Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

E-85 gasoline


Recommended Posts

As I type this, Chicago has the highest gasoline prices in the country. Down the street from my house, Citgo is 4.05.9 for 87 octane and 4.29.9 for 93 octane. Outrageous!

 

Well, they also have E-85 gasoline on tap for 3.79.9 per gallon, and since my 2008 Mercury Gran Marquis is E-85 compliant, I thought I would try a tankful. So, I ran the tank as dry as I dared and filled up with 18 gallons of E-85. I reset my gauges and monitors and gave it a shot.

 

My SGT on 93 octane, averages 28-29 MPG in cruise mode.

My GM on 87 octane averages 23-24 MPG in cruise mode.

My GM on E-85 (unknown octane) averaged 16-17 MPG in cruise mode. I normally get 365-375 miles per tank, but after this week's experiment with E-85, I got only 312 miles to empty.

 

This must be one of life's little jokes, and I missed the punch line. The MPG of E-85 is in the toilet, and even if it is cheaper per gallon, you don't get your money's worth. Maybe some of y'all have tried this, and maybe your results were different. But, IMHO, this whole E-85 thingy is a hoax on the American consumer. As of yesterday, I'm back on 87 octane, and I found it out in the sticks (near my shop) for 3.99.9 per gallon, due to different local tax structures. If changing my driving habits is in order, so be it.

 

Just my .02C, happy motoring, gents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's consistent with what I've heard. E-85 gets about 2/3 the MPG you can expect with fossil fuels. Originally, the assumption was it'd be about 1/2 the cost. It hasn't turned out that way and has had several unintended consequences that make the whole idea a failure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, you should see about a 30% mpg decrease with E-85. Plus is generates a lot more ozone than gasoline, which is worse than CO2. There's not nearly enough land mass on the planet to grow enough corn to relieve our dependence on gas AND feed us, and all it's doing in jacking up the price of food. You want to pay more for gas or more for food? I can take my bike to work. I can't stop eating.

 

E-85 is a joke and should be banned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - E85 provides less miles per gallon and while the cost of E85 may be a bit less it is not quite enough to cover the the difference in milage.

 

The trouble with any alcohol based fuel is that alcohol evaporates in a system designed for gasoline (it is able to breathe) with alcohol if it is able to breathe it evaporates lowering the miles per gallon. If the system could be closed and tigher to prevent evaporation that would help some more, but still would not reach the levels of milage of gasoline.

 

While I know E85 is made out of feed corn (not what humans would eat) - making alcohol based fuels from what we consider garbage makes more sense and costs nothing so the only gotcha would be someone to ferment all this alcohol generated from all plant material (grass, vegtable peels, fruit peals, rotton fruit and vegtables, any other plant debris). If we could get back to around $1 with that it would help with the poorer miles per gallon.

 

True alcohol burns hotter than gasoline since there are less impurities - and it has different emissions from the burn. Though - any other fuel options will be hard to get to market with how strong both financially and from a business aspect the gasoline industry is. Many are picking up on the profits while our food cost go up from the high fuel costs and our cost to get to work continues to rise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First let me say Im a Indiana farmer and grow corn and ethanol plants are very close to me. E85 is not the best blend but e10 or e20 is and will not cut mileage but a small amount. Also using ethanol blends creates jobs in the US and the less money we send the Arabs who want to kill us the better in my view. As far as ethanol running up food cost. If there is 25 cents worth of a bushel of corn in a box of corn flakes its not driving up food cost ,if corn cost per bushel go up ten times the price before Ethanol. Its transportation of food thats causing it to go up. Look in a box of corn flakes you could cut the top half of the box off and still not hit the corn flakes extra cost just for the not needed box. As far as fuel cost farmers are planting corn now I will use 500 gallons a day in my farm tractors to plant this crop so I understand rising fuel cost very well. I hope I have shed some light on Etanol and food cost its a complex problem right now. Try blending half a tank ofe85 and regular gas to get a mixture closer to e20 and see if you get better results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like you saved about $4.68 a tank full to fill up but when broken down per mile it cost you about $0.02 more per mile to use E-85 based on 1 tank full. One thing to consider is E-85 burns cleaner, has less emissions & you can go further between oil changes, so over a years times 2 or 3 less oil changes may prove to be an advantage after you figure out the cost savings from oil changes/filters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being in the engine business...at least small engines....I can assure you the E 85 is a joke. While it might "work" in your car it has been proven to provide less power and less mileage...or course less cost. But, the less cost is subsidized by our government. For those of you who are interested, don't make the mistake of putting anything beyond e 10 into your motorcycle, lawnmower, chainsaw, trimmer, snowmobile or boat. Simply stated, most of them will eventually seize. Also if you are interested the fuel lines will eventually disintergrate, not a pretty picture. These off road products can be built for ethanol but the percent has to be consistent. Not 15% in this state and 85% in that state. The bloom of the ethanol picture is starting to wear off due to good citizens like Lulu confirming the facts. Be careful what you put in your fuel tanks...all of them. Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched a CNBC interview yesterday with Boone Pickens. The founder of Mesa Petroleum and pretty big guy in the energy industry. This bit of insight stood out to me....Ethanol is replacing 3% of our gasoline while using 30% of our corn. I dont remember who it was but another person said Ethanol will only be able to replace 5% of our gasoline. Pickens advice on energy is we need to be looking at Natural Gas. According to him we could reduce our oil imports by 40% if we were using natural gas better.

 

Also, I am all for not giving our money to questionable allies in the middle east but the vast majority of our imported oil comes from our allies to the north and south, as questionable as they may be. :hysterical:

 

Lastly, from what I understand, as long as China's economy continues to grow they will absorb whatever oil we conserve. Although there are some inflation factors this is still a supply and demand condition. 85 million barrells are produced a day, while the global economy uses 87 million.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched a CNBC interview yesterday with Boone Pickens. The founder of Mesa Petroleum and pretty big guy in the energy industry. This bit of insight stood out to me....Ethanol is replacing 3% of our gasoline while using 30% of our corn. I dont remember who it was but another person said Ethanol will only be able to replace 5% of our gasoline. Pickens advice on energy is we need to be looking at Natural Gas. According to him we could reduce our oil imports by 40% if we were using natural gas better.

 

Also, I am all for not giving our money to questionable allies in the middle east but the vast majority of our imported oil comes from our allies to the north and south, as questionable as they may be. :hysterical:

 

Lastly, from what I understand, as long as China's economy continues to grow they will absorb whatever oil we conserve. Although there are some inflation factors this is still a supply and demand condition. 85 million barrells are produced a day, while the global economy uses 87 million.

 

Excellent post. You hit the nail on the head about China. We no longer hold all the cards in the oil business. The cartels now have other players like India, and China. You think its bad now, wait until they start rebuilding in China. Myanmar doesnt care about its people so the cost of huts will only rise;) I have done some reading on Ethanol lately and we have recently switched over to E10 in Souther Maine and they say it only saves us 5 cents a gallon on average but you lost mileage. Not only that any oilder engines or fuel systems are succestible to ethanol dissolving crap in the tank and lines and screwing things up in the carbs and injectors. There has been several boat issues with fiberglass tanks already as well. In the end this stuff is not our answer. No offense to whomever farms. And dont even get me started on the farm subsidies.

The oil companies should use some of those HUGE profits they are making, build a few refineries here in the US, and stop pumping oil here. I know - probably a knee jerk comment - but the price of gas/diesel is getting to me :)

Drill in ANWR, off Florida, and remove oil shale from North Dakota all you want. The prices are going nuts because of speculators not supply and demand. And currently I read some refineries are switching from gas to deisel because of the high demand in Europe. So this somewhat negates the "we dont have enough refining capacity" BS. Bend over and enjoy it America because they can and will continue to stick it to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the great thoughts on this, gents. Keep it flowing, it will take our minds off of the hood scoop issue.

 

Some additional thoughts after my first post, not in any order.

 

I may be (partially) responsible for my poor MPG. I posted the numbers, but I didn't mention performance. In a word...Sucks...Literally. Sucks gas, sucks power...Sucks.

 

My GM weighs just under 4500 pounds, with a 4.6L-2V non-PI engine. Primary acceleration and throttle tip-in suffered badly with the E-85, and the tranny seemed to "lose" it's place often in city driving. I may have been "stabbing" the throttle to keep up with traffic, and I'm sure this had something to do with my observed MPG, but not all of it.

 

I could emotionally adjust to lower MPG and lacking performance, but not at these prices. This is what makes it all a sham/scam on us. Half performance should be half price. At 2.79.9, I'd be a loyal user. I won't hug a tree here, but maybe those folks marching outside my house would tone it down a bit?

 

My disappointment with fuel prices doesn't stop here. I burn 106 octane in my race cars and I buy that by the 55 gal. drum delivered to the shop. My refill arrived today, 800 bucks C.O.D. That's roughly 14.50 a gallon, and I'll burn 3-4 gallons in a 50 lap feature. Now, if I was skilled (lucky) enough to win a race once in a while, the purse wouldn't pay the fuel costs for the night.

 

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been very leery of E85 gasoline ever since I had to run it in my 96 GT while I was in Maui,Hawaii for a year. I had the car shipped there while I was there, ran the E85 because that was all I could get there, and after I got back to the Mainland, I reverted back to regular gasoline, but discovered that the fuel tank had developed a major leak at the gasket where the sending unit mounts on top of the tank...it was due to the E85 I believe, because I had replaced the gasket shortly before I went to Hawaii when I replaced the fuel pump. I contribute the gasket failure to the E85 eating away at it...that's the only thing I could figure, because it sure didn't leak before I went to Hawaii after replacing the gasket and pump...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been very leery of E85 gasoline ever since I had to run it in my 96 GT while I was in Maui,Hawaii for a year. I had the car shipped there while I was there, ran the E85 because that was all I could get there, and after I got back to the Mainland, I reverted back to regular gasoline, but discovered that the fuel tank had developed a major leak at the gasket where the sending unit mounts on top of the tank...it was due to the E85 I believe, because I had replaced the gasket shortly before I went to Hawaii when I replaced the fuel pump. I contribute the gasket failure to the E85 eating away at it...that's the only thing I could figure, because it sure didn't leak before I went to Hawaii after replacing the gasket and pump...

 

If your vehicle is not designed and manufactured to run e85 (and certainly a 96 Mustang was not), it will corrode fuel system parts not designed to resist that corrosive effect. So, I hope nobody is trying this in anything except a vehicle designed to run on the stuff - and our Shelbys are not!!!

 

I concluded some time ago that there is no sense in trying e85 until it costs much less per mile to use it. I agree that, at the present time, its a completely failed concept. And, fact is, it IS running up the cost of food.

 

I really hate to say it, being a conservative republican, but I'm afraid that maybe the Gov't does indeed need to step in to get control of these oil and gas prices in some manner. Something very fishy, unethical and/or out-of-control is going on that is causing the prices to skyrocket so badly...and causing a few people to get very, very unreasonably greedy rich at the expense of many good people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm an Environmental regulations manager or whatever title you want to tack on to what I do. I have beat this subject to death on other forums.

Ethanol is Satan's fuel.

I could give facts and what not but it's pretty obvious E85 has been rammed down our throats without the proper (or maybe falsified?) studies. E85 or otherwise "biofuels" are VOC producers, worse than gas. There is nothing clean about them so if you think you're using Ethanol to help the environment, think again. Your contributing to smog.

You can not have something for nothing. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction".

 

On the one side lets scream "Global warming" or "Man-Made Global Warming" and on the other lets force a product into our tanks which will contribute to the before mentioned hyperbole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the great thoughts on this, gents. Keep it flowing, it will take our minds off of the hood scoop issue.

 

Some additional thoughts after my first post, not in any order.

 

I may be (partially) responsible for my poor MPG. I posted the numbers, but I didn't mention performance. In a word...Sucks...Literally. Sucks gas, sucks power...Sucks.

 

My GM weighs just under 4500 pounds, with a 4.6L-2V non-PI engine. Primary acceleration and throttle tip-in suffered badly with the E-85, and the tranny seemed to "lose" it's place often in city driving. I may have been "stabbing" the throttle to keep up with traffic, and I'm sure this had something to do with my observed MPG, but not all of it.

 

I could emotionally adjust to lower MPG and lacking performance, but not at these prices. This is what makes it all a sham/scam on us. Half performance should be half price. At 2.79.9, I'd be a loyal user. I won't hug a tree here, but maybe those folks marching outside my house would tone it down a bit?

 

My disappointment with fuel prices doesn't stop here. I burn 106 octane in my race cars and I buy that by the 55 gal. drum delivered to the shop. My refill arrived today, 800 bucks C.O.D. That's roughly 14.50 a gallon, and I'll burn 3-4 gallons in a 50 lap feature. Now, if I was skilled (lucky) enough to win a race once in a while, the purse wouldn't pay the fuel costs for the night.

 

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

 

Yes Fertlizer has gone up, it has tripled to last years costs, urea has gone up $150. per ton this month as has many pest control products, herbcide products as corn crop need 6LBS of N per thousand as lawns require half to one lb per thousand so the extra corn crops are making these products short supply, as the world markit is needing more raw material to grow their crops, and look at the euro it is worth more so ware do you think the fertlizer is now going? :censored:

Post Options

Enable emoticons?

Enable signature?

Enable email notification of replies?

 

Post Icons

(Optional)

 

[ Use None ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last 10 Posts [ In reverse order ]

stump_breakerPosted Today, 08:22 PM

I'm an Environmental regulations manager or whatever title you want to tack on to what I do. I have beat this subject to death on other forums.

Ethanol is Satan's fuel.

I could give facts and what not but it's pretty obvious E85 has been rammed down our throats without the proper (or maybe falsified?) studies. E85 or otherwise "biofuels" are VOC producers, worse than gas. There is nothing clean about them so if you think you're using Ethanol to help the environment, think again. Your contributing to smog.

You can not have something for nothing. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction".

 

On the one side lets scream "Global warming" or "Man-Made Global Warming" and on the other lets force a product into our tanks which will contribute to the before mentioned hyperbole.

pnicholsonPosted Today, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (ColdwaterHotrod @ May 21 2008, 05:16 PM)

it's a no win situtation until we switch to NPG or LPG

 

 

 

Or start drilling and refining our own right here

ColdwaterHotrodPosted Today, 08:16 PM

Our enemies have figured out if they can't kill us with bomb attacks then they'll kill us by buying up all the oil stock & oil futures which will then make us spend all our money on gasoline which then goes back to them. it's a no win situtation until we switch to NPG or LPG

ilmorPosted Today, 07:32 PM

QUOTE (motorjock205 @ May 21 2008, 05:40 PM)

I've been very leery of E85 gasoline ever since I had to run it in my 96 GT while I was in Maui,Hawaii for a year. I had the car shipped there while I was there, ran the E85 because that was all I could get there, and after I got back to the Mainland, I reverted back to regular gasoline, but discovered that the fuel tank had developed a major leak at the gasket where the sending unit mounts on top of the tank...it was due to the E85 I believe, because I had replaced the gasket shortly before I went to Hawaii when I replaced the fuel pump. I contribute the gasket failure to the E85 eating away at it...that's the only thing I could figure, because it sure didn't leak before I went to Hawaii after replacing the gasket and pump...

 

 

If your vehicle is not designed and manufactured to run e85 (and certainly a 96 Mustang was not), it will corrode fuel system parts not designed to resist that corrosive effect. So, I hope nobody is trying this in anything except a vehicle designed to run on the stuff - and our Shelbys are not!!!

 

I concluded some time ago that there is no sense in trying e85 until it costs much less per mile to use it. I agree that, at the present time, its a completely failed concept. And, fact is, it IS running up the cost of food.

 

I really hate to say it, being a conservative republican, but I'm afraid that maybe the Gov't does indeed need to step in to get control of these oil and gas prices in some manner. Something very fishy, unethical and/or out-of-control is going on that is causing the prices to skyrocket so badly...and causing a few people to get very, very unreasonably greedy rich at the expense of many good people.

motorjock205Posted Today, 05:40 PM

I've been very leery of E85 gasoline ever since I had to run it in my 96 GT while I was in Maui,Hawaii for a year. I had the car shipped there while I was there, ran the E85 because that was all I could get there, and after I got back to the Mainland, I reverted back to regular gasoline, but discovered that the fuel tank had developed a major leak at the gasket where the sending unit mounts on top of the tank...it was due to the E85 I believe, because I had replaced the gasket shortly before I went to Hawaii when I replaced the fuel pump. I contribute the gasket failure to the E85 eating away at it...that's the only thing I could figure, because it sure didn't leak before I went to Hawaii after replacing the gasket and pump...

pnicholsonPosted Today, 05:32 PM

QUOTE (LuLu @ May 21 2008, 02:28 PM)

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

 

 

 

Hey there,

 

I have a BUNCH of stamps I could sell you at a good price

LuLuPosted Today, 05:28 PM

Thanks for all the great thoughts on this, gents. Keep it flowing, it will take our minds off of the hood scoop issue.

 

Some additional thoughts after my first post, not in any order.

 

I may be (partially) responsible for my poor MPG. I posted the numbers, but I didn't mention performance. In a word...Sucks...Literally. Sucks gas, sucks power...Sucks.

 

My GM weighs just under 4500 pounds, with a 4.6L-2V non-PI engine. Primary acceleration and throttle tip-in suffered badly with the E-85, and the tranny seemed to "lose" it's place often in city driving. I may have been "stabbing" the throttle to keep up with traffic, and I'm sure this had something to do with my observed MPG, but not all of it.

 

I could emotionally adjust to lower MPG and lacking performance, but not at these prices. This is what makes it all a sham/scam on us. Half performance should be half price. At 2.79.9, I'd be a loyal user. I won't hug a tree here, but maybe those folks marching outside my house would tone it down a bit?

 

My disappointment with fuel prices doesn't stop here. I burn 106 octane in my race cars and I buy that by the 55 gal. drum delivered to the shop. My refill arrived today, 800 bucks C.O.D. That's roughly 14.50 a gallon, and I'll burn 3-4 gallons in a 50 lap feature. Now, if I was skilled (lucky) enough to win a race once in a while, the purse wouldn't pay the fuel costs for the night.

 

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

WebbaPosted Today, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (ShelbyPilot @ May 21 2008, 02:39 PM)

I watched a CNBC interview yesterday with Boone Pickens. The founder of Mesa Petroleum and pretty big guy in the energy industry. This bit of insight stood out to me....Ethanol is replacing 3% of our gasoline while using 30% of our corn. I dont remember who it was but another person said Ethanol will only be able to replace 5% of our gasoline. Pickens advice on energy is we need to be looking at Natural Gas. According to him we could reduce our oil imports by 40% if we were using natural gas better.

 

Also, I am all for not giving our money to questionable allies in the middle east but the vast majority of our imported oil comes from our allies to the north and south, as questionable as they may be.

 

Lastly, from what I understand, as long as China's economy continues to grow they will absorb whatever oil we conserve. Although there are some inflation factors this is still a supply and demand condition. 85 million barrells are produced a day, while the global economy uses 87 million.

 

 

Excellent post. You hit the nail on the head about China. We no longer hold all the cards in the oil business. The cartels now have other players like India, and China. You think its bad now, wait until they start rebuilding in China. Myanmar doesnt care about its people so the cost of huts will only rise;) I have done some reading on Ethanol lately and we have recently switched over to E10 in Souther Maine and they say it only saves us 5 cents a gallon on average but you lost mileage. Not only that any oilder engines or fuel systems are succestible to ethanol dissolving crap in the tank and lines and screwing things up in the carbs and injectors. There has been several boat issues with fiberglass tanks already as well. In the end this stuff is not our answer. No offense to whomever farms. And dont even get me started on the farm subsidies.

 

QUOTE (pnicholson @ May 21 2008, 02:42 PM)

The oil companies should use some of those HUGE profits they are making, build a few refineries here in the US, and stop pumping oil here. I know - probably a knee jerk comment - but the price of gas/diesel is getting to me

 

Drill in ANWR, off Florida, and remove oil shale from North Dakota all you want. The prices are going nuts because of speculators not supply and demand. And currently I read some refineries are switching from gas to deisel because of the high demand in Europe. So this somewhat negates the "we dont have enough refining capacity" BS. Bend over and enjoy it America because they can and will continue to stick it to us.

pnicholsonPosted Today, 02:42 PM

The oil companies should use some of those HUGE profits they are making, build a few refineries here in the US, and stop pumping oil here. I know - probably a knee jerk comment - but the price of gas/diesel is getting to me

ShelbyPilotPosted Today, 02:39 PM

I watched a CNBC interview yesterday with Boone Pickens. The founder of Mesa Petroleum and pretty big guy in the energy industry. This bit of insight stood out to me....Ethanol is replacing 3% of our gasoline while using 30% of our corn. I dont remember who it was but another person said Ethanol will only be able to replace 5% of our gasoline. Pickens advice on energy is we need to be looking at Natural Gas. According to him we could reduce our oil imports by 40% if we were using natural gas better.

 

Also, I am all for not giving our money to questionable allies in the middle east but the vast majority of our imported oil comes from our allies to the north and south, as questionable as they may be.

 

Lastly, from what I understand, as long as China's economy continues to grow they will absorb whatever oil we conserve. Although there are some inflation factors this is still a supply and demand condition. 85 million barrells are produced a day, while the global economy uses 87 million.

Review the complete topic (launches new window)

 

 

TeamShelby.com

GT500 Tech & Mods

Shelby GT & GT-H English Lo-Fi VersionTime is now: 21st May 2008 - 09:39 PM

 

Powered By IP.Board © 2008 IPS, Inc.

| Privacy Policy | California Privacy Policy | T.O.S. | D.M.C.A. |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the great thoughts on this, gents. Keep it flowing, it will take our minds off of the hood scoop issue.

 

Some additional thoughts after my first post, not in any order.

 

I may be (partially) responsible for my poor MPG. I posted the numbers, but I didn't mention performance. In a word...Sucks...Literally. Sucks gas, sucks power...Sucks.

 

My GM weighs just under 4500 pounds, with a 4.6L-2V non-PI engine. Primary acceleration and throttle tip-in suffered badly with the E-85, and the tranny seemed to "lose" it's place often in city driving. I may have been "stabbing" the throttle to keep up with traffic, and I'm sure this had something to do with my observed MPG, but not all of it.

 

I could emotionally adjust to lower MPG and lacking performance, but not at these prices. This is what makes it all a sham/scam on us. Half performance should be half price. At 2.79.9, I'd be a loyal user. I won't hug a tree here, but maybe those folks marching outside my house would tone it down a bit?

 

My disappointment with fuel prices doesn't stop here. I burn 106 octane in my race cars and I buy that by the 55 gal. drum delivered to the shop. My refill arrived today, 800 bucks C.O.D. That's roughly 14.50 a gallon, and I'll burn 3-4 gallons in a 50 lap feature. Now, if I was skilled (lucky) enough to win a race once in a while, the purse wouldn't pay the fuel costs for the night.

 

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

 

 

Yes Fertlizer has gone up, it has tripled to last years costs, urea has gone up $150. per ton this month as has many pest control products, herbcide products as corn crop need 6LBS of N per thousand as lawns require half to one lb per thousand so the extra corn crops are making these products short supply, as the world markit is needing more raw material to grow their crops, and look at the euro it is worth more so ware do you think the fertlizer is now going?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the great thoughts on this, gents. Keep it flowing, it will take our minds off of the hood scoop issue.

 

Some additional thoughts after my first post, not in any order.

 

I may be (partially) responsible for my poor MPG. I posted the numbers, but I didn't mention performance. In a word...Sucks...Literally. Sucks gas, sucks power...Sucks.

 

My GM weighs just under 4500 pounds, with a 4.6L-2V non-PI engine. Primary acceleration and throttle tip-in suffered badly with the E-85, and the tranny seemed to "lose" it's place often in city driving. I may have been "stabbing" the throttle to keep up with traffic, and I'm sure this had something to do with my observed MPG, but not all of it.

 

I could emotionally adjust to lower MPG and lacking performance, but not at these prices. This is what makes it all a sham/scam on us. Half performance should be half price. At 2.79.9, I'd be a loyal user. I won't hug a tree here, but maybe those folks marching outside my house would tone it down a bit?

 

My disappointment with fuel prices doesn't stop here. I burn 106 octane in my race cars and I buy that by the 55 gal. drum delivered to the shop. My refill arrived today, 800 bucks C.O.D. That's roughly 14.50 a gallon, and I'll burn 3-4 gallons in a 50 lap feature. Now, if I was skilled (lucky) enough to win a race once in a while, the purse wouldn't pay the fuel costs for the night.

 

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

 

With friends like us, you have an endless supply of fertilizer, Mac!! :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

E-85 ethanol does get less miles per gallon because it contains less BTUs (British Thermal Units). In layman's terms it has less explosive power than gasoline. Re the price of gas I really don't feel conservation is the answer as we do not control the oil spigot. We could reduce our consumption by 10% and the Arabs could cut production by 10%. Plus, even if we conserve 10-20% the rise in demand in India and China grows faster than we can possibly conserve. Again, we don't control the spigot. We need our own oil and more refineries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

E-85 ethanol does get less miles per gallon because it contains less BTUs (British Thermal Units). In layman's terms it has less explosive power than gasoline. Re the price of gas I really don't feel conservation is the answer as we do not control the oil spigot. We could reduce our consumption by 10% and the Arabs could cut production by 10%. Plus, even if we conserve 10-20% the rise in demand in India and China grows faster than we can possibly conserve. Again, we don't control the spigot. We need our own oil and more refineries.

I endorse this post :hysterical:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot for the life of me understand why ethanol is the bio-fuel endorsed by the feds through credits etc. Bio-diesel can be made with oil derived from rapeseed plants and can be made 100% US. I have been putting 100% US made bio-diesel in 2 vehicles for a total of over 60k combined miles for about 3 years...no and I mean no problems. One is a 1980 model year and the other is a 2005 model year. No money to foriegn countries and less pollution. Some bio-d is made from imported palm oil, this is evil stuff. Clearcut rainforest derived and then uses alot of energy to ship to US bio-d plants. The USA made stuff makes me proud to support my country. Ethanol sucks and I have also read about it ruining marine tanks and systems. My diesel vehicles get excellent milage and are dead reliable. Diesels rule for simplicity and reliability. If you own a diesel vehicle check it out, just make sure the stuff is not imported palm oil derived. It works. E-85 don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One reason we are using E-85 is politics and feel good legislation. The politicians are pandering to the farmers lobby and they can beat on their collective chests and tell the voters we are saving oil. Looks good but no substance. Actually, it takes more energy to create the gasohol than it saves. There is other promising bio fuels on the horizon including a celoistic (sic) type plants which would not have an effect on food prices. And we may all have to get used to diesels as I see their becoming more prolific, especially turbo diesels, in the next decade due to CAFE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot for the life of me understand why ethanol is the bio-fuel endorsed by the feds through credits etc. Bio-diesel can be made with oil derived from rapeseed plants and can be made 100% US. I have been putting 100% US made bio-diesel in 2 vehicles for a total of over 60k combined miles for about 3 years...no and I mean no problems. One is a 1980 model year and the other is a 2005 model year. No money to foriegn countries and less pollution. Some bio-d is made from imported palm oil, this is evil stuff. Clearcut rainforest derived and then uses alot of energy to ship to US bio-d plants. The USA made stuff makes me proud to support my country. Ethanol sucks and I have also read about it ruining marine tanks and systems. My diesel vehicles get excellent milage and are dead reliable. Diesels rule for simplicity and reliability. If you own a diesel vehicle check it out, just make sure the stuff is not imported palm oil derived. It works. E-85 don't.

 

 

Hey there,

 

I would LOVE to run bio-diesel in my F-250, but its not available around here. If it were, I am sure it would be just as costly.

 

When I worked at the Ford Dealership, I had a customer who had a couple of company trucks. He bought equipment to manufacture his own bio-diesel in his garage. He got used cooking oil from 3 local restaurants which he used to process into his bio-diesel. The restaurants were MORE than happy to give him the oil. Previously they were having to pay to have it picked up. He told me that including the depreciation on the equipment and the few chemicals required to process the oil, the cost was about fifty cents per gallon (this was just last year). At the time, he told me he was manufacturing about 55 gallons a week.

 

So, question is - why cant that be done on a larger scale?

 

Page

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys it doesn't matter where it ends up because it is a global market. Think of it this way: more global oil on the market than global demand equals falling prices with the opposite also being true. Unfortunately, now that it is a global market, passing laws to keep our oil here still leaves us vulnerable unless we can supply virtually all our needs domestically and we haven't done that since the 50's.

 

Biodiesel doesn't get the attention from large comapnies because the scale isn't there. If we took all the cooking oil used and converted it to biodiesel, I don't think it would supply more than 1% of our diesel requirements. However, it does look like it would be a good niche for a smaller company and every small amount helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the great thoughts on this, gents. Keep it flowing, it will take our minds off of the hood scoop issue.

 

Some additional thoughts after my first post, not in any order.

 

I may be (partially) responsible for my poor MPG. I posted the numbers, but I didn't mention performance. In a word...Sucks...Literally. Sucks gas, sucks power...Sucks.

 

My GM weighs just under 4500 pounds, with a 4.6L-2V non-PI engine. Primary acceleration and throttle tip-in suffered badly with the E-85, and the tranny seemed to "lose" it's place often in city driving. I may have been "stabbing" the throttle to keep up with traffic, and I'm sure this had something to do with my observed MPG, but not all of it.

 

I could emotionally adjust to lower MPG and lacking performance, but not at these prices. This is what makes it all a sham/scam on us. Half performance should be half price. At 2.79.9, I'd be a loyal user. I won't hug a tree here, but maybe those folks marching outside my house would tone it down a bit?

 

My disappointment with fuel prices doesn't stop here. I burn 106 octane in my race cars and I buy that by the 55 gal. drum delivered to the shop. My refill arrived today, 800 bucks C.O.D. That's roughly 14.50 a gallon, and I'll burn 3-4 gallons in a 50 lap feature. Now, if I was skilled (lucky) enough to win a race once in a while, the purse wouldn't pay the fuel costs for the night.

 

Guess I need to find a new hobby...Are stamps and coins economically safe? Gardening? Or, has fertilizer gone up too?

 

LOL fertilizer has gone through the roof as well actually. The demand is way up. Stamps keep rising in cost with the rise of transportation costs. Pretty much everything in life has gone up. Another year or two and we will cost too much to keep ourselves alive. BTW, #2 home heating oil is $4.179 and K1 is $4.479 per gallon in Maine right now....and its May. Cant wait until next winter!! The cost of my Shelby will look free compared to filling our oil tanks!LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in "stand up comic" mode because this joke continues...

 

I took a 240 mile (round trip) road trip today in my 2008 Mercury Gran Marquis (4500 pound car, 4.6L-2V), and I'm baffeled by my MPG results. This is not adding up.

 

I started out in Chicago topping off the tank with Citgo 87 octane (10% ethanol blend) costing 429.9 a gallon. On the road, my MPG gauge reported 21.9-22.0 MPG, and I was just below half a tank arriving at my destination. I'm a "hammer lane" driver OTR, usually 10 above which is not ideal for MPG.

 

I completed my business and before heading back, I stopped to sample some Indiana blends. I topped off the tank with with 12.5 gallons of Marathon 87 octane, but pure gas, no corn, costing 393.9 per gallon. Arriving home just a while ago, my gas gauge is not even to 3/4 yet, hanging just above it. It will prolly drop down overnight. I will add that on the return trip, there was a few episodes of light drizzle, so, the water content of the ambient air may have had some play here, but I can't really say.

 

So, folks, here's the punch line...Return trip MPG is reported to be 27.4 MPG, on 1/2 of a tank of pure 87 octane gas costing approximately .36 cents less per gallon.

 

Y'all laugh...Please? This joke is costing us all more than a few coins.

 

 

 

Thank you, thank you...I'll be here all week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...
...