Official TSB #08-16-4: Clutch Drag REPAIR RESULTS

[cammerunderpressure]

If my problem described above, if it even is a problem, is a result of the issue addressed by the TSB, it amazes me that any company would not fix that problem at the source, immediately. If there is ANY question, especially on low production models such as these. I mean, we aren't buying Chevy's here, this is serious cash for a serious machine and if we do not feel we have been given the experience we expected from this outlay, guess what, we won't be buying another one.

 

Just my 2 cents, and venting, may not be the same problem, but some have had this problem and it should have been fixed the moment these reports came in.

 

Pie in the sky, I know.

 

I am with you, Wilmmr.... When I bought my GT500 I got all kinds of warm and fuzzy feelings about Ford. I almost convinced myself to replace my wifes SUV with a Flex and my dialy driver with an MKS. I looked at both and almost got into the whole Ford thing.

 

Now this car, and Ford, is simply pissing me off. My car doesn't have the clutch issues now, but who knows when they will happen. I want the TSB, but they won't do it without a problem. My car also has a terribly noisy front end. Several trips to dealer and still unresolved....

 

I could have been a customer for life, as I have a Ford upbringing, and have had several Stangs, but now I am getting tired of them.

 

I think with cars like this, you issue a recall to all customers and fix the damn faulty clutches on everyone, so that current, and future owners are stuck with a massive repair bill. And for my front end, dispatch a damn engineer to come look at the thing and solve my noise.

 

I work for a manufactures Rep and we dispatch repair people on flights across the county to fix our equipment, that in some cases costs 1/10th what this car cost me.

[Grabber]

Hang in there and enjoy your car.

 

You have a good warranty, and when you get a symptom or 2...take it in and get her fixed.

[cammerunderpressure]

Hang in there and enjoy your car.

 

You have a good warranty, and when you get a symptom or 2...take it in and get her fixed.

 

I am trying Grabber. I agree on the warranty and will just lay back on the clutch. The front end noise is driving me nuts. I hope it gets figured out next week.

 

I love this car and am totally into it, I just wish I could get it to be normal and correct.

 

Thanks for the encouragement...

[Grabber]

I am trying Grabber. I agree on the warranty and will just lay back on the clutch. The front end noise is driving me nuts. I hope it gets figured out next week.

 

I love this car and am totally into it, I just wish I could get it to be normal and correct.

 

Thanks for the encouragement...

 

This same thing happened to me. It got me down in the dumps for a while too. You will eventually get the bugs worked out of the car, and then it will even mean more to you. Keep a determined mindset to get these things fixed as they show there heads. I had a few problems...and now my car is simply awesome.

[Wilmmr]

This is the most unsophisticated brick thru a window car I have ever owned, and I love it. I think all of us would agree that's part of it's charm. A defective part or front end noise is unacceptable though. As to the clutch issue, I like to take Ford at their word, in the TSB it says "some" of the GT500's could have the clutch problem. I have to think that means that it is not a defective part with a 100% failure rate which would trigger a recall. Maybe that's pie in the sky, I would like to think that Ford would take care of their customers, while it should not matter, especially those that laid down 48k on their product.

 

I believe my dealer will stand by their product, they have a good local reputation but we will see. The noise I've complained about in this thread seems to be evolving, it is happening must less and now only every now and then, gear box breaking in? I don't know, she shifts well and pulls well in every gear, can't ask for more than that even if sometimes it gives me that sound.

 

Bottom line is I love the car and I'm going with the flow, keeping an ear out and a journal on any noises that seem to be unusual and consistent so that I could demonstrate it to the SVT tech. Otherwise I just keep the smile on my face every time I turn the key. Almost up to 200 miles this morning, Thursday will be one week.

 

Anyway, I had a choice of a BMW Z4, a corvette or this jet black with grey stripes GT500, three completely different animals, I made the right choice.

[08redgt500]

On my little adventure with Dearborn and so on.... All the parts have arrived at the Mt. Airy, MD Ford dealership, I received a call from Dearborn this AM, 9-9-08. The schedule is to have the work done Monday 9-15-08. Ford HQ is even going to send one of their SVT engineers out from MI to have a look and drive the car after it's done! I found that out yesterday from the Service Director at Century Ford in Mt. Airy and was confirmed by the Exec. Rep., Lynn in Dearborn. They also agreed that I could take a few pics of the work being done; and I promised to stay out of their way. So far all the right words are being said, and it appears I will be a happy Ford GT500 owner in a week from today!!! Ya-whoo!!!

[68fastback]

On my little adventure with Dearborn and so on.... All the parts have arrived at the Mt. Airy, MD Ford dealership, I received a call from Dearborn this AM, 9-9-08. The schedule is to have the work done Monday 9-15-08. Ford HQ is even going to send one of their SVT engineers out from MI to have a look and drive the car after it's done! I found that out yesterday from the Service Director at Century Ford in Mt. Airy and was confirmed by the Exec. Rep., Lynn in Dearborn. They also agreed that I could take a few pics of the work being done; and I promised to stay out of their way. So far all the right words are being said, and it appears I will be a happy Ford GT500 owner in a week from today!!! Ya-whoo!!!

 

Sounds like this is one of the TSB installs they're monitoring, which I assume is how engineering finds out first-hand how the installs and their instructions are fairing. Sounds encouraging! Would be good to get the engineer's name, if possibe? Hope it's smooth install for you!!

 

Dan

[Willie]

Ten days and counting..... still waiting on the flywheel..... In the meantime, call me one happy Mazda CX-9 driver .... Yeah, right. It was either this loaner or a Lincoln Town Car.

 

Willie

[shel-b001]

On my little adventure with Dearborn and so on.... All the parts have arrived at the Mt. Airy, MD Ford dealership, I received a call from Dearborn this AM, 9-9-08. The schedule is to have the work done Monday 9-15-08. Ford HQ is even going to send one of their SVT engineers out from MI to have a look and drive the car after it's done! I found that out yesterday from the Service Director at Century Ford in Mt. Airy and was confirmed by the Exec. Rep., Lynn in Dearborn. They also agreed that I could take a few pics of the work being done; and I promised to stay out of their way. So far all the right words are being said, and it appears I will be a happy Ford GT500 owner in a week from today!!! Ya-whoo!!!

Keep us posted 7 pictures would be nice. THANKS

[CoSGT500]

This same thing happened to me. It got me down in the dumps for a while too. You will eventually get the bugs worked out of the car, and then it will even mean more to you. Keep a determined mindset to get these things fixed as they show there heads. I had a few problems...and now my car is simply awesome.

 

 

Grabber,

The clutch chatter in my '08 GT 500 is so bad that in attempting to back up a slight incline in a parking lot where I really couldn't just dump the clutch, I had to push it back in--the whole car was shaking. It's bad in first when warmed up, also.

My question is, I have installed aftermarket upper control arm and LCAs; should I put the stock equipment back in before going back to the dealer to discuss the TSB? Just don't want any hassle over voiding the warranty. The UCA and LCA mods are pretty common, have you heard of anyone else being hassled over that?

Thanks,

Mark

[Grabber]

Grabber,

The clutch chatter in my '08 GT 500 is so bad that in attempting to back up a slight incline in a parking lot where I really couldn't just dump the clutch, I had to push it back in--the whole car was shaking. It's bad in first when warmed up, also.

My question is, I have installed aftermarket upper control arm and LCAs; should I put the stock equipment back in before going back to the dealer to discuss the TSB? Just don't want any hassle over voiding the warranty. The UCA and LCA mods are pretty common, have you heard of anyone else being hassled over that?

Thanks,

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Those mods will not be a problem. Most of us have those...including me on the LCA's. Take your car in and get her fixed.

[Light66]

Grabber,

The clutch chatter in my '08 GT 500 is so bad that in attempting to back up a slight incline in a parking lot where I really couldn't just dump the clutch, I had to push it back in--the whole car was shaking. It's bad in first when warmed up, also.

My question is, I have installed aftermarket upper control arm and LCAs; should I put the stock equipment back in before going back to the dealer to discuss the TSB? Just don't want any hassle over voiding the warranty. The UCA and LCA mods are pretty common, have you heard of anyone else being hassled over that?

Thanks,

Mark

 

Mark,

 

I took my 08 in last week with its UCA and FRPP CAI. No issues with the dealer. Mind you I did take it to a dealer who works on and sells high performance mustangs all the time. The TSB and new clutch pack will be installed later this week. BTW the dealer ordered the TSB parts last Wednesday and they came in today.

[1268]

I have an 08 gt500, Feb 2008 build...950 miles. I do get clutch chatter when starting in first at low rpms. 2-3 times I have trouble getting in reverse...one time I had to turn the car off and restart it and it went in. Not sure if I have the issues but I called my dealership and she is going in next Wed. to get checked out. I made them aware of the TSB.

[GT500FLYBOY]

I have an 08 gt500, Feb 2008 build...950 miles. I do get clutch chatter when starting in first at low rpms. 2-3 times I have trouble getting in reverse...one time I had to turn the car off and restart it and it went in. Not sure if I have the issues but I called my dealership and she is going in next Wed. to get checked out. I made them aware of the TSB.

 

It sounds like you do have it. Whenever you have a problem putting it in gear, the synchros aren't able to line the gears up since the clutch is dragging and they can't keep up.

 

Do try the hiss test. Put the pedal to the floor and if the clutch continues to hiss for 3 seconds - that's the problem. The clutch has trouble pulling off the input shaft, keeping torque on the synchros. This causes the clutch to overheat and warp over time and creates even more chatter. The problem then gets progressively worse.

[dsublett]

Mark,

 

Those mods will not be a problem. Most of us have those...including me on the LCA's. Take your car in and get her fixed.

Grabber,

Just noticed a rattling noise when stopped, idling, in neutral, with clutch out. Goes away with revving the engine or push the clutch in. Is that the same noise that you noted with your vehicle. I remember you had a video with audio with something like this. I also have a slight grind going into 2nd and 3rd mainly when cold. Is this what the TSB #08-16-4 dealing with? I apologize if this has already been discussed but I'm trying to decide whether to take the car in or not.

Thanks for your help.

Dwight

[1268]

It sounds like you do have it. Whenever you have a problem putting it in gear, the synchros aren't able to line the gears up since the clutch is dragging and they can't keep up.

 

Do try the hiss test. Put the pedal to the floor and if the clutch continues to hiss for 3 seconds - that's the problem. The clutch has trouble pulling off the input shaft, keeping torque on the synchros. This causes the clutch to overheat and warp over time and creates even more chatter. The problem then gets progressively worse.

 

I tried the hiss test and due to a blocked ear couldn't tell. I did do Grabber's test with putting it in first/reverse as soon as the clutch goes in and then doing it again but this time holding the clutch in for 3-4 seconds before engaging and there is a very noticeable difference...especially with reverse. With the clutch held....in glides into gear. The other way it feels extremely notchy to say the least. I am taking it to my friend's house now (he works at the local dealership where it is going) to show him.

[Son of GT]

Just a quick note to all that may not be aware, but Grabber (Rob) is traveling this week. He left for Dearborn the morning so his responses here may not be as swift as usual.

[dsublett]

Just a quick note to all that may not be aware, but Grabber (Rob) is traveling this week. He left for Dearborn the morning so his responses here may not be as swift as usual.

Thanks for info.

I've noticed this noise in neutral off and on this past month - replies over on other site (GT500) seem to think this is normal. I have no problems going into reverse, but occasionally have mild grind going into 2nd and 3rd particularly with first few shifts when cold.

[dsublett]

[quote

[1268]

Does anyone have the entire parts list needed for the full TSB? I also noticed a few mentioned some other items should be in the tsb that aren't...master and slave cylinders? My contact at my local dealership is pushing for a full TSB on mine and wants to know all the TSB parts and potentially complimentary parts that are connected to the clutch etc. He believes I can provide him with better info. thru the site here than he can get thru Ford. Says a lot right there.

[Wilmmr]

Dsublett, I have exactly the same thing and I picked up my GT500 last week, mid August build so I JUST missed the fix....figures!

 

But anyway, the chatter is normal from what I gather when the car is in neutral, clutch out because of the nature of the clutch. When you push the clutch pedal to the floor the sound should IMMEDIATELY go silent, if it dosen't if there is a drag or delay, then the TSB repair is absolutely necessary. At least what I have been told. I also have a slight sound in 2nd sometimes, I really wouldn't call it a grind but I bet it sounds like what you hear.

Normal or is this another symptom infamous TSB? I am leaning towards normal.

 

So, will our clutch fail, 100%, no question just a matter of time? I don't know, I have been told that it will, I have been told if you don't drag race etc. the clutch will last for the life of the car. I think all we can do is keep an ear out, I plan to make a note of the TSB with my dealer before the warranty is out to at least raise the issue and provide me an argument if the clutch does start to exhibit this behavior. As to warranty I have been told 12 months/12,000 miles but I thought the powertrain warranty was 5/50 but either way I will document the issue with the dealer and go from there. I am a lawyer so I think a certified letter on my letterhead just before the 12 months is up should at least give me a place to start.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents. And I guess my $48,000 as well!

[dsublett]

Dsublett, I have exactly the same thing and I picked up my GT500 last week, mid August build so I JUST missed the fix....figures!

 

But anyway, the chatter is normal from what I gather when the car is in neutral, clutch out because of the nature of the clutch. When you push the clutch pedal to the floor the sound should IMMEDIATELY go silent, if it dosen't if there is a drag or delay, then the TSB repair is absolutely necessary. At least what I have been told. I also have a slight sound in 2nd sometimes, I really wouldn't call it a grind but I bet it sounds like what you hear.

Normal or is this another symptom infamous TSB? I am leaning towards normal.

 

So, will our clutch fail, 100%, no question just a matter of time? I don't know, I have been told that it will, I have been told if you don't drag race etc. the clutch will last for the life of the car. I think all we can do is keep an ear out, I plan to make a note of the TSB with my dealer before the warranty is out to at least raise the issue and provide me an argument if the clutch does start to exhibit this behavior. As to warranty I have been told 12 months/12,000 miles but I thought the powertrain warranty was 5/50 but either way I will document the issue with the dealer and go from there. I am a lawyer so I think a certified letter on my letterhead just before the 12 months is up should at least give me a place to start.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents. And I guess my $48,000 as well!

[dsublett]

Thanks Wilmmr for the info. I actually feel a slight grind in the shifter occasionally with 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Have noted it for several months. It hasn't changed much but the car is not pushed super hard. I've been told on the other site that this is what TSB 08-16-4 is at least partially about. I'm going to talk to the dealer again about this. I spoke to them about it about 4 months ago and their response was that most manual transmissions grind a little with shifts when cold. From what i'm hearing from others, there should not be any grind (cold or warm).

[dsublett]

Dsublett, I have exactly the same thing and I picked up my GT500 last week, mid August build so I JUST missed the fix....figures!

 

But anyway, the chatter is normal from what I gather when the car is in neutral, clutch out because of the nature of the clutch. When you push the clutch pedal to the floor the sound should IMMEDIATELY go silent, if it dosen't if there is a drag or delay, then the TSB repair is absolutely necessary. At least what I have been told. I also have a slight sound in 2nd sometimes, I really wouldn't call it a grind but I bet it sounds like what you hear.

Normal or is this another symptom infamous TSB? I am leaning towards normal.

 

So, will our clutch fail, 100%, no question just a matter of time? I don't know, I have been told that it will, I have been told if you don't drag race etc. the clutch will last for the life of the car. I think all we can do is keep an ear out, I plan to make a note of the TSB with my dealer before the warranty is out to at least raise the issue and provide me an argument if the clutch does start to exhibit this behavior. As to warranty I have been told 12 months/12,000 miles but I thought the powertrain warranty was 5/50 but either way I will document the issue with the dealer and go from there. I am a lawyer so I think a certified letter on my letterhead just before the 12 months is up should at least give me a place to start.

Anyway, my 2 cents. And I guess my $48,000 as well!

 

 

The TSB seems to include all 2007-2009 GT500 Mustangs with clutch drag, so I would think your vehicle should be covered if it has this problem. I would watch closely because mine started that way and has gotten worse at 8K miles. Talked to the dealership today and will take it in next week for clutch/flywheel repair. They said they would need the vehicle 7-10 days. Good luck!

[Willie]

Here's my original disc and flywheel. 13k miles. The tranny would not shift into any gear with the engine running.

 

 

....They said they would need the vehicle 7-10 days....

 

Today is my 13th day. They also want to replace my second gear. Otherwise, the tranny looked good. The gear is expected here in four days. I will be without the car for almost three weeks.

 

Willie

[shelbypowered]

 

were you satisfied with the way they did the work up to this point- did you have a good tech. and do you feel he did a confident jog so far- how many cars has this dealer worked on- the flywheel looks cooked and the clutch burned and distorted- I will be behind you if they ever get done- with the symptons you had related to second gear you would think they would have ordered the gear- it seems like second gear is always the culprit in these issues with the tranny portion- three weeks that is ugly- I cannot understand why some cars go out on the spot while others make it along longer- your car was not abused and my car has seem many runs at the track and still functions with small symptons now showing- in my mind every car that has the same flywheel and clutch as our will be in the line sooner or later- it was a mistake someone made and is finally being addressed- Everyone reading this post should take their car to the dealer and tell them they feel the car does not shift like it did and even if they say it seems fine make sure they document your appointment so when your turn comes you will have a record of the issue- this is if I recall correctly what helped Willie with his warranty work- The tsb on our car is going to happen to most of us so it is like sitting on a time bomb waiting your turn- and driving it normally will not get you out of the loop just ask Willie-rs

[sprint200]

............. I cannot understand why some cars go out on the spot while others make it along longer- your car was not abused and my car has seem many runs at the track and still functions with small symptons now showing- in my mind every car that has the same flywheel and clutch as our will be in the line sooner or later- ..............

One thing to remember is that these clutches were designed for the abuse. Even the TSB indicates that apparently driving these cars SLOW causes more problems than aggressive driving. It specifically mentions [in town or stop and go driving] being a main culprit, generating too much heat for the flywheel to properly dissipate without warping.

 

 

An update to my TSB repair:

 

Took the car in to Ed at PSE to do a thorough tech inspection on the car before the Terlingua event (mainly concerned about the brakes). We put it up on the lift and the first thing Ed saw was that the bolts that secure the tranny to the cross brace were missing!!!!! Then he noticed fluid leaking out of the tranny

 

He's been in contact with the service manager at the dealership, and I am told they are cooperating with him to get it fixed properly. I'll be at the shop this afternoon to do the other maintenance work and will learn more about the situation at that time. I begged the dealership to let PSE do work to begin with. This wouldn't have happened if the dealerships really cared about us as customers. Instead they are hell bent on maximizing their profits, quality be damned! So the tech's get the squeeze (I don't think it's the tech's fault. It comes down from the TOP!!!!!)

 

I'm a little bit -off right now, especially with Terlingua just 12 days away.............

[DutchGT500]

Sprint. It can't be the case not being there without your car. I need my Grabberrrrrrrrr shot, when I am there.

[Wilmmr]

Grabber, quick question and I think I speak for a lot of us out there who are having "sounds" that have not yet evolved into the full clutch drag issue.

I do the hiss test and pass it, but I do have a hiss in second gear, I let the clutch out in second and hear something like a hiss, a wierd sound. It seems from these threads that the 2nd gear is the first to go. So my question, since all I have is this sound, I suppose I have to wait until the clutch fails the hiss test to get my dealer to go along with the TSB. If by some miracle I can get them to go along with the TSB based on the sound in second gear is that the way I should go? If I wait, do I risk greater damage to the all the gears? Sorry for the stupid questions but I have zero knowlege of how this tranny works other then give it gas, let clutch out, repeat step one and so on.

 

Thanks for your time!

[brianspony]

Well I got my update this morning from my dealership and I am very disappointed and concerned.

 

Unfortuneately Ford has told my dealer they will not address my concerns at this time. Clutch chatter is a standard characteristic of the GT 500 beast, is what Ford is saying and where my car does not have any of the clutch drag symptoms with the hissing I need to continue to drive it until such time.

 

My concerns about the clicking\crunching when shifting is normal as compared to the Mustang GT according to the service department at the dealership.

 

My last concern for the clutch action taking place at a very high pedal is acceptable to my service department at my dealership also.

 

So with there being 9,000 miles on my Shelby and approaching 24 months since taking delivery, winter storage is coming soon, I guess I will continue to drive it next year and adjust my driving to compensate.

 

Any advice from anyone for my next step? Beating on it is and never will be an option for me. 75% of my 9.000 miles has been taking it back and forth to work and doing a lot of stop and go in traffic. I use neutral when I know I'm going to be sitting in one spot for a while. Not sure what my options are at this time.