s/n or stamped VIN to a particular vehicles transmission. I place value on a numbers matching transmission and so do others collectors, I don't think it's as important to have the numbers matching transmission installed as long as you still have it for the car.

I think it doesn't mean anything to some people not having a numbers matching transmission or correct markings to the original drive train, but it does to me and could make a difference at any given time to me and other people I know, including other respectable people I know that post here .

Any car person would agree that a matching numbers engine is more important than a matching numbers transmission, better to both IMO. I am not an authority on vehicle serial numbers, don't claim to be one.

 

Respectively Lucky, based on my knowledge and experience regarding this matter as a former two time judge at the Monterey Concours D' Elegance several years ago, I will just say that we must agree to disagree with our opinions on this matter to a certain degree.

 

Having a correct matching type and brand of transmission in the car has value and is important, but having the exact transmission that originally came with the car does not UNLESS we are talking about pre WWII cars like a 36' Packard V12 and the like. In those instances I completely agree that there is a tremendous value and advantage for those cars to have their original and complete drivetrains intact, but when your talking about the majority of post WWII cars, especally a 2007 to 2010 Shelby GT500 that utilizes a common 6060 Tremec transmission; the same transmission that Dodge installs in the Viper and as of two weeks ago the Dodge Challenger too, I still maintain my position that that not having the exact transmisison that came with your 500 will not take away any future value from it.

 

Carroll's one-time, 427 Super Snake Cobra that sold at auction for 5 million dollars last year originally came with a 4-speed manual transmission that Shelby American changed to an automatic during it's conversation to a Super Snake Cobra; and that's how that car was configured during the period of time that Carroll owned the car. If the second owner of his car had the automatic removed and replaced back to a 4-speed, even if it was documented, that would have significantly affected the overall value of that car. On the other hand, if the original automatic transmission blew up and the owner replaced it with a period-correct and exact type of automatic transmission that blew up, that would not have been an issue with any buyer at auction, because that's exactly what happened with that car. The original automatic in the car was toasted several years ago, and the owner installed a period-correct replacement automatic transmission in the car and documented the repair work as such.

[LuckySnake]

I know you are correct about the correct type transmission being allot more important than matching numbers.

Not to stray off the subject to far, I wish the S197 GT500 had the engine block identified by VIN.

[Son of GT]

I know you are correct about the correct type transmission being allot more important than matching numbers.

Not to stray off the subject to far, I wish the S197 GT500 had the engine block identified by VIN.

Yeah, just like it used to be in the old days; I completely agree.

[Grabber]

Riddle me this Batman.

 

The Ford GT40 super car and the GT500 are the only cars that Ford takes the time to stamp the vins in the trannys.

Why do they do it ?

[CRQuarto]

The CSC bearing is not called out to be replaced on the TSB. There is no problem with the current CSC bearing design. It works fine as designed.

 

Err, Rob, I never mentioned the CSC bearing sir...I had suggested to the dealership they take a look at the master/slave cylinder when they did my TSB work and when I got the car back I had assumed they did as requested. Turns out they didn't as my master/slave cylinder (one or both) may be going out and making the clutch drag rear it's ugly head again.

[Grabber]

Err, Rob, I never mentioned the CSC bearing sir...I had suggested to the dealership they take a look at the master/slave cylinder when they did my TSB work and when I got the car back I had assumed they did as requested. Turns out they didn't as my master/slave cylinder (one or both) may be going out and making the clutch drag rear it's ugly head again.

 

The CSC bearing is the Concentric Slave Cylinder.

[cobraracing]

1. Warranty tracking, many T5 trans were swapped into cars that had warranty in the fox body era

2. Theft deterrent, engines have had stamps on them for as long as i can remember

3. to confuse team shelby members on a Saturday morning

Riddle me this Batman.

 

The Ford GT40 super car and the GT500 are the only cars that Ford takes the time to stamp the vins in the trannys.

Why do they do it ?

[Willie]

Thanks for all the replies. I have informed the dealership that I will accept a replacement.

 

So Grabber, you say both the engine and tranny have the VIN stamped onto them? Where exactly?

 

I'm surprised no one has asked why I was given this choice. To keep it somewhat brief, I believe it was because of a dealership screw-up. Read on:

 

When the tranny was disassembled, they noticed the second gear needed replacing. It was ordered. A three day delay. Upon reassembly, it was discovered that a pressed in bushing (into the bellhousing) that supports the internal shifter shaft, was "dislocated". The hole for this bushing is ~1.4-inches deep. The bushing itself is ~0.5-inches deep. I was told the bushing should be pressed in flush with the hole. It was pushed in all the way. The shaft itself is inserted into the bushing ~0.8 inches. This means that it was not riding in the bushing at all. At least this is what I was told. I suspect I was lied to; that the bushing was accidentally damaged somehow. In any case, the parts guy found the bushing is not a serviceable part, that the entire bellhousing had to be replaced which includes the bushing. Yep, an $800 part vs. a $2 part. A four day delay. Once it arrived, the tech noticed that the bellhousing has more pressed in bushings that are not included with the bellhousing. Because my original bushings are not removable and reusable in a different bellhousing, they must be ordered cause yet another four day delay. Again, this is what I was told. Well, it was at this time when the service department DIRECTOR called me and gave me the choice of replacement. This all sounds a little fishy. Why should the dealership soak up the cost of a new $3500 tranny when all that's needed are a few more bushings, unless it was majorly screwed up?? It just doesn't add up.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing. When I asked the tranny tech last week how many TR6060s he's worked on prior to mine, the answer was, "Yours is the first one." Ouch...... I can only surmise that the reason why I was given a choice is because these boys are incompetent and don't know what they are doing. What do you guys think?

 

(Fastfords you have a PM.)

 

("shelbypowered", if you're reading this thread, you may want to think long and hard about taking your car to this dealership. I talked to your service advisor a couple of days ago and he indicated your car is next."

 

Willie

[shelbypowered]

 

The CSC bearing is the Concentric Slave Cylinder.

can you explain what this could have to do with the clutch issue- my low fluid light comes on when the car is hot and goes away when it cools down- never low on fluid however- rs

[shelbypowered]

Thanks for all the replies. I have informed the dealership that I will accept a replacement.

 

So Grabber, you say both the engine and tranny have the VIN stamped onto them? Where exactly?

 

I'm surprised no one has asked why I was given this choice. To keep it somewhat brief, I believe it was because of a dealership screw-up. Read on:

 

When the tranny was disassembled, they noticed the second gear needed replacing. It was ordered. A three day delay. Upon reassembly, it was discovered that a pressed in bushing (into the bellhousing) that supports the internal shifter shaft, was "dislocated". The hole for this pushing is ~1.4-inches deep. The bushing itself is ~0.5-inches deep. I was told the bushing should be pressed in flush with the hole. It was pushed in all the way. The shaft itself is inserted into the bushing ~0.8 inches. This means that it was not riding in the bushing at all. At least this is what I was told. I suspect I was lied to; that the bushing was accidentally damaged somehow. In any case, the parts guy found the bushing is not a serviceable part, that the entire bellhousing had to be replaced which includes the bushing. Yep, an $800 part vs. a $2 part. A four day delay. Once it arrived, the tech noticed that the bellhousing has more pressed in bushings that are not included with the bellhousing. Because my original bushings are not removable and reusable in a different bellhousing, they must be ordered cause yet another four day delay. Again, this is what I was told. Well, it was at this time when the service department manager called me and gave me the choice of replacement. This all sounds a little fishy. Why should the dealership soak up the cost of a new $3500 tranny when all that's needed are a few more bushings?? It just doesn't add up.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing. When I asked the tranny tech last week how many TR6060s he's worked on prior to mine, the answer was, "Yours is the first one." Ouch...... I can only surmise that the reason why I was given a choice is because these boys are incompetent and don't know what they are doing. What do you guys think?

 

(Fastfords you have a PM.)

 

("shelbypowered", if you're reading this thread, you may want to think long and hard about taking your car to this dealership. I talked to your service advisor a couple of days ago and he indicated your car is next."

 

Willie

I may back out but they have all the parts so I may have to fib a little - if they can so can I- I follow your threads and just now reading yours I do not know what to do- suppose to have the car there on Monday. rs- try to call you but your security is on strong and you likely have enough on your mind rs

[BanditSRT8]

Numbers matching blah, blah, blah....

 

As long as you have proper documentation of the tranny replacement, and that shows that it was done BY Ford, you won't have any value issues.

 

So get it replaced, get tons of official documentation, and you're good to go.

[CRQuarto]

The CSC bearing is the Concentric Slave Cylinder.

 

Ahh, gotcha. Well, I know there were a couple people here that had theirs go out, and that would cause clutch drag for me as I have already had the TSB done, so my issue should have been resolved. If one or both of the cylinders is out, then the clutch would not be disengaging all the way. That is my understanding at least, correct me if I am wrong. I was told that the clutch drag prior to the TSB repairs could put undue stress on the cylinders and cause them to wear out, granted this is not always the case, but it is a possibility. I am hoping that is what my problem is, as even with the nickel flywheel I am having clutch drag again. Hopefully they will fix the problem, and just give me a whole new tranny after all the abuse this one has seen with this damn problem.

[shelbypowered]

 

The CSC bearing is the Concentric Slave Cylinder.

laymans laguage on this one- what does it do and what are the issues- sorry the slave word being married I understand but the rest of post very lost rs

[Grabber]

laymans laguage on this one- what does it do and what are the issues- sorry the slave word being married I understand but the rest of post very lost rs

 

The CSC bearing is a fancy name for what used to be called the throw out bearing.

 

Here's pic's of it:

[Grabber]

Willie,

 

Just the tranny has the vin # stamped in it.

 

It's next to the fill plug. The last 8 numbers.

 

Here's the location:

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...c=34227&hl=