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Here's the link for it. I called and Moss says that you should truthfully expect gains of 10-12 hp and that the power will be between shifts rather than top end.

 

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Quite a sales pitch, eh?

 

"Street and Performance Electronics, the first company to develop the throttle body spacer that delivers improved power, performance, and economy has achieved a design breakthrough! Engineers at Street and Performance Electronics have developed a new generation design that provides even better performance and economy! Utilizing multiple aerodynamic principles, the Helix Power Tower Plus produces air breakup and turbulence that yields greater fuel burn efficiency, which translates into the best performing and efficient product of its type in the marketplace! The Helix Power Tower Plus comes with all the installation hardware you need. Installation is simple and may be done in as little as 45 minutes. In no time you will experience the thrill of better performance from your engine.

Features:

· Precision machined from solid T-6061 billet aluminum for long lasting performance.

· Variable Venturi Aperture provides turbulence to mix the air/fuel charge for a more complete burn.

· Increased Airflow creates better engine cylinder filling and can be used with any grade of fuel for more power and economy.

· Computer Designed chambers and channels specially designed to improve efficiency and air velocity performance.

· Up to 22 hp gains*

· Up to 4 miles per gallon gains*

· Up to 25 ft lb gain in Torque*

· Quiet Operation

· Performance benefits across entire power band*

· Environmentally friendly with cleaner fuel burn

· Fifty States Legal (C.A.R.B # D516-2)"

 

"Performance level may vary among applications and driving style".

 

Well, there it is y'all it, that "final" disclaimer about "performance level may vary among applications".

 

Do any of y'all really expect such performance from such a simple theory? I don't. Again, I am sniffing a particular odor, and it's not pleasant. If any anyone anywhere could add 4 MPG to any car, we would be watching info-mercials on all channels...Maybe network news too?

 

Funny...Many of y'all have pondered about the value of the Steeda bellows (elbow) and I have replied from day one that it's only value is smoothing out the turbulence native in the factory bellows (also called a "zip tube") which improves throttle tip-in. Nothing specatular, but let me get this straight...Y'all want a smoother air induction path (for what ever benefit), but now consider a TB spacer that adds turbulence, which supposedly produces more RWHP/RWTQ and greater MPG? Did I read that correctly...4 MPG?

 

Impressive...Almost as strong as the odor attached to it.

 

Field testing...Who's up next? Before and after dynos, please?

 

Y'all are strong on suggestions, and weak on proof from the end user in the field. If y'all like it all that much, buy it, install it, and publish before and after dynos charts. If y'all get just half of what this mod offers, I'll be amazed. More than just amazed, I'll pay for your dynos after you prove just half of the brag from Moss. Deliver the proof, I'll "show you the money".

 

Ready...Set...GO!

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Here's the link for it. I called and Moss says that you should truthfully expect gains of 10-12 hp and that the power will be between shifts rather than top end.

 

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How does that work, exactly...I mean, isn't "between shifts" and "top end" at a similar rpm?? :shift:

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Maybe "between shifts" is that dead spot when you have the clutch pedal pushed in?

 

I have a different idea. Why don't we put a Roots supercharger in the induction system? I bet THAT will add turbulence!

 

Isn't this a wee little bit like sticking a spoon in a blender and stirring?

 

4 mpg is going to be a solid 20% gain in efficiency for these cars. That's a lot to swallow.

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Funny...Many of y'all have pondered about the value of the Steeda bellows (elbow) and I have replied from day one that it's only value is smoothing out the turbulence native in the factory bellows (also called a "zip tube") which improves throttle tip-in. Nothing specatular, but let me get this straight...Y'all want a smoother air induction path (for what ever benefit), but now consider a TB spacer that adds turbulence, which supposedly produces more RWHP/RWTQ and greater MPG? Did I read that correctly...4 MPG?

 

I couldn't agree with you more Mac! I've seen these things advertising 10 RWHP and more torque and I just don't see how adding a spacer can do that at all...

 

And you are correct that a lot of us have added the Steeda elbow to smooth out the air flow vs. the factory bellows...and now to add turbulence just doesn't make any good sense to me either. And Moss claiming up to 22 HP gains! That's crazy! And to think that ZMax got sued for some of their claims!

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I wonder if Moss would be willing to put that HP gain in writing and back it up w/ a dyno chart? I somehow doubt it....

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I agree, something smells here.

 

Why do you want turbulance before entering the cylinder? You only need turbulance during the compression cycle/cylinder to maximize the combustion of fuel and air. Before and after the cylinder you need to move a quantity of air fast with as little resistance a possible.

 

This chunk of metal under the hood is an air pump. Move as much air as possible and move it as fast as you can. Create a bigger bang. The whole thing is simple. Now just maximize the air/fuel ratio for the biggest bang (Torque/HP)

 

NO TURBULANCE before the cylinder.

 

 

Edit: Think about it...why do they polish the ports on the heads?

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Ok so I got the real scoop on these things and thay are not what they say they are. I spoke to GTR here in Ca and they said that they are a real easy mod and that they only really give 3 HP gains at the DYNO. They have a DYNO there and that is how thay tested them. So yes MOSS and the manufacturer of these things are full of SH!@. :finger:

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Ok so I got the real scoop on these things and thay are not what they say they are. I spoke to GTR here in Ca and they said that they are a real easy mod and that they only really give 3 HP gains at the DYNO. They have a DYNO there and that is how thay tested them. So yes MOSS and the manufacturer of these things are full of SH!@. :finger:

 

If you visit the Steeda site, they also sell one and also claim 2 to 3 hp gain. Hey, 2 to 3's not bad, couldn't hurt and might come in handy! I wonder, though, if it would be negated somehow by our SGT tunes or cause some other ill effect because of our tunes. Perhaps someday someone will buy one and provide a factual dyno test result.

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Ok so I got the real scoop on these things and thay are not what they say they are. I spoke to GTR here in Ca and they said that they are a real easy mod and that they only really give 3 HP gains at the DYNO. They have a DYNO there and that is how thay tested them. So yes MOSS and the manufacturer of these things are full of SH!@. :finger:

3 HP gain could be anything - heat soak, air temp/press, humidity, what kind of shoes the guy pushing the accelerator is wearing. You will gain or lose that much on the brand of gas you put in the tank.

 

That's just not statistically significant.

 

Edit: You know, I just read this, and I was thinking to myself, "Hell, I get more than that with spacer under the Holley". Duh.

 

You put spacers between carbs and the manifolds as an insulator, to keep the carburetor cooler. I wonder if there isn't some similar effect happening here? Maybe the whole "turbulence" thing is just smoke and mirrors covering up something that cools the throttle body a wee bit?

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It's about air efficiency. By creating a turbulent you can techinically "pack" more air into the cylinder. If you blew through a straw the air is linear in it's approach to the other end. If you were able to twist that straw and blow, the air would have a smaller capacity which would allow more air. However, the air is only traveling so fast. With a CAI it really doesn't make that much of a difference because the air isn't really being "forced." That's why this spacer MIGHT make better gains with a forced induction system like a turbo or sc, but not CAI. I think $$ could be better spent. Quite honestly, you could likely squeeze 2-3 HP's with tweaking the tune and the gains would hardly be noticeble.

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2 or 3 hp not significant? The additional HP of a lawn mower would not help at all? Would not any auto racing team love to find 2 or 3 more hp???

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2 or 3 hp not significant? The additional HP of a lawn mower would not help at all? Would not any auto racing team love to find 2 or 3 more hp???

I believe that is correct.

 

You see very few race cars with lawn mower assists. I know of no auto racing team that checks up with Briggs and Stratton for tweaks to their powerplants.

 

There is eventually a point of diminishing returns on any mod. Perhaps on some platforms, this doohickey will make a difference. On the supercharged 5.4L, I think this thing is adding an eyedropper of water to a bathtub. You can't reliably measure the difference, so how do you even know the difference even exists?

 

You can do a dyno pull, let the engine cool, and do another pull, and get a difference of more than 4HP, without changing a thing.

 

I'll take a good driver, tune, tires, pressure, suspension, or even take out my Shaker 1000 over 4 dubious HP any day of the week.

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I believe that is correct.

 

You see very few race cars with lawn mower assists. I know of no auto racing team that checks up with Briggs and Stratton for tweaks to their powerplants.

 

There is eventually a point of diminishing returns on any mod. Perhaps on some platforms, this doohickey will make a difference. On the supercharged 5.4L, I think this thing is adding an eyedropper of water to a bathtub. You can't reliably measure the difference, so how do you even know the difference even exists?

 

You can do a dyno pull, let the engine cool, and do another pull, and get a difference of more than 4HP, without changing a thing.

 

I'll take a good driver, tune, tires, pressure, suspension, or even take out my Shaker 1000 over 4 dubious HP any day of the week.

Agreed, and thank you.

 

You can improve dyno numbers by 2-3-4 RWHP just by adjusting rear tire PSI. In fact, single digit improvements in RWHP are an easy task when you know how to play a dyno like you play a piano. Deliver double digit dyno improvement, and we can begin to talk about specific mod benefits.

 

Again (and I apologize for repeting myself), the important improvement is in RWTQ. The "torque curve". Torque moves the car forward and more torque to the ground means improved movement forward, period.

 

The difference between being fast, and being quick.

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OK, ok...so let me ask it this way...if your dynos told you that your crank HP was 347 HP, and you knew you could get to an even 350 by adding this spacer...would you do it?? :lol:

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OK, ok...so let me ask it this way...if your dynos told you that your crank HP was 347 HP, and you knew you could get to an even 350 by adding this spacer...would you do it?? :lol:

I'm not interested in crank HP my friend. Doesn't "float my boat", know what I mean? Not really concerned about RWHP either, show me the RW torque?

 

Besides, it's not just the cost of the spacer here, you have to include the cost of the dyno testing to confirm any improvement at all, and possibly include install labor that may be required by some owners. Not everyone works under their hood.

 

Around me, dyno testing "floats" around 75.00 for three pulls, no tuning. Repair shop flat rate is about the same per hour. So...Not such an inexpensive mod anymore, eh? 3-4 crank HP (just to achieve a superfluous goal of 350 BHP) for 250-300 bucks? Moreover, dyno testing is just a prediction of possibilities, the real results of any mod are shown in a lower ET. That's where the bang for the buck proves itself.

 

Guess we'll just have to wait and see, folks. Hope someone goes for it and includes before and after dynos, better yet...some time slips.

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I'm not interested in crank HP my friend. Doesn't "float my boat", know what I mean? Not really concerned about RWHP either, show me the RW torque?

 

Besides, it's not just the cost of the spacer here, you have to include the cost of the dyno testing to confirm any improvement at all, and possibly include install labor that may be required by some owners. Not everyone works under their hood.

 

Around me, dyno testing "floats" around 75.00 for three pulls, no tuning. Repair shop flat rate is about the same per hour. So...Not such an inexpensive mod anymore, eh? 3-4 crank HP (just to achieve a superfluous goal of 350 BHP) for 250-300 bucks? Moreover, dyno testing is just a prediction of possibilities, the real results of any mod are shown in a lower ET. That's where the bang for the buck proves itself.

 

Guess we'll just have to wait and see, folks. Hope someone goes for it and includes before and after dynos, better yet...some time slips.

 

Yes, you have made your torque argument many times, so I understand that...but most guys like to know the HP numbers. Now, if one "knows" that you'll gain the 3 or 4 hp w/ this mod, or if we're only talking about 3 or 4 hp, there's really no need (or much sense in) to dyno it to prove it, so that's really an unnecessary cost. I do hope someone does that, however, at some point! Lastly, I don't know if a lower ET would prove much either w/ respect to 3 or 4 hp because there's just way too many variables involved there (more than dyno testing I have to believe), starting with the track, temperatures, tires, the driver, etc., etc...

 

Maybe I'll be the guinea pig on this. If I can get a dyno pull (baseline) at Tasca, then sometime during the next year maybe I'll buy the dang spacer and install it in time for the next Tasca dyno pull! We'll see. Hey, then I would have 322 HP... allegedly....

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