S7MS Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 I've been reading that the KR outperforms the Super Snake in all areas, skidpad, 0-60, etc. How is that possible when the KR lacks the additional HP provided by the upgraded supercharger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 I've been reading that the KR outperforms the Super Snake in all areas, skidpad, 0-60, etc. How is that possible when the KR lacks the additional HP provided by the upgraded supercharger? Do a search, this has already been discussed. I don't want to be rude but doesn't it seem a little troll-like to KR baiti on the SS forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revans310 Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 It's because the Person that bought the KR wallet is empty and that makes the car Faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 It's because the Person that bought the KR wallet is empty and that makes the car Faster. Follow the Colin Chapman philosophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 I've been reading that the KR outperforms the Super Snake in all areas, skidpad, 0-60, etc. How is that possible when the KR lacks the additional HP provided by the upgraded supercharger? I am not trying to keep this post going, but I have heard others say this same thing. My first question to them is, what version of the SS was being tested 600 or 725? and did the particular SS used for testing against the KR have the optional Shelby/Eibach suspension upgrade? Usually, they have no idea........... Unlike the KR, not all Super Snakes are at the same performance level, so they can not be "grouped" as all performing alike. I also want to add..........."could" the KR with it's 540h.p. out pull a 725h.p. SS from a 0-60 standstill start on stock street tires?, absolutely, the 725 "man horse power" will roast (spin) the tires much easier and further than a 540h.p. KR, both with their 3.73's. Could a KR with it's SVT tweaked suspension and soft 180 rated tires out "g" a standard Ford Racing suspension in a Super Snake, possibly? I would guess that with equal traction aids for the specific cars power level, the SS would quickly walk away from the KR. From a roll without traction being an issue, there would be something the matter if 185 extra h.p. made no difference in these two cars during acceleration trials. In the real world, not all acceleration trials are from a standstill, and most importantly, not all SS's are created equal. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7MS Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Do a search, this has already been discussed. I don't want to be rude but doesn't it seem a little troll-like to KR baiti on the SS forum? I'm not baiting. I do not understand, technically, how 540HP beats 604 or 725HP when the cars are for the most part identical. Colin Chapman aside, a lighter hood and a slightly different suspension/exhaust account for quicker times? Somehing doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 I am not trying to keep this post going, but I have heard others say this same thing. My first question to them is, what version of the SS was being tested 600 or 725? and did the particular SS used for testing against the KR have the optional Shelby/Eibach suspension upgrade? Usually, they have no idea........... Unlike the KR, not all Super Snakes are at the same performance level, so they can not be "grouped" as all performing alike. I also want to add..........."could" the KR with it's 540h.p. out pull a 725h.p. SS from a 0-60 standstill start on stock street tires?, absolutely, the 725 "man horse power" will roast (spin) the tires much easier and further than a 540h.p. KR, both with their 3.73's. Could a KR with it's SVT tweaked suspension and soft 180 rated tires out "g" a standard Ford Racing suspension in a Super Snake, possibly? I would guess that with equal traction aids for the specific cars power level, the SS would quickly walk away from the KR. From a roll without traction being an issue, there would be something the matter if 185 extra h.p. made no difference in these two cars during acceleration trials. In the real world, not all acceleration trials are from a standstill, and most importantly, not all SS's are created equal. R It's simple, you gotta be able to hook it up man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 You could have 900 h.p but if you can`t make her hook- up its just wasted H.P . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDT Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 You could have 900 h.p but if you can`t make her hook- up its just wasted H.P . Not if you like the "SMELL OF BURNNING RUBBER SMOKE"?????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 It's simple, you gotta be able to hook it up man. Total agreement^^^. That was the whole point of my post. The slower times, or lack of "hooking-up" does not in anyway mean a weaker car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I'm not baiting. I do not understand, technically, how 540HP beats 604 or 725HP when the cars are for the most part identical. Colin Chapman aside, a lighter hood and a slightly different suspension/exhaust account for quicker times? Somehing doesn't add up. The others have called it 'hooking' the power up, I'd call it putting the power down... all the same thing because it comes down to the car being able to find traction. At the end of the day, if you have a 1000bhp car that can't apply the power to the ground and gain friction, against a 100bhp car that can - you know which one will do the 0-62mph quicker I personally opted for the 605bhp SS for this very reason - 605 vs traction (or lack of!) seemed the right ratio for me (this is imho and as I said, "the right ratio for me"); however, I'm still not sure whether a 605 would fare much better against a KR because again, maybe the KR is an even better balance of performance vs the requirements of grip. Nevertheless, I believe what we are quibbling about is .02 of a second in the 0-62mph run - consider that for a moment... not a second... POINTS of a second! As in, an amount that you wouldn't even be able to count verbally because by the time you've said 'second', it is over already. This can be put down to driver error and many other factors. The 0-100mph time will be down to the ability to put the power to the ground - both cars weigh in at a similar weight and use a very similar suspension; therefore, it will be down to rubber and wheel size (and again driver error). Now, back to the KR issue - I, for one, bought a SS because I wanted a SS, not a KR. Would I have bought a KR if they weren't such silly money? Perhaps but as it stands, the Super Snake is more than 0-62 or 0-100 times for me, it is the entire package. If I wanted to go fast, I could do it for much less but that would be missing the point... I wouldn't have a Super Snake parked in the garage, and for me, that was what I wanted. Bragging rights are something I lost interest in years ago - what the car means to me, the sense of occasion behind the wheel and the intangible soul of the vehicle are what excite me now... and, those things you can't data log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I've been reading that the KR outperforms the Super Snake in all areas, skidpad, 0-60, etc. How is that possible when the KR lacks the additional HP provided by the upgraded supercharger? Rule #1 - To go fast you must be able to put the power to the ground to go fast Rule #2 - 18" rims/wheels with a lower treadwear rating will out perform 20" rims/wheels with a harder compound (higher treadwear rating) Rule #3 - Always work on Maximizing Handling 1st & then HP to match the limitations of the suspension & car balance. Rule #4 - More HP doesn't always mean it's the baddest/fastest or Best car on earth when it comes to road racing. Rule #5 - Rule #1 is the most important & should be your 1st modifications to the car just like it was with the KR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Want some popcorn Coldy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 How about some jelly beans or carmel corn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 How about some jelly beans or carmel corn? I prefer Cracker Jack.... :D R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I prefer Cracker Jack.... :D R +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08ss0075 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 +1 I don't think it matters either way,if you see that video from the Mid-(forgot) meet from Caroll Shelby,"I just signed a contract to take me to 91 years old, hope I'm still standing." These cars are here to stay and with the likes of Ford and Caroll, we're always in the driver's seat. Pick whatever ride you want,it's the people that make them fun and you crack me up with the comments sometimes. Think it was mid-america.Sure like the way everyone jokes around. To me this team makes me feel young and alive again. Anyways that was my moment. Any of you guys going to Terlingua? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB8SNK Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Rule #1 - To go fast you must be able to put the power to the ground to go fastRule #2 - 18" rims/wheels with a lower treadwear rating will out perform 20" rims/wheels with a harder compound (higher treadwear rating) Rule #3 - Always work on Maximizing Handling 1st & then HP to match the limitations of the suspension & car balance. Rule #4 - More HP doesn't always mean it's the baddest/fastest or Best car on earth when it comes to road racing. Rule #5 - Rule #1 is the most important & should be your 1st modifications to the car just like it was with the KR Well put... HP is over rated if you can't use it. I think for most, the 500+ out the door is plenty. If I can keep my car (see my posts) All I plan on is some minor tweaking... FRPP CAI and tune, and SVT1 exhaust... jus to clean things up, and make it sound better.. yes I will gain some HP, but not the intent, mine is to refine the existing HP and if I gain a little, fine. Other than that, I like it as it sits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksnake Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Well put... HP is over rated if you can't use it. I think for most, the 500+ out the door is plenty. If I can keep my car (see my posts) All I plan on is some minor tweaking... FRPP CAI and tune, and SVT1 exhaust... jus to clean things up, and make it sound better.. yes I will gain some HP, but not the intent, mine is to refine the existing HP and if I gain a little, fine. Other than that, I like it as it sits! The SS times they keep taking about were the ones from the 605hp. Even with the ecessive wheel spin, several 725hp cars are low 11s with 20 inch wheels and tires - faster than the KR and much higher trap speeds - in the 130s vs 115. Higher trap speeds mean more potential. Tread wear on the P Zeros was 220 - too high for any kind of launch traction. The F1 Goodyears hook better and have a lower tread wear. A set of Nitto 305 drag radials would work well if you want to keep 20s and get a good launch. I am not impressed with the P Zero tires at all so far. Mike :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 The SS times they keep taking about were the ones from the 605hp. Even with the ecessive wheel spin, several 725hp cars are low 11s with 20 inch wheels and tires - faster than the KR and much higher trap speeds - in the 130s vs 115. Higher trap speeds mean more potential. Tread wear on the P Zeros was 220 - too high for any kind of launch traction. The F1 Goodyears hook better and have a lower tread wear. A set of Nitto 305 drag radials would work well if you want to keep 20s and get a good launch. I am not impressed with the P Zero tires at all so far. Mike :happy feet: I have contemplated the "Rule #1" that was posted above, and agree that it is true, SVT has done a good job. I don't think that the Super Snake was going that direction from the begining, maybe I am wrong. But one thing that keeps popping up in my mind, "if" the KR is highly tweaked now, what is the competition? and in what forum? Super Stock drag racing? street racing to the local car show? magazine reviews? We know that S/C engines suffer from heat issues so the KR handles well, but once the S/C gets heat soaked it falls off, no magic there. So much for road racing without cooling mods. Would a Super Snake even be in the same class as the KR in the drag racing arena? It certainly is not a Ford assy. line offering as are most of the Super Stock class cars. If they (KR & SS) were to compete in some sort of a "heads-up" drag test, drag radials would be the minimum for each car, if not slicks. So once the power is "put to the ground" which car will out-pull the other? Would either of these cars use their stock 18's or 20's and the original tires if they were in a real competition, I wouldn't think so? I would guess that each car would be outfitted with the appropriate wheel/tire combos for the specific type of racing? Does it really matter if the SS has 20's and does not put the power down efficiently for the drive to the car show or for a magazine review? If these two cars were to be in real competition against each other, they would not have street tires, and the wheel choice would be appropriate for the competition type. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksnake Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have contemplated the "Rule #1" that was posted above, and agree that it is true, SVT has done a good job. I don't think that the Super Snake was going that direction from the begining, maybe I am wrong. But one thing that keeps popping up in my mind, "if" the KR is highly tweaked now, what is the competition? and in what forum? Super Stock drag racing? street racing to the local car show? magazine reviews? We know that S/C engines suffer from heat issues so the KR handles well, but once the S/C gets heat soaked it falls off, no magic there. So much for road racing without cooling mods. Would a Super Snake even be in the same class as the KR in the drag racing arena? It certainly is not a Ford assy. line offering as are most of the Super Stock class cars. If they (KR & SS) were to compete in some sort of a "heads-up" drag test, drag radials would be the minimum for each car, if not slicks. So once the power is "put to the ground" which car will out-pull the other? Would either of these cars use their stock 18's or 20's and the original tires if they were in a real competition, I wouldn't think so? I would guess that each car would be outfitted with the appropriate wheel/tire combos for the specific type of racing? Does it really matter if the SS has 20's and does not put the power down efficiently for the drive to the car show or for a magazine review? If these two cars were to be in real competition against each other, they would not have street tires, and the wheel choice would be appropriate for the competition type. R The only problem I have is the Super Snake should have had a wider tire and wheel package from the start and most all but the ignorant tried to get that changed from the start. Having had the KB Blower on before the SS Package, I knew what was going to happen. Big egos got in the way and now we have to pay more to get it right. I do not know about you, but I did not buy this package to be all show. Being a hot rodder and mechanic gives me a little edge. I am fixing the weak links. It is just sad that nobody would listen up front. I could not even get a response to the seversal e-mails I sent on the subject. Real performance and not blue smoke should be the goal of any real performance car builder. I have seen a few Shelby car worshippers that do not care I am ok with that also. Shelby himself was not like that. He built cars to win races - not pretend. That is what made him a legend. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 The only problem I have is the Super Snake should have had a wider tire and wheel package from the start and most all but the ignorant tried to get that changed from the start. Having had the KB Blower on before the SS Package, I knew what was going to happen. Big egos got in the way and now we have to pay more to get it right. I do not know about you, but I did not buy this package to be all show. Being a hot rodder and mechanic gives me a little edge. I am fixing the weak links. It is just sad that nobody would listen up front. I could not even get a response to the seversal e-mails I sent on the subject. Real performance and not blue smoke should be the goal of any real performance car builder. I have seen a few Shelby car worshippers that do not care I am ok with that also. Shelby himself was not like that. He built cars to win races - not pretend.That is what made him a legend. Mike Yes Mike, I like to "briskly sprint" at times also, and a little more grip in the rear section would be nice when my SS is built. But in reality, I believe that even an 11" wide rim will only be a small gain, and when some of these cars are used for competition, the 20's will be replaced with something more suited for the car and its performance level. It is the same way with the KR, the magazine tests are great, but those 18's will not be what is used if the car is pressed into real performance duty. That is why I question, what do the magazine times really tell us, or in the real world, what do they matter? One car is tweaked on street tires, and the other has much more potential............ R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksnake Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yes Mike, I like to "briskly sprint" at times also, and a little more grip in the rear section would be nice when my SS is built. But in reality, I believe that even an 11" wide rim will only be a small gain, and when some of these cars are used for competition, the 20's will be replaced with something more suited for the car and its performance level. It is the same way with the KR, the magazine tests are great, but those 18's will not be what is used if the car is pressed into real performance duty. That is why I question, what do the magazine times really tell us, or in the real world, what do they matter? One car is tweaked on street tires, and the other has much more potential............ R I have seen the right rubber on 20s take people into the 10s with less horsepower. I just saw a Saleen 302 make it to low 11s on 305 20s. The right tire setup can do wonders. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I have seen the right rubber on 20s take people into the 10s with less horsepower. I just saw a Saleen 302 make it to low 11s on 305 20s. The right tire setup can do wonders. Mike What about the 20's and handling? I am not a road course guy, but I have heard many say the 18's are much better OR is it really all back to the tire choice again? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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