Steeda Cold Air Elbow

[motorjock205]

OK, I've just ordered the Steeda Cold Air Elbow for my 2008 SGT...I know that there has been a LOT of discussion on here about whether or not a re-tune is needed, but I'm going to try it without a re-tune at first...It should be here next week, then the following week the wife and I are off on our trip to Disney World from Texas, so I guess I'll find out then whether a re-tune is needed or not for sure...

[LuLu]

OK, I've just ordered the Steeda Cold Air Elbow for my 2008 SGT...I know that there has been a LOT of discussion on here about whether or not a re-tune is needed, but I'm going to try it without a re-tune at first...It should be here next week, then the following week the wife and I are off on our trip to Disney World from Texas, so I guess I'll find out then whether a re-tune is needed or not for sure...

Bravo! And thank you. This is the best way to examine the situation.

 

The answer of whether or not a re-tune is necessary, is also affected by local climate. Only as an example, folks living in cooler northern climates may/may not need adjustment. Likewise for folks living in warmer souther regions. Either way, local climate will have an effect on performance. No real way to know more about it all without some field testing, and a road trip through a variety of climates could be telling. Watch your MPG as well as performance?

 

IMHO, a re-tune is not necessary. Any adjustments to the AFR, spark and timing necessary is well within the EEC parameters. However, others have posted that they have spoken with Steeda, and Steeda says a re-tune is necessary. A re-tune would not be free, and this raises my caution flag.

 

Moreover, it may be true that a re-tune is necessary for a stock Mustang GT, but the SGT owners have a little more going on under the hood. A long road test sounds like the perfect answer to the debate. Thanks again.

 

Happy motoring, have a safe trip.

[ilmor]

The only concern I would have is - would the elbow have a tendency to lean out the a/f mix, and if so would the computer be able to compensate for whatever amount. I can't imagine that it could make that much difference to matter, but...

[LuLu]

The only concern I would have is - would the elbow have a tendency to lean out the a/f mix, and if so would the computer be able to compensate for whatever amount. I can't imagine that it could make that much difference to matter, but...

I tend to agree with you. The stock tune may run a tad lean in cruise mode, but there are on-board protections built in to the programming. The EEC will adjust what it does, as well as the variable cam timing (VCT). Set the cruise control and sit back, I expect everything to be fine, with an improvement in MPG.

 

It's also in our programming to go rich under WOT. Lulu's stock tune drops to 12.0-12.5 AFR in hammer mode. Maybe a tad too rich, but it's for safety, because this is where you could really hurt the engine, running lean under WOT. As long as no one has messed with the stock tune, there should not be any problem. A lean tune will deliver more power, yes, but too lean in the higher RPMs and things get hurt.

 

This is where I part company with "canned" tunes. The programmers make their money by delivering more power to the customer, and where do customers look for that? WOT of course. But, try getting a straight answer from the programmers on how they accomplish this. Wrong canned tune in the wrong climate and you could be very sorry.

 

Gents...There is only one way to do this right, a professional dyno tune. Yes, it's not cheap, nor conveinent for many of you. But, save your pennies and be patient. Work with your tuner like he's your family doctor (in a way, he is) and tune your car the right way.

[SGT3517]

Mine just came in yesterday(Haven't installed yet). I am going to get a re-tune...not because I think the elbow will require it, but because I want more POWAH. Plus my O/R H pipe has my check engine light on. So I know my engine is probably pulling timing because of the light. I dont expect these 2 mods give huge gains....and I never did a baseline dyno, but whatev. If it makes between 275 and 285 to the wheels, I'll be happy.

 

I'm installing tomorrow....I will def. notify if I feel anything weird like its wanting some tuning.

[LuLu]

Oops...Due to another thread here at TS, I found this. Read up, gents caution is due.

 

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005...a-cold-air.html

[motorjock205]

Oops...Due to another thread here at TS, I found this. Read up, gents caution is due.

 

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005...a-cold-air.html

 

Oh well, too late...I've already ordered the standard one...but if during my trip I notice anything funny, that'll be the first place that I check...Then Steeda and I will be having a very "heated" discussion I'm sure!!! I just hate it when a company tries to blame everything on the end user instead of taking responsibility for a product that is constructed incorrectly...If the truth of the matter be known, the elbow probably only cost them $10.00 or so to make and they're charging $109.00 for it, so I guess the rate of return isn't too bad even if the product is defective...LOL

 

Anyway, thanks for the info LuLu...I'll definately watch for that and report any issues.

[mywickedshelby]

from my experience I will state the following,

 

 

On April 11th, Evolution Performance installed FRPP 4.10s, a Steeda CFE and loaded a tune while my car was on the dyno........in fact, ....they did a dyno before and after the tune.

The AFI before the elbow & tune was 11.3.....DEFINATELY TOO LOW.

 

After the tune it was 12.9/13.0.........right where it should be according the EVO.

 

The hp at the rear wheels was 255 before, 275 after.

 

I am NOW getting better gas mileage with my 4.10 gears than I was before with the stock tune and the 3.55s......all because the AFI was corrected by the tune.

 

I dont know squat about this stuff, but I do have the before and after dyno sheets to prove it.

 

carry on gents.........

[JeffIsHereToo]

I dont know squat...

 

Finally he realizes what we have known all along!

 

[LuLu]

from my experience I will state the following,

 

 

On April 11th, Evolution Performance installed FRPP 4.10s, a Steeda CFE and loaded a tune while my car was on the dyno........in fact, ....they did a dyno before and after the tune.

The AFI before the elbow & tune was 11.3.....DEFINATELY TOO LOW.

 

After the tune it was 12.9/13.0.........right where it should be according the EVO.

 

The hp at the rear wheels was 255 before, 275 after.

 

I am NOW getting better gas mileage with my 4.10 gears than I was before with the stock tune and the 3.55s......all because the AFI was corrected by the tune.

 

I dont know squat about this stuff, but I do have the before and after dyno sheets to prove it.

 

carry on gents.........

Ummm...Allow me to digest your 411 and reply later?

 

There are a few things in your post that require some thinking.

 

EDIT: Okay, I'm back with a few questions.

 

By "AFI" do you mean AFR? Air/Fuel Ratio? If so, the terms that describe your present condition are "lean" and "rich", and the numbers run high to low. An 11.3 AFR would be rich, and a 14.0 lean. Somewhere in between, is the sweet spot for your car, and all cars will be slightly different depending on local climate. You will produce more power running lean, but it's also risky to run lean, which is why a tuner needs to be careful with your programming.

 

LuLu cruises at 14.5 AFR and drops down to 12.0 in WOT and I think that this is the SAI/FRP tune causing this because I haven't adjusted this yet. I'm still on the stock SGT tune.

 

You say your before dyno reported 255 RWHP, and the after reported 275 RWHP, and I am confused because my bone stock dyno last year, reported 275 RWHP and 302 RWTQ without any aftermarket tuning. Are you sure Evolution has been square with you?

 

BTW...RWHP is nice to know, but torque moves the car forward. How did you fare in torque numbers?

 

If your tune produced any new power, it should be visible in the torque curve, more torque at a lower RPM being most desireable. By the end of the pull, it all adds up, and sometimes the torque numbers come in low at the end. But it's the power curve that is revealing, and where you will find performance once you are back on the pavement.

 

Remember...A dyno is just a test tool and tells only half the story. The other half is told in real time performance. I'v seen many high horsepower cars get trounced by cars with lower numbers, it's all in the torque.

 

Happy motoring, gents.

[LuLu]

Sorry...Double post

[SGT0701]

I have the elbow, no tune. It looks better than stock and feels like more power (may just be in my head). Anyway, I like it.

If someone want to save some jack and try it out, here is a used one on eBay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STEEDA-INLE...sspagenameZWDVW

[motorjock205]

I have the elbow, no tune. It looks better than stock and feels like more power (may just be in my head). Anyway, I like it.

If someone want to save some jack and try it out, here is a used one on eBay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STEEDA-INLE...sspagenameZWDVW

 

Probably the one that the guy over torqued and collapsed!!! NO THANKS...Mine should be here this week from Steeda!!!

[SGT3517]

I installed my Carbon Fiber elbow on Sunday. I didn't notice shit! Probably the biggest waste of $200 except it looks cool. No need to re-tune.....they just say that so they can make a big deal about over-inflating their performance gains. I still,however, need a re-tune to fix my cel for my O/R H....and lean it out some. hopefully I dont dyno 255 rwhp, otherwise I'm gonna have to kill somebody for over-rating the #s on these cars. 319HP*.15 drivetrain loss is 271 RWHP.

[ilmor]

I installed my Carbon Fiber elbow on Sunday. I didn't notice shit! Probably the biggest waste of $200 except it looks cool. No need to re-tune.....they just say that so they can make a big deal about over-inflating their performance gains. I still,however, need a re-tune to fix my cel for my O/R H....and lean it out some. hopefully I dont dyno 255 rwhp, otherwise I'm gonna have to kill somebody for over-rating the #s on these cars. 319HP*.15 drivetrain loss is 271 RWHP.

 

Sorry to hear about no gain in the pants seat; looks like I'll strike that one off my wish list.

 

As for the dyno, bear in mind that the dyno results depend on a few factors such as the type of dyno, altitude, who performs the test, etc., which may or may not exactly match the way the EPA arrived at the 319 HP which in itself may be flawed + or -.

 

 

LuLu has noted some things like this on another thread. Most guys results have been 275 hp plus based on my many post readings.

[mywickedshelby]

Again, this is what I was told by Evolution......I have the before & after dyno sheets. I will have to try and get them scanned (dont have a scanner) and post them.

In addition, Fred (Evolution) did say that the Mustang Dynometer used in his shop shows a hp number at the rear wheels that is 7 or 8% lower than a dynojet dynometer.......if that makes any sense to anyone.

 

As far as a seat of the pants difference, I put the 4.10 gears in at the same time as the elbow/tune.

I also added the fays2 wattslink. So for me its impossible to say.......but alot has changed.

So basically its a different car now.........Roger noticed after very little seat time, benefits he claimed to feel from the passenger seat.......he had compliments for the differnces felt attributed to the gears, tune and wattslink........he said he felt each differnce, not just one big change.

Got to love having someone with such experience in these matters make a positive assessment.

 

And how exactly do you explain the improved gas mileage?

Shouldnt I be getting worse MPG with the 4.10 gears?

I am not.....its better by several mpg, every tank full in the month since the work was done.

And I was never one of those guys who get 26, 27, 28 mpg, I guess my foot is too heavy and 0-40 is too much fun to pass on enjoying it frequently if not always.

Turn up the loud pedal people.........

[stump_breaker]

And how exactly do you explain the improved gas mileage?

Shouldnt I be getting worse MPG with the 4.10 gears?

I am not.....its better by several mpg, every tank full in the month since the work was done.

 

Witch! Heresy! Burn him at the stake! My ex-buddies friend's cousin twice removed says different so that's the way it is!

 

 

 

Sorry, after I got pounced on for saying this it just seemed like the right thing to say.

[LuLu]

The Fays2 watts link has nothing to do with your dyno test. It's a suspension mod for handling under power, and there is no handling once the car is strapped down on a chassis dyno. However, a "Mustang Dyno" explains a lot to me. This is an "eddy-current" style of dyno that can be manipulated by the operator's data entry. For this reason, it's not the test tool of choice in the field.

 

A few years back, I strapped down a 2003 Mercury Marauder on a Mustang dyno. Bone stock 4.6L-4V engine, 4R70W auto tranny and 4:10 gears. With a straight face, the operator handed me a dyno report documenting that this car made 385 RWHP and over 400 RWTQ! A bone stock Marauder (except for the gear), that weighed 4500 pounds? Unbelieveable! As we went through his data, we found that he weighed the car at 3000 pounds, and gave it a 3:55 rear gear. What an idiot! This was my first, and last Mustang dyno test.

 

A DynoJet test is most popular because you can't fudge the data. There's no data to input. Oh, you can play dyno tricks like over-inflate your rear tires, over-tighten straps, and run the drum TDC, but these tricks won't change much in a DynoJet test report. This is why it's the official/certified chassis dyno approved for use in NHRA and NASCAR title chases, as well as several other racing associations.

 

The best dyno test I ever had, was a DynaPack. Here, you don't strap the car down to a roller at all. You take the rear wheels off the car and bolt the axles to the machine directly. With tires (and their related tricks/problems in testing) out of the way, the test is more accurate. Sadly, a DynaPack doesn't have the market coverage of a DynoJet.

 

Wicked...I think you got a flakey "before" dyno test. The numbers given you do not compare with what has been reported from the field. Moreover, how did you fare in RWTQ? This is the important 411, please answer?

 

Sadly, this kind of crap happens, and it happens everyday. Aftermarket tuners under rate your "before", so, their "after" power production appears in a golden light. Eventually, we figure it out...

[mywickedshelby]

Again, and with all due respect Mac, I dont give a rats ass about the before numbers, The point here is the car runs better NOW.....FACT and I AM GETTING BETTER GAS MILEAGE NOW WITH THE 4.10S. FACT.

 

unless Evolution has somehow secretly changed the calibration in my cars computer and it just says the gas mileage is better so they look good.

 

and I am aware the watts link is a suspension upgrade and doesnt affect the dyno.....but thanks for the tip.

[LuLu]

Again, and with all due respect Mac, I dont give a rats ass about the before numbers, The point here is the car runs better NOW.....FACT and I AM GETTING BETTER GAS MILEAGE NOW WITH THE 4.10S. FACT.

 

unless Evolution has somehow secretly changed the calibration in my cars computer and it just says the gas mileage is better so they look good.

 

and I am aware the watts link is a suspension upgrade and doesnt affect the dyno.....but thanks for the tip.

Wicked...I am not the one who challenged your improved MPG. In fact, I believe it's an expected by-product of the changes you have accomplished. Improved suspension and gearing puts more power to the ground, and more power means more efficiency. So, you end up (in theory) using less throttle to get the same results as "before" (if you can keep your foot out of it). But, you won't see this on a dyno, a dyno is strictly for fine tuning. Folks here are over interested in RWHP numbers. Sadly, they are looking for power in the wrong arena.

 

Excuse me for attempting to advise you, but when you take friends for a ride and they comment "oh wow" and "awesome", it's not horsepower causing that. It's torque. In your case, Wicked, your 4:10s and Watts link enhance putting your torque to the ground and causing that SOTP feeling. Excellent choices, control is power, and when you pick the right mods that maximize control, you will get more power to the ground. But, and again, it's torque, not HP, and that's basic scientific FACT.

 

No torque numbers, eh? Now that I look back, you haven't answered one of my questions. Whatever.

 

IMHO...If your "after" dyno reports 275 RWHP after adding a EP tune, you paid for something you already owned. Any decent tuner should pull 290 RWHP(or better) out of a stock 4.6L-3V engine without taking risks.

 

And, your comment about a Mustang chassis dyno under-reporting power by 7-8% is exactly why folks should stay away from a Mustang. It's known to be inaccurate, and can be manipulated to deliver any numbers you want. A dyno is a test tool, and where else in our world do we allow test tools any margin for inaccuracy?

 

Drive on my friend, I was just trying to help. Someone else owns the MPG issue.

[motorjock205]

Well, Well...Now that my thread has been hijacked to talk about gears and dynos and all that junk, let's get back to the original reason for this post!

 

The Steeda cold air intake tube arrived today 5/22/08 and was a snap to install...As stated previously, I'm going to Florida for vacation in a week, and will see if I can tell any real differences with the new tube installed or not. In the mean time, I'll be making a stop at the Quantum Performance Grand Opening in Farmers Branch on May 31, 2008 from 0900 to 1400 hours, so I hope to see some of you guys there!

 

Happy motoring everyone!

 

[mywickedshelby]

enjoy your trip.

[motorjock205]

enjoy your trip.

 

I'm sure we will...my wife has NEVER been to Disney Land or Disney World, so she's going to be like a kid in a candy store! LOL Plus I finally get to catch up to her in years as I'll turn 51 on June 7th while we're there...she said she's going to buy me a set of mouse ears with my name on them for my birthday...

[mywickedshelby]

I'm sure we will...my wife has NEVER been to Disney Land or Disney World, so she's going to be like a kid in a candy store! LOL Plus I finally get to catch up to her in years as I'll turn 51 on June 7th while we're there...she said she's going to buy me a set of mouse ears with my name on them for my birthday...

 

I am getting married on June 7th, as busy as I will be that day, I am sure at some point an image of you in those MM ears will pop in to my head.

Enjoy!

[motorjock205]

I am getting married on June 7th, as busy as I will be that day, I am sure at some point an image of you in those MM ears will pop in to my head.

Enjoy!

 

LMAO ROTF ...And if it does, just keep on smiling and keep everyone wondering what is it that you are smiling about!

 

Best Wishes to you and your bride for a happy future my friend!

[LuLu]

Well, Well...Now that my thread has been hijacked to talk about gears and dynos and all that junk, let's get back to the original reason for this post!.

I see your point. Discussions of dynos, suspension mods and performance related 411 on the Steeda elbow, are loosely related, but not "junk". Borderline topics, yes, but not as borderline as mouse ears and marriage.

 

BTW, "been there, did that" with both topics, and with the expected outcomes. My mouse ears are burried somewhere in the bowels of my former home (now owned my my former wife), and the rest is self-explanatory. She said "it's the car or me", and she didn't like my attempt at negotiation. Guess I should have not tried?

 

Jock...Have a nice trip, be safe in your travels and enjoy Disney. It's a delightful experience no matter how old you are.

 

Wicked...Sorry, no advice for you. Your future road is just beginning to unfold before you and I suspect that your "mod" days are numbered. Good luck, and likewise, be safe in your travels.

 

Where ever you are driving to, happy motoring, gents.

[motorjock205]

I see your point. Discussions of dynos, suspension mods and performance related 411 on the Steeda elbow, are loosely related, but not "junk". Borderline topics, yes, but not as borderline as mouse ears and marriage.

 

BTW, "been there, did that" with both topics, and with the expected outcomes. My mouse ears are burried somewhere in the bowels of my former home (now owned my my former wife), and the rest is self-explanatory. She said "it's the car or me", and she didn't like my attempt at negotiation. Guess I should have not tried?

 

Jock...Have a nice trip, be safe in your travels and enjoy Disney. It's a delightful experience no matter how old you are.

 

Wicked...Sorry, no advice for you. Your future road is just beginning to unfold before you and I suspect that your "mod" days are numbered. Good luck, and likewise, be safe in your travels.

 

Where ever you are driving to, happy motoring, gents.

 

I was only kidding about the "junk" Mac...you know how it is...my stuff if stuff and your stuff is "junk"...LOL Isn't that why your mouse ears are still in the possession of your ex? I know I've lost a LOT of my stuff over the years and past 5 marriages...I know, I know...I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment, but it only took me 38 years to get back around to my 6th grade sweetheart, and we're having the time of our lives now!

 

Thanks everyone for the well wishes on the trip, I'll post some results on it when we get back, mileage, performance, etc. with the new Steeda tube...I can't wait for next week to get here!!! :happy feet:

[motorjock205]

OK guys, as promised, here are some results of the install of my Steeda cold air intake tube...

 

Odessa, TX to Kissimmee, FL I have averaged 23.6875 MPG according to the in car computer...actual figures have been 22.4075 MPG by calculator. Keep in mind that this is AVERAGE with some in town driving combined with open road cruise mode for the last 2,000 or so miles...

 

Highest MPG on highway was 26 according to computer 24.81 Actual by calculator...I've generally been sitting the cruise at 75 to 78 MPH and there have been a couple of open highway romps just for fun thrown in there...One was watching some guy in a Lexus try to keep up with the SGT, and from 110 to 140, he just disappeared in the rear view mirror from a rolling 80 MPH...Guy had been chewing the rear bumper for several miles when I decided to put a little distance between me and him.

 

As far as performance and tune questions, I can not really tell that performance is any better than before, it may feel a little more responsive on quick throttle blips, but nothing major. Previously, on trips, I had noticed a lot of black soot in the pipes when I'd stop, but I have NOT noticed as much soot on this trip after the tube install, so perhaps it's running just a tad leaner in cruise mode, which I don't think is a bad thing...

 

I DO notice a little more noise coming from under the hood when I crack the throttle and shift through the gears...I guess the rubber boot absorbs a little of that noise...at least more than the plastic does! I don't mind the sound, just sounds a little meaner to me...

 

The car is still turning heads everywhere we go, people are still making very nice comments on the car, and I doubt very seriously that I'll mess with the tune on the car at all at this point. After Quantum's open house, and hearing the Wipple on an 07 SGT, I'm hooked!!! I just have to get my wife's kitchen done first!

 

We've still got another week to go, we're heading down to the Keys on Monday then back home to Texas after a day or two down there...

 

So, if you're planning on making this upgrade, I'd say GO FOR IT and DON'T WORRY ABOUT A RE-TUNE....Just my $.02 worth :D

[FordRocks1]

OK guys, as promised, here are some results of the install of my Steeda cold air intake tube...

 

Odessa, TX to Kissimmee, FL I have averaged 23.6875 MPG according to the in car computer...actual figures have been 22.4075 MPG by calculator. Keep in mind that this is AVERAGE with some in town driving combined with open road cruise mode for the last 2,000 or so miles...

 

Highest MPG on highway was 26 according to computer 24.81 Actual by calculator...I've generally been sitting the cruise at 75 to 78 MPH and there have been a couple of open highway romps just for fun thrown in there...One was watching some guy in a Lexus try to keep up with the SGT, and from 110 to 140, he just disappeared in the rear view mirror from a rolling 80 MPH...Guy had been chewing the rear bumper for several miles when I decided to put a little distance between me and him.

 

As far as performance and tune questions, I can not really tell that performance is any better than before, it may feel a little more responsive on quick throttle blips, but nothing major. Previously, on trips, I had noticed a lot of black soot in the pipes when I'd stop, but I have NOT noticed as much soot on this trip after the tube install, so perhaps it's running just a tad leaner in cruise mode, which I don't think is a bad thing...

 

I DO notice a little more noise coming from under the hood when I crack the throttle and shift through the gears...I guess the rubber boot absorbs a little of that noise...at least more than the plastic does! I don't mind the sound, just sounds a little meaner to me...

 

The car is still turning heads everywhere we go, people are still making very nice comments on the car, and I doubt very seriously that I'll mess with the tune on the car at all at this point. After Quantum's open house, and hearing the Wipple on an 07 SGT, I'm hooked!!! I just have to get my wife's kitchen done first!

 

We've still got another week to go, we're heading down to the Keys on Monday then back home to Texas after a day or two down there...

 

So, if you're planning on making this upgrade, I'd say GO FOR IT and DON'T WORRY ABOUT A RE-TUNE....Just my $.02 worth :D

 

 

 

Thanks for the info....the elbow did not come with any decals or anything as s uch? Going to the keys huh? I live off of exit two on the turnpike, be on the look out, many FHP lately down there in the Keys, kids are out of school...trust me they do not give breaks....so the speed limit down there means speed limit...otherwise enjoy the keys...man,when are you planning to back to TX...if you were to stay longer the following day(Tuesday night) my Mustang Car club will be hosting a show at World Ford of Kendall...PM me if you want more info, I'll be there with my SGT.

 

[SGT0225]

Thanks for the info....the elbow did not come with any decals or anything as s uch? Going to the keys huh? I live off of exit two on the turnpike, be on the look out, many FHP lately down there in the Keys, kids are out of school...trust me they do not give breaks....so the speed limit down there means speed limit...otherwise enjoy the keys...man,when are you planning to back to TX...if you were to stay longer the following day(Tuesday night) my Mustang Car club will be hosting a show at World Ford of Kendall...PM me if you want more info, I'll be there with my SGT.

 

 

Any new updates? I want to get one.