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Five Oh B gets blown...


Five Oh B

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Ruf, those V6 emblems are just plain sadistic; I think I'll get a pair for my car!

 

Actually, I was thinking of getting the 351 emblems that are available online everywhere. Except, not for the 351 cubic inches intended, but the 351 rwhp that my car coincidentally put down on the rollers.

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Awesome Brian. I am enjoying the progress you are making with the auto tranny car. You have me chomping at the bit to install my supercharger. Keep us posted with your progress.

 

I highly recommend boost - even with an automatic car. I waited for too many years to do this as I always figured it would be more expensive than it turned out to be, plus I assumed tuning would be a nightmare, but that is a piece of cake if you have a good dyno shop in the area.

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Ruf, those V6 emblems are just plain sadistic; I think I'll get a pair for my car!

 

Actually, I was thinking of getting the 351 emblems that are available online everywhere. Except, not for the 351 cubic inches intended, but the 351 rwhp that my car coincidentally put down on the rollers.

Five-oh - Those little magnetic emblems are amazing! Everyone who sees them says something like, "That's Wrong!"!!

 

I've seen guys at car shows taking pictures of them! The guy who made them for me did it for free saying it was so cool, he couldn't charge me! Just find a guy in your area that does sign work.

 

And - at stoplights..... :hysterical:

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I highly recommend boost - even with an automatic car. I waited for too many years to do this as I always figured it would be more expensive than it turned out to be, plus I assumed tuning would be a nightmare, but that is a piece of cake if you have a good dyno shop in the area.

 

I have already taken the plunge on a Saleen supercharger from JDM Engineering but it is not installed yet. I am approaching this a little differently as there are quite a few things I want to do to my car so I am buying all the parts and having everything installed at once. Along with the supercharger I have bought new Steeda Pentar chrome wheels, Hawk ceramic pads, Powerslot rotors, Tokico D-spec shocks and struts and Steeda suspension parts which include Billet lower control arms, lower control arm relo bracket, upper control arm, sport springs, upper strut mounts, rear swaybar, panhard bar, panhard bar brace and a g-trac brace. Now I am trying to decide on which gauges to buy and where to mount them. Once I have all the parts the install will begin.

 

After the "GO" is completed I will work on the "SHOW" which will include a Steeda fron fascia and a GT500 spoiler. :happy feet: :happy feet:

 

I just need more time and money!!!

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I have already taken the plunge on a Saleen supercharger from JDM Engineering but it is not installed yet. I am approaching this a little differently as there are quite a few things I want to do to my car so I am buying all the parts and having everything installed at once. Along with the supercharger I have bought new Steeda Pentar chrome wheels, Hawk ceramic pads, Powerslot rotors, Tokico D-spec shocks and struts and Steeda suspension parts which include Billet lower control arms, lower control arm relo bracket, upper control arm, sport springs, upper strut mounts, rear swaybar, panhard bar, panhard bar brace and a g-trac brace. Now I am trying to decide on which gauges to buy and where to mount them. Once I have all the parts the install will begin.

 

After the "GO" is completed I will work on the "SHOW" which will include a Steeda fron fascia and a GT500 spoiler. :happy feet: :happy feet:

 

I just need more time and money!!!

 

More "time and money" - amen to that!!! Sounds like you'll have quite the road racer when you're finished. They'll be some Vipers and Vettes left in your wake!

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So, I got this month's issue of MM&FF magazine in the mailbox yesterday and they have an article on the brand new Vortech V-3 supercharger. The V-3 is identical to my V-2, except that it has its own lubrication so you don't have to punch a hole in your oil pan. They have the standard (non-intercooled) like I have and the V-power (intercooled) like Ruf has.

 

The cool part is that they took an all stock 05+ GT and dyno'd it on a Mustang Chassis Dyno at Vortech's facility, and then dyno'd again with the V-3 standard and the V-3 intercooled blowers. I had been wondering if my dyno numbers were weak a few weeks ago, but recently have learned the the Mustang Chassis Dyno reads lower than the much more common Dynojet (about 10% on average!). I did a google search on the topic, and found that 10% figure on just about every brand of message boards (Mustangs, GM's, Nissans, Honda, Mitsubishis, etc.). Seems like every forum has threads on the differences between load bearing dynos (i.e. MD) versus inertia dynos (i.e. Dynojet).

 

So, the stock GT they dyno'd spun 239 rwhp (they didn't say, but I'm guessing it was an automatic car based on that low of a number). The V-3 standard blower spun 329 rwhp. This makes me feel much better about my 351 rwhp. The V-3 intercooled spun 368 rwhp. They said that 371 rwhp equated to about 480 flywheel horsepower (which implies a 23% drivetrain loss, yet another reason I think they were testing an automatic like mine). Ultimately, though, my 351 rwhp fits right into real #'s on the same dyno on an equivalent car, so I can sleep better now.

 

However, this information opens up a few questions to ponder now. For example, how much rwhp would my car make on a Dynojet (to compare better with the majority of guys who've dyno'd on one)? 10% more than a Mustang Dyno? That's 386 rwhp in my case. Also, does an automatic really give up 23 % in drivetrain loss (my tuner, and most people, say about 20%)? If Vortech is correct about the 23%, then that drives my 351 rwhp up to 455 flywheel hp (a 20% factor puts my car at 439 flywheel hp).

 

Ultimately, it would be cool to put my engine on an engine dyno to actually measure flywheel hp, but the cost would be so prohibitive. We do have a dyno shop nearby with a Dynojet dyno, though, so I'll be heading there soon to at least answer if there's really a 10% difference in dyno's.

 

And then there is always the true measure of performance - the dragstrip. Was supposed to go tomorrow for a test n tune session, but the weathermen all say lots of rain tomorrow! The next open track day isn't until October! Just gotta hope the blower gods will part the clouds tomorrow!

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So, I got this month's issue of MM&FF magazine in the mailbox yesterday and they have an article on the brand new Vortech V-3 supercharger. The V-3 is identical to my V-2, except that it has its own lubrication so you don't have to punch a hole in your oil pan. They have the standard (non-intercooled) like I have and the V-power (intercooled) like Ruf has.

 

The cool part is that they took an all stock 05+ GT and dyno'd it on a Mustang Chassis Dyno at Vortech's facility, and then dyno'd again with the V-3 standard and the V-3 intercooled blowers. I had been wondering if my dyno numbers were weak a few weeks ago, but recently have learned the the Mustang Chassis Dyno reads lower than the much more common Dynojet (about 10% on average!). I did a google search on the topic, and found that 10% figure on just about every brand of message boards (Mustangs, GM's, Nissans, Honda, Mitsubishis, etc.). Seems like every forum has threads on the differences between load bearing dynos (i.e. MD) versus inertia dynos (i.e. Dynojet).

 

So, the stock GT they dyno'd spun 239 rwhp (they didn't say, but I'm guessing it was an automatic car based on that low of a number). The V-3 standard blower spun 329 rwhp. This makes me feel much better about my 351 rwhp. The V-3 intercooled spun 368 rwhp. They said that 371 rwhp equated to about 480 flywheel horsepower (which implies a 23% drivetrain loss, yet another reason I think they were testing an automatic like mine). Ultimately, though, my 351 rwhp fits right into real #'s on the same dyno on an equivalent car, so I can sleep better now.

 

However, this information opens up a few questions to ponder now. For example, how much rwhp would my car make on a Dynojet (to compare better with the majority of guys who've dyno'd on one)? 10% more than a Mustang Dyno? That's 386 rwhp in my case. Also, does an automatic really give up 23 % in drivetrain loss (my tuner, and most people, say about 20%)? If Vortech is correct about the 23%, then that drives my 351 rwhp up to 455 flywheel hp (a 20% factor puts my car at 439 flywheel hp).

 

Ultimately, it would be cool to put my engine on an engine dyno to actually measure flywheel hp, but the cost would be so prohibitive. We do have a dyno shop nearby with a Dynojet dyno, though, so I'll be heading there soon to at least answer if there's really a 10% difference in dyno's.

 

And then there is always the true measure of performance - the dragstrip. Was supposed to go tomorrow for a test n tune session, but the weathermen all say lots of rain tomorrow! The next open track day isn't until October! Just gotta hope the blower gods will part the clouds tomorrow!

 

As you saw with the automatic drivetrain losses, the higher you go in the HP range, the less "standard" these numbers become. Rules of thumb don't work as well as the HP rises. I suspect the same is true of the 10% difference between the Mustang and Dynojet. There are so many variables involved, that the possibility of actually doing a meaningful comparison is very difficult. That's why there are no conversion tables. I have seen shops compensate for temperature and even barometric pressure but they should also compensate for dewpoint. That's just the atmospheric variables, imagine how many others you would have to duplicate to get a meaningful comparison between the Mustang and Dynojet.

 

JDM says I should have 425 RWHP but that's with a standard and at ideal atmospheric conditions. I would be happy with anything over 375 at the rear wheels. In fact, I haven't dynoed the car since I installed the blower because I really like how it drives. If I like it and I'm not going to change anything, why dyno it?

 

I also really like the transmission tune that I got from JDM. The 3-4 shift doesn't happen below 40 no matter how much I feather the throttle so it's not the best for economy but it really clicks at WOT.

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Good luck, Brian! I'm thinking mid 12's! :happy feet:

 

Well, we got rained out today, so no drag testing the blower! Next drag day is October 18th at my home track, or next week if I'm willing to travel 50 miles to a track I've never been to.

 

Either way, mid 12's for me would be fine, and I figure mid 11's for you, Ruf, whenever you get around to hitting the dragstrip.

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As you saw with the automatic drivetrain losses, the higher you go in the HP range, the less "standard" these numbers become. Rules of thumb don't work as well as the HP rises. I suspect the same is true of the 10% difference between the Mustang and Dynojet. There are so many variables involved, that the possibility of actually doing a meaningful comparison is very difficult. That's why there are no conversion tables. I have seen shops compensate for temperature and even barometric pressure but they should also compensate for dewpoint. That's just the atmospheric variables, imagine how many others you would have to duplicate to get a meaningful comparison between the Mustang and Dynojet.

 

JDM says I should have 425 RWHP but that's with a standard and at ideal atmospheric conditions. I would be happy with anything over 375 at the rear wheels. In fact, I haven't dynoed the car since I installed the blower because I really like how it drives. If I like it and I'm not going to change anything, why dyno it?

 

I also really like the transmission tune that I got from JDM. The 3-4 shift doesn't happen below 40 no matter how much I feather the throttle so it's not the best for economy but it really clicks at WOT.

 

Yep, too many variables. That's why it would be cool to put the engine on an engine dyno and do an SAE certified pull like the OEM's are doing now. But, that's so cost prohibitive. Timeslips will have to suffice, as trap speed will tell you what's really getting to the ground regardless of any dyno to dyno variation out there.

 

I like how you have the minimum speeds for upshifting programmed in. I had my tuner do the same, but for downshifts instead (didn't want the trans trying to dig too deep too soon and put the car in too low a gear at redline during a downshift. I didn't think to have him set minimum speeds for upshifts. He does free email changes to the custom tune I paid for already, so I'll have him make that change. Thanks for the idea!

 

As tempted as I am to dial up more power, my original goal was a car that would run low 12's @ 110+ in the 1/4 mile, and 351 rwhp is enough to do that consistently. You guys with 425 to 475 rwhp have true 11 second beasts on your hands (assuming proper traction and skill). Ruf likely has a car that's borderline in need of a rollcage to pass tech at an NHRA-rule dragstrip (11.49 or quicker). The rest of us just need a helmet with a new enough Snell rating and driveshaft loop(s).

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Good information.

 

I also have the 435 RWHP tune from JDM but I will be taking mine to the dyno once I have it installed. I just want to be sure that the fuel/air ratio is where it should be to give me peace of mind. Mine is an auto so I will let you know how the numbers stack up.

 

A/F ratio was OK on mine with the Vortech supplied tune, but the spark and fuel tables were waaaaay off. You certainly will benefit from a dyno tune just to be sure you don't lean out and/or spark knock anywhere in the rpm's or under any kind of load in any gear. Money well spent, IMO (cost me a total of $450 for 4.5 hours of tuning the blower and the transmission).

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Great! I bet the A/F is spot on but if it isn't, let me know. You are going to love the blower and the tune. When are you going to have all this work done? Have you found an installer yet?

 

The guy who does the work on my cars has installed about a dozen Saleen blowers for the local Ford dealership so that is who will do mine. I need to decide on gauges and then I will start the install.

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The guy who does the work on my cars has installed about a dozen Saleen blowers for the local Ford dealership so that is who will do mine. I need to decide on gauges and then I will start the install.

 

I haven't decided on guages yet, either. I still don't know whether I should buy a pillar mounted guage pod, or the dash-top guage pod that fits in the center recess. Then I suppose a good choice of guages would be fuel pressure, boost pressure, and A/F ratio, but which size (2-1/16" seems to be most common) and which brand (Autometer seems to have a huge selection and I've used them a lot in the past).

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Since I can't adjust the A/F mixture or boost from the cockpit - the only gauge I'd like is a shift light. That's coming soon. I don't like having to take my eyes off the road....I mean track...before shifting. And I go through 1st and 2nd pretty quickly! :happy feet:

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Since I can't adjust the A/F mixture or boost from the cockpit - the only gauge I'd like is a shift light. That's coming soon. I don't like having to take my eyes off the road....I mean track...before shifting. And I go through 1st and 2nd pretty quickly! :happy feet:

 

True but the other gauges could alert you to a potentially expensive problem. :eek5: :drop::stop:

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True but the other gauges could alert you to a potentially expensive problem. :eek5: :drop::stop:

 

Air/Fuel Ratio guage shouldn't really be necessary considering I paid good money for a proper tune that specifically addressed A/F ratios. However, fuel pressure is important (just like oil pressure), and it's always interesting to see boost levels. Now I'm wondering if just the two guages would be enough, or if I should spring for an A/F guage (the most expensive of the bunch!).

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Air/Fuel Ratio guage shouldn't really be necessary considering I paid good money for a proper tune that specifically addressed A/F ratios. However, fuel pressure is important (just like oil pressure), and it's always interesting to see boost levels. Now I'm wondering if just the two guages would be enough, or if I should spring for an A/F guage (the most expensive of the bunch!).

 

No way I wouldn't get the air/fuel gauge on a car with a blower. Even though you paid for a tune, that doesn't mean that some thing else can't go wrong which effects the air/fuel. I'd have boost, air/fuel, oil pressure, and fuel pressure gauges. Might seem like overkill but stop and think about how much money you put into the car to get it where it is and what it would cost if some thing happened. Once you do that, the air/fuel gauge doesn't seem so expensive any more.

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Hi Brian - have you decided yet on where you'll put the gauges?

 

057-989_1.jpg

 

Moss Mustang Gauge Pods

 

 

Even come in factory colors. :happy feet:

 

 

055-411_1.jpg

 

CDC Gauge Pod

 

A cleaner install and look if you ask me.

 

056-215_1.jpg

 

Steering Wheel Gauge Pod

 

A nice alternative if you don't want to go the A piller route.

 

 

So many choices, so little money................. :cry:

 

For my car, I'd go the A piller and CDC pod route. Just looks better IMO.

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In this order, I need to buy a few goodies...

 

 

  1. Brisk spark plugs - 2 heat ranges cooler.
  2. Autometer or CDC 3 guage pod - dash top mounted.
  3. A/F ratio guage.
  4. Fuel Pressure guage.
  5. Boost guage.

 

 

Then I gotta cool it with the mods for awhile. For those who don't know, I work at a Ford dealership. As you can likely guess, car sales are waaaaay down lately, so money is really tight right now in our household (my wife works at our dealership, too).

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In this order, I need to buy a few goodies...

 

 

  1. Brisk spark plugs - 2 heat ranges cooler.

  2. Autometer or CDC 3 guage pod - dash top mounted.

  3. A/F ratio guage.

  4. Fuel Pressure guage.

  5. Boost guage.

 

 

Then I gotta cool it with the mods for awhile. For those who don't know, I work at a Ford dealership. As you can likely guess, car sales are waaaaay down lately, so money is really tight right now in our household (my wife works at our dealership, too).

 

 

I hear ya, the $3000 in suspension mods that I wanted to do has turned into a $300 front splitter thanks to the economy. :doh:

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In this order, I need to buy a few goodies...

 

 

  1. Brisk spark plugs - 2 heat ranges cooler.

  2. Autometer or CDC 3 guage pod - dash top mounted.

  3. A/F ratio guage.

  4. Fuel Pressure guage.

  5. Boost guage.

 

 

Then I gotta cool it with the mods for awhile. For those who don't know, I work at a Ford dealership. As you can likely guess, car sales are waaaaay down lately, so money is really tight right now in our household (my wife works at our dealership, too).

Brian - what's up with the cooler plugs? No one has suggested I do that. I think all I'd like is a shift light. I wouldn't have to take my eyes off the road to watch the tach.

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Sorry about that, Jim. But - - you do still have two very Hot Rods, eh? :happy feet:

 

No big deal Ruf, just thought it was smarter to save the money then spend it. I'm still planning to do the suspension mods, just might put it off till next year. :happy feet:

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First: Congrats on going boosted!

Second: don't believe much from magazines lol.

 

I too am Vortech supercharged (HO kit), tuned to 450 at the wheels on stock pulley at 10lbs. Been on the car for going on 2 years now with zero issues other than failing smog the first time thru. Ran mine at the track back in Illinois on the stock tires from Ford and ran a 12.53@112. Switched to E/T streets and ran a 12.20@111 with a 1.74 60' time. Third run I was racing my buddies Viper, I left him at the line and was ahead of him and missed my 2-3 shift and got out of it. He ran an 11.90 so i'm certain I would have been right around there. Moved to Cali and tried running it at a track out here. Best I could muster out of it was a 12.54@112 launching at 4800rpm and hitting all my shifts with a 1.86 60'. Needless to say I was letdown about my track numbers but then I realized its not all about what it will run at the track, its how fun is it on the street. I still smile every time I drive the car. Don't get too hung up on numbers and remember the golden rule about drag racing, they never run what you want them too LOL. Enjoy the boost ...

 

Here's a couple pics of mine:

dcp_3680.jpg

dcp_3375.jpg

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