GT500-07 Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Damn $4 Gas! Ford kills Boss engine for F-150, Mustang http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/23/damn-4-...ustang-needs-l/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Damn $4 Gas! Ford kills Boss engine for F-150, Mustang http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/23/damn-4-...ustang-needs-l/ Good find!! and very interesting. However, a BOSS Mustang and the H/Boss engine are different things, imo. Everything I've heard says the '10MY BOSS (5.0) Mustang is is still on for next summer ...not that it can't change, but that's still current, from what I understand, as of late April. Concerning the H/Boss (which is what autoblog is talking about, imo) it's interesting that it was originally rumored for just the super-duty (same logic Autoblog stated vis a vis V10 modular replacement), then the rumors grew to F150, and then mustang. So, has anything really changed? Or is Fields just trying to manage expectations? ...or both? But the headline that "Ford kills [it] for the F150 and Mustang" is interesting nonetheless. I suspect it will still make it to the F150, just later, if the market demands it. Maybe the feeling is a GDI or GTDI modular can cover the power need for F150? If so, how is that any different than the prior plan of record? Maybe the H/Boss cost structure is significantly differnet? And since it was not likely to make it to the mustang until later anyway (if at all) I don't see that as a real change either -- just expectation management, which could be real or just business-as-usual media-management (see first bullet below) ...dunno. Also, I can't help but notice that Autoblog said: "Ford has already spent a load of cash on the beefy pushrod, so killing the program altogether would have been a tough pill to swallow." Was that a slip of the pen or gross ignorance? ...since the H/Boss is most definately *not* a pushrod engine (it's an SOHC). So I have to wonder what else else they didn't understand in what ever Mark Fields actually did/didn't say. --- A few other interesting interresects re BOSS (at least to me <lol>): Several weeks ago GM told the press that their fully-developed UV8 program (an all-new DOHC V8) is being 'put on the shelf with a big bow on top.' I've been saying for years GM will eventually move to DOHC and that their apparent love for the pushrod is one of mind-screwing marketing convenience and cost control not some delusional belief pushrods are actually better in any technological way). So does Fields know that GM's comments are gamesmanship and so Ford is just playing the game too? Dunno, maybe GM's UV8 is sheleved (whatever that means for a 'fully-developed' engine) and maybe Ford really is cancelling the H/Boss for the F150 and Mustang -- or is it just good expectation-management gamesmanship given the uncertain economic climate? Ford reopened a trademark application for "BOSS 429" with the USPTO on June 26, 2006 and proceeded to publish it for opposition on June 12, 2007. I should point out that the context for this trademark ap is "Fitted car covers; automotive sunshields; exterior insignia badges for motor vehicles." If that seems 'funny' realize that manufacturers will often clak their intentions that way since if there's no opposition in that context and since Ford has a previous trademark for the actual car name, it would then be a given that a reapplication in the context of an actual car would sail through the approval process very rapidly, so this is not unusual from what I've seen. Also USPTO issued the Notice of Allowance on Sept 4 2007 which gives Ford six month to actually use the trademark in commerce or have to apply for an extention within six months (else the mark is automaticaly abandoned). Like clockwork, Ford filed the required extention March 4, 2008 (exactly 6 months to the day) and the extention was approved on March 6, 2008, so Ford is definately holding this trademark space open, imo. If the H/Boss is truly dead for Mustang I would expect this mark to expire without extention on September 4th 2008. I suspect it will not. Of course Ford could brand an F250 Super-Duty wit the Boss 429 moniker, but what's the odds of that happening without a mustang bearing that name? We shall see what September 5th brings ;-) Ford also inititated trademark filings on a similar schedule for "Boss 302" and "Boss 351" but those have both been suspended by USPTO until Ford addresses 4 other live related marks: 75898707, 78149099, 78149101 and 78261310. Two of those are BOSS 5.0 and Boss 7.0 and are owned by G B Motor Sports LLC. The other two are "Boss Motorsports" and "Boss Motor Sports" owned by American Eagle Wheel Corporation. How these intersect with Ford's filing is unclear since I saw no filled 'complaints' by either company and the "BOSS 429" application is apparently not affected as far as USPTO is concerned, yet BOSS 302 and BOSS 351 is somehow. None of those other filings/marks are in the context of actual vehicles though, so that space in that context may still be 'open' so to speak. Further Ford owns the stand-alone mark "BOSS" (Serial Number 78089130) in a true automotive context ("Motor vehicles, namely, automobiles, trucks, vans, sport-utility vehicles, and their structural parts and engines.") so BOSS Mustang would be a slam-dunk, imo. "BOSS" was re-secured in Ford's application #19691201 (still 'live') with an original filing date October 18, 2001, so Ford has apparently been thinking "BOSS-redux" for some time now! <lol>. Lacking any new news, I guess we have to wait until Sept 4th to see if Ford abandons "BOSS 429." If so, that might either be a strong indication that the H/Boss in the mustang is truly dead or that Ford might be planning to just call it the "BOSS Mustang" or even "King Cobra" -- another mark Ford has reopened in recent years on three separate applications ...all are live; two are car hard-parts related; one is for ...floor mats! <lol> -- go figure ...possibly just clever intellectual property 'space' management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ford-paus...v8-development/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Amazing what a few media-shaping words will produce... Well, it's going into the Super Duty so I think these headlines are just designed to get attention. The article might have more cred if they actaully managed to put up a picture of the engine they're actually taking about ( that's a Nov '06 Boss 302 'redux' crate engine) ...it's amazing how out of touch and confused many of the automotive pundits/channels seem to be (maybe just like me? ) ...the link in the earlier post referred to the H/Boss as a "beefy pushrod." Hard to take this seriously since both links (and there's probably more coming) appear to just be repeating words with little understanding of what was actually said In 30-60 days we'll likely be reading the same in little snippets in colorfull little sidebars in the rag-mags :rolleyes: ...having difficulty taking this as more than ust expectation-management at this point. What does bother me is that supposedly GM's DOHC UV8 program is fully developed whereas the DOHC version of the H/Boss was rumored to still be in an earlier state of development (according to rumor) -- too bad. I can certainly believe that DOHC development is "paused" (unfortunately) especially since with EcoBost/GTDI coming it's very hard to justify an NA H/Boss in alloy for Mustang anytime soon Still, I would not count it out... those big displacements with higher compression and GTDI might be what's needed to make serious HP with the roughly 27% energy-content handicap that E85 will be bringing. Wonder if that's why the Roush/Bowles 7.0L H/Boss track-mule was running E85 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerS Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Great read as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Great read as usual. Thanks, Ross ...wish I *really* knew what was up with the H/Boss, but reading the tea leaves is part of the fun ;-) Too many years of strategic business sleuthing will do that to ya <lol> -- i.e. I actually *enjoy* trying to piece things together ...and some of the pieces I just can't talk about (either because I've said I wouldn't or it would just be inappropriate to do so). That said, I think the 5.0L Boss (revised modular) is in the bag, but I genuinely don't know what's up with the H/Boss beyond it seeming like there's nothing that's actually changed (SuperDuty first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 The article might have more cred if they actaully managed to put up a picture of the engine they're actually taking about ( that's a Nov '06 Boss 302 'redux' crate engine) ...it's amazing how out of touch and confused many of the automotive pundits/channels seem to be Actually, this writer does know - click on the picture to see the full size image and look at the picture's title.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Actually, this writer does know - click on the picture to see the full size image and look at the picture's title.... lol -- thanks, that's pretty funny!! Guess they just didn't want to bother getting a pic --- <edit:> readers of this link may also be interested in this thread too. --Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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