Went to get my dyno runs today on my stock 08SGT

[AFBLUE]

Ok before you all get excited, keep in mind this is not a dynojet. It's a dyno dynamics dyno. While the owners told me that they have factored in a 9% correction to come within 1rwhp of a dynojet, and customers have confirmed this on local dynojet dynos, I'm skeptical based on all the stock SGT numbers I've seen on dynojets (275-285 rwhp). So I'm guessing it reading ~3.5% higher than a dynojet

 

3 runs for $60 at Dynotuned Performance (DTP) in Chesapeake, VA.

All runs were very consistent. 3rd run was the best.

 

-290.1rwhp peak @ 5290-5560 (flat across this range). It stayed above 280rwhp from 4930-to 6000 rpm.

-311 rwtq@4400rpm (eye balling chart as they only printed out exact rwhp #). Torque was above 300rwtq from 3760-4840rpm

 

An 07 SGT came in before me and had a JLT CAI and a custom tune from DTP. He got 303rwhp and 320rwtq. He was tuned to 12.0 AFR. My runs were 10.6 to 11.2 AFR in the 3700-6000 rpms.

 

So I could expect roughly 13 more rwhp and 9 rwtq from a tune to 12.0 (who knows how much is gained from a straight intake tube like JLT or Steeda elbow vs the stock rubber hose)

[68fastback]

Ok before you all get excited, keep in mind this is not a dynojet. It's a dyno dynamics dyno. While the owners told me that they have factored in a 9% correction to come within 1rwhp of a dynojet, and customers have confirmed this on local dynojet dynos, I'm skeptical based on all the stock SGT numbers I've seen on dynojets (275-285 rwhp). So I'm guessing it reading ~3.5% higher than a dynojet

 

3 runs for $60 at Dynotuned Performance (DTP) in Chesapeake, VA.

All runs were very consistent. 3rd run was the best.

 

-290.1rwhp peak @ 5290-5560 (flat across this range). It stayed above 280rwhp from 4930-to 6000 rpm.

-311 rwtq@4400rpm (eye balling chart as they only printed out exact rwhp #). Torque was above 300rwtq from 3760-4840rpm

 

An 07 SGT came in before me and had a JLT CAI and a custom tune from DTP. He got 303rwhp and 330rwtq. He was tuned to 12.0 AFR. My runs were 10.6 to 11.2 AFR in the 3700-6000 rpms.

 

So I could expect roughly 13 more rwhp and 19rwtq from a tune to 12.0 (who knows how much is gained from a straight intake tube like JLT or Steeda elbow vs the stock rubber hose)

 

I think your assessment is right on. The FRP SGT mods actualy engine-dynod at 325 from what I'd heard but the day of the SAE cert procedure yielded 319 for some unknown reason ...so, as I understand it, they went with that to not have to go thru the expense and time of another cert cycle. 325 would be 276 or so at the wheels -- right in the typical observed range you mentioned.

[AFBLUE]

I remember AmyB said they tested twice and the 1st time it came out to 319 and the 2nd came to 320 so they went with 319 to be safe.

 

Hi, The x pipe is part of the mods, its probably hidden in the power pak. The hp on the car is the same as the GT-H, the problem is when we EPA tested it came out lower, so we are not sure if the test was different, or the GT-H was 319 too even though we were told 325. we ran it again it was 320, so we are saying 319, but with the other upgrades and the bigger rear, it certainly feels like more

 

Amy

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showpost.php...p;postcount=213

[LuLu]

290 RWHP and 311 RWTQ from a bone stock SGT is very impressive...Very impressive.

 

Thanks for sharing the data.

[1badsgt]

I was at JLT Friday morning and asked him about changing out the FRP tude for a JLT. His is 89 mm were FRP is 90. Even with a tune the only difference might be a two to three HP gain. Like he said that is not enough to warrant sending the money. Stick with the FRP cold air intake and try to find a way to dress it up. If you change the tube it will cost you more money both for the tube and a retune and you will not be happy with the HP gains but it might look prettier.

[AFBLUE]

With the conservative FRP tune from SAI you will probably pick up more like 10-15rwhp just with a custom tune. That's what the dynotuned performance guys said and I tend to agree based on the dyno results of my car and the 07 SGT that was tuned by DTP.

 

Keep in mind our cars are tuned for 91 octane and are a little rich at that octane level for a safety buffer.

 

Yeah it will be hard to justify spending $500-$800 for 13rwhp and 9rwtq (based on how much more power the 07 SGT with the JLT and custom tune had over my car today).

 

Hard but not impossible :D

[AstroDan]

290 RWHP and 311 RWTQ from a bone stock SGT is very impressive...Very impressive.

 

I'd say.

 

Look at my sig numbers...

[AFBLUE]

You know I'm seeing a trend here. At the Carolina dyno days back in Mar, http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...25396&st=20

 

AmyB's comments quoted above, and my own experience, these SGTs get better with each run. The guys on the Carolina dyno run did 2 pulls each, and AmyB says the 2nd run was better than the first. As I stated earlier I did 3 runs today, and while they are very close, the 2nd was better than the 1st and the 3rd pull was the best.

 

So: If the EPA test got 319 at the crank on the first pull and 320 on the second pull, this would correspond to the 1st and 2nd pulls guys got at the Carolina dyno day. While they didn't post their 1st pulls a couple posted their last pulls. Both got 275rhwp and 295rwtq (ShelbyCobra826, Hardluck33).

 

So the 2nd pull of 275rwhp on that particular dynojet would correspond to the 2nd pull of 320 at the crank. This works out to a conversion of 14% drive train loss on this particular dynojet. On my dyno dynamics runs my 2nd pull was about 289rwhp or 4.8% higher than that particular dynojet.

 

Only reason I mention this is that many months ago I said I thought the drivetrain loss for a Mustang 4.6L manual was 12.2% (based on the first 2 SGT dynojet runs that averged 280rwhp, and the 319 at the crank from the EPA test).

 

Based on this new info, I would say 14% is probably more accurate for a Mustang GT 5 speed with factory wheels (heavier wheels will add more drivetrain loss).

 

Keep in mind that the standard 15% drivetrain loss we all here about is an average. A Mazda Miata isn't going to have the same drivetrain loss as a manual drive pickup truck. Think about it. The drive train parts are going to have different weights and thus different drivetrain loss percentages.

[SWEDEMAN]

Hmmm, very impressive.

 

PS: It must have been that you were thinking about 20" Razors which made the dyno run stronger. This has been documented in the Shelby Registry as thought patterns may raise dyno runs!

[LuLu]

I was at JLT Friday morning and asked him about changing out the FRP tude for a JLT. His is 89 mm were FRP is 90. Even with a tune the only difference might be a two to three HP gain. Like he said that is not enough to warrant sending the money. Stick with the FRP cold air intake and try to find a way to dress it up. If you change the tube it will cost you more money both for the tube and a retune and you will not be happy with the HP gains but it might look prettier.

Retuning is NOT necessary if all you do is add an aftermarket bellows (elbow) to an SGT. The improvements in air flow are minor, and well within the parameters of the SGT/FRP flexible programming. Thus, the improved bellows is for dress only and with that said, the upgrade may be worth the cost as a visual engine bay feature. You will not have to retune, a few WOT passes on any on-ramp, or, back road will do the trick.

[68fastback]

FRP quotes the FR1 power pack at +20HP, but not clear if that's on 300 (nominal) or the 305-8crank that the stock GT typically is <edit:> interesting that it's 20HP with or without the mufflers (if you check the 205-2008 cersion and then clik-thru on the CAI -- 20HP either way) - -maybe FR1 muffs just sound beter but not significantly less restriction?

 

Also, if considering a custom tune, even if you only get 13 peakHP you'll get more than that at other rpm, i.e. the area under the curve will be improved broadly and there will likely be rpm-ranges that see considerably more than 13HP, imo. Similar consideration for Tq.

 

The 2001 na Cobra (factory at 320HP) is very similar in nums and performance tothe S-GT and with an aftermarket CAI and custom tune only picks up about 23HP and 32Tq (over stock), but the difference overall, including throttle response (which the S-GT already has *some* improvement in) is huge -- like it's a whole 'nother car.

 

Just pointing out that what you get from a custom tune is much more than just peak HP/Tq improvement -- it's broad-baased improvement and dramatically improved throttle response. For example, Ford tunes have the ECU govern how quickly full power can be reapplied when you briefly lift during shifting, etc., no matter how you stomp the throttle. A custom tune can (and usually does) remove that ramp. Still might not be worth the $400 or so to some -- all depends what you're looking for since the FR1 pack does tweak throttle response and driveability a bit (but not as much as custom tune can).

[AFBLUE]

Good point on the improvements over the whole powerband with a custom tune.

[AFBLUE]

Here's the sheet

[68fastback]

Here's the sheet

 

Nice chart!! You can see the tune dumping a little extra fuel to cool the cats bwtween 3000-3500 and 4500-4900. If you had the A/F graph youi'd likely see the A/F drop a bit in those ranges. And you still made great numbers!!! :happy feet:

 

Is the Dyno Dynamics the kind of dyno where they bolt your hubs right up to it (wheels removed). If so, I've heard they can read a bit higher since removing the wheels is like a lightened driveshaft (less mass to spin-up). Still excellent nums no matter how you cut it. 290rw is +/- 341 crank (@ HP/.85) !!!

[AFBLUE]

...If you had the A/F graph youi'd likely see the A/F drop a bit in those ranges. And you still made great numbers!!! :happy feet:

 

Is the Dyno Dynamics the kind of dyno where they bolt your hubs right up to it (wheels removed). If so, I've heard they can read a bit higher since removing the wheels is like a lightened driveshaft (less mass to spin-up). Still excellent nums no matter how you cut it. 290rw is +/- 341 crank (@ HP/.85) !!!

Oh but I do have an AFR chart too...hold on I will scan and post it.

 

No, you just roll onto the cylinders like a dynojet.

[AFBLUE]

Here it is.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Ok before you all get excited, keep in mind this is not a dynojet. It's a dyno dynamics dyno. While the owners told me that they have factored in a 9% correction to come within 1rwhp of a dynojet, and customers have confirmed this on local dynojet dynos, I'm skeptical based on all the stock SGT numbers I've seen on dynojets (275-285 rwhp). So I'm guessing it reading ~3.5% higher than a dynojet

 

3 runs for $60 at Dynotuned Performance (DTP) in Chesapeake, VA.

All runs were very consistent. 3rd run was the best.

 

-290.1rwhp peak @ 5290-5560 (flat across this range). It stayed above 280rwhp from 4930-to 6000 rpm.

-311 rwtq@4400rpm (eye balling chart as they only printed out exact rwhp #). Torque was above 300rwtq from 3760-4840rpm

 

An 07 SGT came in before me and had a JLT CAI and a custom tune from DTP. He got 303rwhp and 320rwtq. He was tuned to 12.0 AFR. My runs were 10.6 to 11.2 AFR in the 3700-6000 rpms.

 

So I could expect roughly 13 more rwhp and 9 rwtq from a tune to 12.0 (who knows how much is gained from a straight intake tube like JLT or Steeda elbow vs the stock rubber hose)

 

It think your numbers are in line with magazine test numbers, back in April 2008 M/T did a dyno test of the SGT-C, Roush & Saleen & they came up with the following dyno numbers for a stock Mustang GT & the SGT-C

 

 

2008 Bone Stock Mustang claimed/base dyno numbers:

Claimed HP- 300 hp @ 5750 rpm's

Claimed Tq- 320 Tq @ 4500 rpm's

Dyno'd - 262 rwhp @ 5545 rpm's

Dyno'd - 285 rwTq @ 4170

 

2008 Shelby SGT-C claimed/base dyno numbers:

Claimed HP- 319 hp @5750 rpm's

Claimed Tq- 330 Tq @ 4500 rpm's

Dyno'd - 273 rwhp @ 5790 rpm's

Dyno'd - 304 rwTq @ 4100 rpm's

[AFBLUE]

Yes and that car (SGT-C) had the 20" razors wheels, so it will be a little lower.

[jrod]

Quick question guys, but if I disconnect my battery and hook it back up, that won't delete the SGT tune will it? Sorry for the dumb question. I think I already know the answer but thought i'd ask.

[stump_breaker]

Quick question guys, but if I disconnect my battery and hook it back up, that won't delete the SGT tune will it? Sorry for the dumb question. I think I already know the answer but thought i'd ask.

No. You will still have the correct tune. You have to physically take it out with a programmer.

[jrod]

No. You will still have the correct tune. You have to physically take it out with a programmer.

 

 

What I thought. THANKS!

[68fastback]

Here it is.

 

A/Fs on pull-3 look bee-u-tee-full ...11-11.25 across the board! No hint of any programmed cat-cooling there (Kudos to FRP/SVT engineers). The other two pulls are a bit all-over-the-place ...I would think they'd be more consistent, but someone did mention the SGT seems to pull better after a couple ...not clear why.

 

And there's more to be had with a custom tune, imo, if real 93-octane is widely available in your area since pushing up into the low-mid 12A/Fs in not especially risky.

[68fastback]

No. You will still have the correct tune. You have to physically take it out with a programmer.

 

+1

 

...it will just reset any learned sensor masks to zero -- not a problem, and it will relearn new/optimal masks in a couple days of average driving with a couple cold starts -- but the tune itself is unaffected.

[blue1]

I was at JLT Friday morning and asked him about changing out the FRP tude for a JLT. His is 89 mm were FRP is 90. Even with a tune the only difference might be a two to three HP gain. Like he said that is not enough to warrant sending the money. Stick with the FRP cold air intake and try to find a way to dress it up. If you change the tube it will cost you more money both for the tube and a retune and you will not be happy with the HP gains but it might look prettier.

 

I just bought the Steeda carbon fiber elbow and Iam planning on replacing the FRP tube. I realize that my car will require a different tune when I do this so I also bought a SCT XCalibrator 3 Mustang X3 Power Flash Tuner and the tech at Steeda told me that I will have to take my car to the dealer and have it flashed back to stock since I don't have the FRP tuner that Shelby used. Is this the best way to do do this correctly?And I also realize that I spent a boat load of $ for not a whole lot of gain but I just don't like the FRP tube.

 

Jeff

[Shelby-Don]

Many have aleady switched to this elbow and NO tune is required for merely charging to the carbon fiber elbow. If you take your car to the dealer and have him flash a stock Mustang GT tune on your PCM then your car will not run very well since we have the FRP intake. Did the tuner come with any pre-loaded tunes ? I bought a tuner with a gift certificate I recieved but the place I got it from only had one tune available so rather than keeping just the one I contacted Breenspeed and bought 3 tunes (87, 91 & 93) for $125. When you first plug in your tuner to the car it saves your stock tune in this case the Shelby tune to the unit in acse you need it in the future. I now have the choice of 3 Breenspeed tunes or reverting back to the stock Shelby tune.

[LuLu]

Many have aleady switched to this elbow and NO tune is required for merely charging to the carbon fiber elbow. If you take your car to the dealer and have him flash a stock Mustang GT tune on your PCM then your car will not run very well since we have the FRP intake. Did the tuner come with any pre-loaded tunes ? I bought a tuner with a gift certificate I recieved but the place I got it from only had one tune available so rather than keeping just the one I contacted Breenspeed and bought 3 tunes (87, 91 & 93) for $125. When you first plug in your tuner to the car it saves your stock tune in this case the Shelby tune to the unit in acse you need it in the future. I now have the choice of 3 Breenspeed tunes or reverting back to the stock Shelby tune.

+1...Agreed. No retune is required. Moreover, most popular hand-held programmers will save your incumbent tune for restoration at a later time. Doesn't matter if it's a FMC tune, or the SAI/FRP tune, it gets saved. Change out from the SAI/FRP tune with a DiabloSport, or, SCT hand-held programmer, and you will be okay down the road.

 

Likewise...Don't expect a lot in performance from an upgraded bellows (elbow). It's a smoother flow of air which enhances throttle tip-in, but it does not produce/deliver any more power than you already have present.

 

However, it does look cool...

[AstroDan]

BTW Mac, did you ever get a "good" dyno done on the post-DS install?

 

Dan

[blue1]

Many have aleady switched to this elbow and NO tune is required for merely charging to the carbon fiber elbow. If you take your car to the dealer and have him flash a stock Mustang GT tune on your PCM then your car will not run very well since we have the FRP intake. Did the tuner come with any pre-loaded tunes ? I bought a tuner with a gift certificate I recieved but the place I got it from only had one tune available so rather than keeping just the one I contacted Breenspeed and bought 3 tunes (87, 91 & 93) for $125. When you first plug in your tuner to the car it saves your stock tune in this case the Shelby tune to the unit in acse you need it in the future. I now have the choice of 3 Breenspeed tunes or reverting back to the stock Shelby tune.

 

If I had known that I would not require a tune I would not have spent anther $400 on a tuner but Amerian muscle and Steeda both specificly state that my car will have to have a new tune installed in order to run correctly using a the Steeda CAI kit or using the Steeda elbow with the FRP kit. They also ask for the pcm code and American Muscle called and told me that I would have to plug the tuner in and send him information so he could email me a tune. The tuner comes with 13 pre programmed tunes,WOT 87/91/93 CAIS ETC... I guess I could just install the elbow and see what happens. Thanks for the info.

Jeff

[68fastback]

If I had known that I would not require a tune I would not have spent anther $400 on a tuner but Amerian muscle and Steeda both specificly state that my car will have to have a new tune installed in order to run correctly using a the Steeda CAI kit or using the Steeda elbow with the FRP kit. They also ask for the pcm code and American Muscle called and told me that I would have to plug the tuner in and send him information so he could email me a tune. The tuner comes with 13 pre programmed tunes,WOT 87/91/93 CAIS ETC... I guess I could just install the elbow and see what happens. Thanks for the info.

Jeff

 

The '05 GTs were very finicky of a CAI with the stock tune. Ford must have changed something for '06 since they seem less likely to have a limp-home reaction to a CAI. And the FRP tune on the SGT is likely even moreso forgiving. The elbow *can* affect how the MAF sees the airflow (even tho it's upstream) but likely the tune will not have any problem with it. Still, the custom tune probably picked you up some area under both the HP and Tq curves ;-) even if it cost $400. Btw, if that included a tuner-box, that was a great price, imo!

[LuLu]

BTW Mac, did you ever get a "good" dyno done on the post-DS install?

 

Dan

Not yet, but it's on my list of things to get done soon. Right now, I am packing to leave for Charleston SC for 10 days, so, it won't be anytime soon. Nonetheless, I can feel the improvement in my SOTP dyno.