How Likely Is Bankruptcy For Big Three?

[sharabi]

Oh....including the pants and shirt you are wearing..!!

[RStangsOC]

Hey there,

 

This American Made vs Foreign Made controversy is a tough one at best. At some point in the future, I will have to purchase something (4 door) that gets good gas mileage (ie: 30+ MPG). I have to say, I cant think of one American made car (whatever that is - but I mean Ford, GM, Chrysler) that I would have ANY interest in at all. None of them have any appeal for me. They are all pretty bland/plain looking. If the big US 3 auto makers would step it up in terms of design on good mileage cars, I think things would start to turn around for them. MAYBE its just me.

 

As for things other than cars - like others have said, its pretty hard anymore to find things that are 100% American made. The world is changing (and has been for at least the last 15+ years).

 

Page

[mr4teth]

Hey there,

 

This American Made vs Foreign Made controversy is a tough one at best. At some point in the future, I will have to purchase something (4 door) that gets good gas mileage (ie: 30+ MPG). I have to say, I cant think of one American made car (whatever that is - but I mean Ford, GM, Chrysler) that I would have ANY interest in at all. None of them have any appeal for me. They are all pretty bland/plain looking. If the big US 3 auto makers would step it up in terms of design on good mileage cars, I think things would start to turn around for them. MAYBE its just me.

 

As for things other than cars - like others have said, its pretty hard anymore to find things that are 100% American made. The world is changing (and has been for at least the last 15+ years).

 

Page

 

Have you looked at the Ford Fusion or Chevy Malibu lately? Man they hit home runs with those cars (IMO)! They are both great on fuel consumption and highly rated on reliability & quality! ... wait to you see what happens when Ford gets their European lines converted for the American market .... Honda and Toyota better be prepared!

[sharabi]

Have you looked at the Ford Fusion or Chevy Malibu lately? Man they hit home runs with those cars (IMO)! They are both great on fuel consumption and highly rated on reliability & quality! ... wait to you see what happens when Ford gets their European lines converted for the American market .... Honda and Toyota better be prepared!

 

 

You are missing the point......you have just said EUROPEAN LINES...they are built in Europe by FORD....LOL how can you call that domestic?

Toyota and Honda are built here in US ...how can you call it foreign?

 

Let me sum it up and i promise it will be my last post on this thread....i will try though to keep my promise

 

 

[CH53Driver]

I seriously hope that none of the Big 3 (the American Big 3) do not go under.

 

That being said, I do agree with several of the comments on here. First, the American car companies need to do something about there designs. I agree with Page on this, nothing in the Big 3 inventory excite me the least as far as "regular" cars go. The only ones I get excited about are the muscle/performance cars. Also, I have owned a Chevy and my GT500 in the last couple of years. The customer service at almost every domestic dealership I had went to was extremely poor...one place downright insulting and rude. Now I know that the car makers will say that they don't have any control over the dealerships and I say that is BS. I have owned several Honda's, a couple of Nissan's, one Toyota and my other car is currently an Acura. Every single "foreign" dealership I have dealt with have been extremely considerate and helpful. Oh yeah, I have never had any "mechanical" issues with any of my "foreign" cars, but had several with my Chevy and a couple with the GT500.

 

In then end, I love my GT500 and will never get rid of it. I also really want to buy another Ford car as my daily driver, but am waiting for something to come out that competes with the STI's and EVO's (small Turbocharged engine making 300+ hp and AWD with 4 doors). Come on Ford...give me an SVT Fusion or something! :happy feet:

[RStangsOC]

The customer service at almost every domestic dealership I had went to was extremely poor...one place downright insulting and rude. Now I know that the car makers will say that they don't have any control over the dealerships and I say that is BS. I have owned several Honda's, a couple of Nissan's, one Toyota and my other car is currently an Acura. Every single "foreign" dealership I have dealt with have been extremely considerate and helpful. Oh yeah, I have never had any "mechanical" issues with any of my "foreign" cars, but had several with my Chevy and a couple with the GT500.

 

 

I agree 1000% about customer service. I worked at a local Ford dealer for a while (last year), and most of my customers told me (and the service manager) that they had never been treated as well as they were by me. I kinda think if you treat people well, they wont have a problem coming back Problem was with this particular dealership (and from what I now understand its common in the auto industry) is that the hours were INSANE. I DO have a life outside of work, and really had no desire to go through another divorce And, this particular dealer had 10 service advisors. Thats WAY to many pieces to cut the pie into.

 

I do have to say though - the customer service issue is a dealership issue - not the manufacturer. We had a Honda Odessey a few years ago (so we could take my Mom places - she couldnt get into our Expedition so we had to trade for something she COULD get into). One night while driving it, half of the back-lit lights on the lower dash went out (I actually SAW them go out). I took it to the local Honda dealer where we bought it brand new and was told by the service advisor, service manager, and technician that there never were any lights behind those specific buttons. Went around and around with them over these silly frigging lights - and they REFUSED to believe that those particular switches ever had night time lighting (even though other buttons with the same functions were lit). We ended up taking the van to another dealership not so close to home - to get the issue resolved.

 

Anyway, enough said on this topic from me - I think

[RStangsOC]

Have you looked at the Ford Fusion or Chevy Malibu lately? Man they hit home runs with those cars (IMO)! They are both great on fuel consumption and highly rated on reliability & quality! ... wait to you see what happens when Ford gets their European lines converted for the American market .... Honda and Toyota better be prepared!

 

 

The Fusion just doesnt do anything for me at all. I would HALF way consider a car like the new Taurus - but it doesnt get good enough mileage. The Malibu - well, its not a bad looking car. Something I could PROBABLY drive. In 4 cylinder trim, they are JUST at the 30 MPG mark on the highway. Not sure what the power would be like in a car of that size with a 4-banger in it. To go to the 6, you lose the mileage. Something to think about for sure

[LuisA]

You are missing the point......you have just said EUROPEAN LINES...they are built in Europe by FORD....LOL how can you call that domestic?

Toyota and Honda are built here in US ...how can you call it foreign?

 

Let me sum it up and i promise it will be my last post on this thread....i will try though to keep my promise

 

 

 

Yes, scrambled eggs it is!!!! But, I still refuse to buy anything made in China!

[ff500]

There may be an awd svt fusion in the works in the near future.

[mr4teth]

You are missing the point......you have just said EUROPEAN LINES...they are built in Europe by FORD....LOL how can you call that domestic?

 

Who said Ford wouldn't build these cars in the US? Especially considering how weak the dollar is to the euro?

 

Toyota and Honda are built here in US ...how can you call it foreign?

 

When profit generated by these companies leave the good old USA is when I call them foreign. Where a vehicle is build is only half the picture.

 

 

 

*edit:Spelling

[ShelbyDude]

Hey there,

 

This American Made vs Foreign Made controversy is a tough one at best. At some point in the future, I will have to purchase something (4 door) that gets good gas mileage (ie: 30+ MPG). I have to say, I cant think of one American made car (whatever that is - but I mean Ford, GM, Chrysler) that I would have ANY interest in at all. None of them have any appeal for me. They are all pretty bland/plain looking. If the big US 3 auto makers would step it up in terms of design on good mileage cars, I think things would start to turn around for them. MAYBE its just me.

 

As for things other than cars - like others have said, its pretty hard anymore to find things that are 100% American made. The world is changing (and has been for at least the last 15+ years).

 

Page

 

 

What small cars that get good gas mileage are appealing? They ALL look plain to me. So what car does appeal to you?

 

The Fusion is probably the best looking car out there in its class. It's sporty, it's good size, it gets good gas mileage, and is rated the best in its class. What else is there that does appeal to you?

 

Have you seen the new Taurus coming out? From the spy pic I seen, that looks like it will be a home run, not to mention the best looking taurus yet!

[RStangsOC]

What small cars that get good gas mileage are appealing? They ALL look plain to me. So what car does appeal to you?

 

 

Not in any particular order - New Toyota Camary, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Mazda-6, Mitsubishi Lancer, Nissan Altima, Subaru Impreza, VW Passat, VW Jetta, Volvo S60 and S40 - only a few.

 

Keep in mind I havent actually DRIVEN any of these, but from the outside, I kinda like the looks of any of them.

[sharabi]

Can i throw in the mix BMW M3... i kinda miss mine.

[sharabi]

i had to give it away for my windstar mini van when i had my second child....talking about depression for few years until i got adapted to the new situation...lol

[SpeedRacer]

8/7/2008 General Motors has reported a net loss of US$15.5bn or $27.33 per share for the second quarter, including "significant charges and special items", compared with net income of $784m ($1.37 per share) a year ago.

 

GM is getting worse...

 

Stuart

[RStangsOC]

Can i throw in the mix BMW M3... i kinda miss mine.

 

 

Price wise, its probably out of my reach

[ShelbyDude]

Not in any particular order - New Toyota Camary, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Mazda-6, Mitsubishi Lancer, Nissan Altima, Subaru Impreza, VW Passat, VW Jetta, Volvo S60 and S40 - only a few.

 

Keep in mind I havent actually DRIVEN any of these, but from the outside, I kinda like the looks of any of them.

 

 

The camry, corolla, accord, civic, passat, jetta are all plain.

 

If you like the Mazda-6 why don't you like the fusion? Pretty much the same.

 

As for camry and accord the fusion is smoking those two in looks and quality.

 

Also, I have yet to see a single customer that typically likes the camry or accord say they still like those better after looking at and driving the fusion. They all said the fusion was better looking and drove and handled a lot better.

 

Have you actually driven one? If you drive the three you will know what everyone is talking about.

[shack]

Euro vs. USD vs. Yen.

 

With this being a "global economy" and all, we should all use the same - I vote Gold Pressed Latinum.

 

Discuss

[blkGT500nCA]

here ya go.

 

american made. fast. and no gas at all.

 

 

 

[RStangsOC]

The camry, corolla, accord, civic, passat, jetta are all plain.

 

If you like the Mazda-6 why don't you like the fusion? Pretty much the same.

 

As for camry and accord the fusion is smoking those two in looks and quality.

 

Also, I have yet to see a single customer that typically likes the camry or accord say they still like those better after looking at and driving the fusion. They all said the fusion was better looking and drove and handled a lot better.

 

Have you actually driven one? If you drive the three you will know what everyone is talking about.

 

While the Mazda-6 and Fusion may be based on the same car - they look NOTHING alike at all. Yes, I have driven a Fusion (worked at a Ford dealer last year - have driven MANY of them). Looks just dont do it for me.

[RStangsOC]

here ya go.

 

american made. fast. and no gas at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Trust me, if an M3 is out of my price range, the Tesla is WAY WAY WAY out of my price range. And besides, like I said when I started posting about needing to buy a good fuel mileage car - it will have to be a 4 door

[CRQuarto]

I agree 1000% about customer service. I worked at a local Ford dealer for a while (last year), and most of my customers told me (and the service manager) that they had never been treated as well as they were by me. I kinda think if you treat people well, they wont have a problem coming back Problem was with this particular dealership (and from what I now understand its common in the auto industry) is that the hours were INSANE. I DO have a life outside of work, and really had no desire to go through another divorce And, this particular dealer had 10 service advisors. Thats WAY to many pieces to cut the pie into.

 

I do have to say though - the customer service issue is a dealership issue - not the manufacturer. We had a Honda Odessey a few years ago (so we could take my Mom places - she couldnt get into our Expedition so we had to trade for something she COULD get into). One night while driving it, half of the back-lit lights on the lower dash went out (I actually SAW them go out). I took it to the local Honda dealer where we bought it brand new and was told by the service advisor, service manager, and technician that there never were any lights behind those specific buttons. Went around and around with them over these silly frigging lights - and they REFUSED to believe that those particular switches ever had night time lighting (even though other buttons with the same functions were lit). We ended up taking the van to another dealership not so close to home - to get the issue resolved.

 

Anyway, enough said on this topic from me - I think

 

Page, if it makes you feel better, that same Ford dealership you worked at is probably the worst dealership now. I hate to think of a nice guy like you working there, no one deserves that. I have been to it numerous times and every time I left extremely pissed off and insulted. Perfect example would be when I was shopping for my Shelby, they had a black with alloy striped one I would have bought right then and there for MSRP. I simply told the salesman, "If you can get me this car for MSRP plus taxes, ect, I will take it today, right now." The salesman honestly starts laughing his ass off, then snidely says, "Good luck with that!" and does an abrupt about face and walks off. After I bought my Shelby from Galpin for slightly under sticker, I drove it over there and let them know that it could have been their sale. Another great example would be when my roommate bought his first Mustang from them, a Vista blue white striped GT with a California Special body kit on it, but not an actual CS model. Everything went great, he bought the car, took it home, had it for about a week. Then, he gets a call from them saying they couldn't find him financing, and they needed to take the car back. We later found out from another guy there that it wasn't because they couldn't find financing (he has a 720 credit rating and plenty of credit history, so we knew it was BS to begin with), it was because they forgot to charge him for a few of the options on the car. The car has 500 miles on it from the week he owned it, and it is still to this day sitting on their lot, and they are still trying to get $41,000+ for it as a "new" vehicle. I am glad you are not there anymore, they look like they are going to go belly up.

[DubbsFaris]

Another great example would be when my roommate bought his first Mustang from them, a Vista blue white striped GT with a California Special body kit on it, but not an actual CS model. Everything went great, he bought the car, took it home, had it for about a week. Then, he gets a call from them saying they couldn't find him financing, and they needed to take the car back. We later found out from another guy there that it wasn't because they couldn't find financing (he has a 720 credit rating and plenty of credit history, so we knew it was BS to begin with), it was because they forgot to charge him for a few of the options on the car. The car has 500 miles on it from the week he owned it, and it is still to this day sitting on their lot, and they are still trying to get $41,000+ for it as a "new" vehicle. I am glad you are not there anymore, they look like they are going to go belly up.

 

???? :huh:

 

Can they resell a car like that? for new?

[ShelbyDude]

???? :huh:

 

Can they resell a car like that? for new?

 

 

Yep. As long as it hasn't been titled and until they finish the paper work and send in the registration to the State to be titled, it is still new regardless of how many miles are on it.

 

No different than selling a demo.

 

No different than doing a dealer trade to get a car for a customer that is 800 miles away and it is driven back to the selling dealership.

 

We've sold demos with 8K - 10K miles on them. Naturally the customer knows about the miles and that is was a demo and the vehicle is discounted, but it still sold as a new car and the buyer is the first owner of record.

[RStangsOC]

???? :huh:

 

Can they resell a car like that? for new?

 

 

Its not really resold as new, its called an unwind. Still retains all of the warranty, etc. Its normally placed on the lot with other used cars - not in the same lineup as new cars.

[ShelbyDude]

Page, if it makes you feel better, that same Ford dealership you worked at is probably the worst dealership now. I hate to think of a nice guy like you working there, no one deserves that. I have been to it numerous times and every time I left extremely pissed off and insulted. Perfect example would be when I was shopping for my Shelby, they had a black with alloy striped one I would have bought right then and there for MSRP. I simply told the salesman, "If you can get me this car for MSRP plus taxes, ect, I will take it today, right now." The salesman honestly starts laughing his ass off, then snidely says, "Good luck with that!" and does an abrupt about face and walks off. After I bought my Shelby from Galpin for slightly under sticker, I drove it over there and let them know that it could have been their sale. Another great example would be when my roommate bought his first Mustang from them, a Vista blue white striped GT with a California Special body kit on it, but not an actual CS model. Everything went great, he bought the car, took it home, had it for about a week. Then, he gets a call from them saying they couldn't find him financing, and they needed to take the car back. We later found out from another guy there that it wasn't because they couldn't find financing (he has a 720 credit rating and plenty of credit history, so we knew it was BS to begin with), it was because they forgot to charge him for a few of the options on the car. The car has 500 miles on it from the week he owned it, and it is still to this day sitting on their lot, and they are still trying to get $41,000+ for it as a "new" vehicle. I am glad you are not there anymore, they look like they are going to go belly up.

 

 

Your friend should have just said, no problem! I'll just bring in a check! LOL

 

He could have gotten the loan at ANY bank with a 720 FICO!

[CRQuarto]

Your friend should have just said, no problem! I'll just bring in a check! LOL

 

He could have gotten the loan at ANY bank with a 720 FICO!

 

Eh, no worries, he learned to drive stick on that car anyways so the tranny was probably beat to death. It would have been his problem, but karma was served, hehe.

[formervettowner]

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp...ig-three/121456

 

If Ford should be the one to file I dont know that they will have to honor extended warranites. Factory ones should be all right.

 

G.M. has just announced 0% on 2008 Corvettes. 55 years of production and this is the first time. In the past dealers could count on nice profits from Vetts. Sign of the times. A local dealer has 72 on the lot right now and is giving them away. Our Shelby's are looking better and better. Corvette resale values just went in the toilet.

[19Maddog64]

I hope Big 3 don't file. Our tax dollars are bailing too many companies as it is. I try to buy as much American as I can. Just bought a Fusion for our family car. They took $5000 off the sticker for a loaded '08 with leather and every option I can think of except a nav system. It is a great car. 4 door sedans are pretty much the same to me and I was glad to get a Ford at such a price. I hope if our economy is now "global" people building our cars don't start getting "global" pay checks, say, like they do in China. I know everything we buy has parts made all over the world but I would really like to buy as much domestic as I can.

[Zan186]

We have a Toyota plant here in San Antonio that provides over 3 billion annually to our economy- there are 47 local vendors that supply the plant and over 3000 employees that would tell you their pay is great!

 

That's the problem these days- people think "american" in a world economy. Toyota is just as much American with plants all over the U.S. as Ford is with plants OUTSIDE of the U.S.

 

And the union card? oh, please...I was a Steward in one of the biggest...and frankly, they are outdated and part of the reason we have these problems in the big three...

 

GM has to employ 3000 "standby employees' that are paid without working one minute...can you say fogetaboutit?

 

There are always two sides to every debate. Truth is the UAW worker has it way better than any of the foreign car employers. There benefits and pay are higher and their retirement is top notch. While this is great for the UAW worker is tends to make it difficult to compete against the competition.

 

Simply put unions are great for making a safe work environment and giving the worker a voice that has support. However, Unions kill industry.

What happened to the Steel Industry in the US? The Unions killed it. Guys making $60 an hour (for unskilled labor) is rediculous. Not to mention benefits on top of that.

Granted it is better for them to make an outrageous wage then to be burden on the tax payers.

 

As for buying Toyota or some other foreign car, not in my household. It would be slapping the patients that work at Ford and Gm in the face if I did. Every car I have ever owned was made by the big 3. Yet I feel the unions have dug their own hole. I think the golden age of working in the auto plants is over. I think you are going to see the unions get very weak and the pay to go down to the $15 to $25 dollar per hour range.