RUFDRAFT Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Brian - I didn't know my wife had used my computer to post yesterday! Sorry about the Ruffles thing. I'm not sure if you saw my latest dyno from a few weeks ago. The base pull was very lean and the timing wasn't properly set. My new guy advanced the timing 3 degrees - got the A/F at 12.5 across the rpm range and added 100 rpms. Base pull 439 (which had been 461 last fall...??). After tuning - 470. His tune gained me 30 hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hey Brian, Glad to see you are enjoying the ole SuperCharger Keep us posted on the after-tune excitement Page Thanks, Page. Definitely enjoying the supercharger, but haven't been to the track yet. All the NHRA required safety gear is present and accounted for, but didn't want to hit the track without a solid tune. Some track time will be the after-tune excitement I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hi Brian - Good to hear back from you! Keep us posted on the dyno-tune! :happy feet: Thank you kindly. I'm sure my #'s will be nothing close to Bryan's, but any gain is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Brian - I didn't know my wife had used my computer to post yesterday! Sorry about the Ruffles thing. I'm not sure if you saw my latest dyno from a few weeks ago. The base pull was very lean and the timing wasn't properly set. My new guy advanced the timing 3 degrees - got the A/F at 12.5 across the rpm range and added 100 rpms. Base pull 439 (which had been 461 last fall...??). After tuning - 470. His tune gained me 30 hp. Bryan - I'm curious about the boost shown on your dyno graph. 8.6 psi? I thought the intercooled Vortech was a 10 psi blower. I bought the non-cooled Vortech and it's supposed to be around 8.5 psi. Could your lower base pull of 439 have anything to do with the boost being down for some reason? Either way, 470 rwhp is awesome! That's ruf-ly 550hp at the crank (assuming 15% drivetrain loss). Sure looks like you're still making more and more horsepower at 6,500 rpm's and would probably continue as rpm's climb, but I'd be fearful of blowing up the motor by spinning it any faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 So Brian what do you think your drive train loss will be at the 470 crank level? Still 70 or 75 or even 80? The JDM tune on my tranny is great but I don't shift into OD until 45-47 mph. Have you done anything else to your transmission after the TC? I'm assuming that an automatic loses about 18-20% through the drivetrain when stock. Tighten things up (like more gearing and stall converter like I've down) at it's probably less drivetrain loss (I'm assuming about 16% in my car at this point). This assumption is based on inputting my timeslip data into a very accurate hp vs trap speed calculator from runs made before and after gearing/TC upgrades, but with the same gross horsepower before and after. TC is still the only transmission mod I've done, and it's flashing to 4,700 rpm's with the supercharger. Looking at Ruf's dyno graph, you can see that flashing that high is a good thing to get right into the thick of the powerband with a high-winding centrifugal blower. I really should get a bigger trans cooler installed, but I don't have the luxury of a lot of track time this year, so it's not as big a priority as it might otherwise be if I were bracket racing weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badsho Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 brian been reading this post with interest .... love the stealth look with the V6 pony grill on your GT !!! :happy feet: I bet you sneak up on alot of people and blow them away. Very nice set up too. Our shop has installed a few saleen set ups and the power on those blowers were real low ... not the most aggressive tune either with them. Cant wait for you too post your dyno numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Brian - look at the graph again - right above the a/f line at the start of the run -- 10.1 boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 brian been reading this post with interest .... love the stealth look with the V6 pony grill on your GT !!! :happy feet: I bet you sneak up on alot of people and blow them away. Very nice set up too. Are shop has installed a few saleen set ups and the power on those blowers were real low ... not the most aggressive tune either with them. Cant wait for you too post your dyno numbers Thanks! The stealth look keeps me out of trouble - more than anything - as I have a tough time resisting a good street race. So, very few people even think to challenge me when they see what appears to be a V6 Mustang. My last Mustang was an '03 Azure Blue Mach 1 and I got challenged to race almost daily out on the streets - so much that it made me go the sleeper route for the '07. 3 more days until my car spins the rollers for its dyno tune. I'll be sure to post results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Brian - look at the graph again - right above the a/f line at the start of the run -- 10.1 boost. 10.1 makes a lot more sense. Normally this is where I'd be funny and say I need a new prescription for my glasses (to read better), but I just had my annual eye exam a week ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 CH53Driver is bringing his Shelby 500 up here from Wilmington on Wed. He's having an off-road X-Pipe installed at my local Ford store. Then on Thursday, we're taking it to the speed shop (where I just had my work done) for a dyno-tune. I'll post his numbers. Good luck with your tune!! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Always curious to see numbers that others are getting after a good dyno tune. CH53Driver should get some noticable gains from the off-road X-pipe. I've been seeing that forced induction and less restrictive intake and exhaust go very well together. I've been pondering exhaust upgrades for my car, but have to keep it 100% smog legal as we are scrutinized here in the Seattle area very tightly and my car is a daily driver. Will likely do tuned-length shorty headers, free-flowing cats, and as much as I want some SLP loud-mouth axle backs, that would blow my sleeper image - LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Always curious to see numbers that others are getting after a good dyno tune. CH53Driver should get some noticable gains from the off-road X-pipe. I've been seeing that forced induction and less restrictive intake and exhaust go very well together. I've been pondering exhaust upgrades for my car, but have to keep it 100% smog legal as we are scrutinized here in the Seattle area very tightly and my car is a daily driver. Will likely do tuned-length shorty headers, free-flowing cats, and as much as I want some SLP loud-mouth axle backs, that would blow my sleeper image - LOL! You ought to hear my car without the cats! NASCAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 You ought to hear my car without the cats! NASCAR. You ought to hear my car run over cats! Meeeeeeeeooooooooooow! Splat....... I hope there aren't any cat lovers around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 OK, dyno-tune session went great last night. The Vortech-supplied tune for the supercharger was garbage, so the Horsepower Ranch was able to get nice improvements over Vortech's ultra conservative tune. Net result was 351 rwhp. The tuner tells me that GT automatics give up 20% to drivetrain loss, so figure about 440 hp at the crank. Torque peaked at 304 lb ft at the tires, which is about 380 lb ft at the crank. Centrifugals make more hp than torque, whereas a roots blower is the opposite. Safe timing and fuel curves all around, and great manipulation of shifting and torque converter functions! It's programmed for TC lock up at WOT in all 5 gears. The extra power has the stall converter flashing to 4800 rpm's, which is good as centrifugals make more power at higher rpm's. Ended up pushing 10.5 psi boost at the 6,400 rpm shift points. Horsepower was still climbing hard at 6,400 rpm's, so raising the redline up would yield even higher peak values, but I don't want to push the stock internals too much more. It took 5 pulls to sort it all out. Here's the final pull of the session. My daughter was brave enough to put up with the deafening noise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I'm going to a test 'n' tune session at Pacific Raceways next week to see how the 1/4 mile shapes up with the new-found power. 351 rwhp in a 3,700 package (car weight with driver) calculates out to 12.30's at 111 mph, so that's the initial expectation. I think with some practice to learn the power curve there will eventually be some 12.10's and 12.20's with this tune, but I feel confident in running 12.30's easily at this point. Guess we'll know for sure next week (as long as the weather cooperates!).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: Great news, Brian. Cool video, too! Congrats! Are those numbers SAE corrected? What was the temp/baro pressure? And what's your A/F ratio? Can't wait to see the numbers at the track. We took CH53Driver's Shelby 500 to the speed shop here yesterday. He had an Evolution canned tune. Baseline was about 440 rwhp. Five pulls later, the tuner got him up to 470. It was running much too lean. (13.5) - he took him down to 11.7. We compared graphs. His blower make the hp right Now! Mine (like your's) climbs steadily with the rpm's. Have you thought about doing cams/springs? :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Nice Vid. I like the sound of that. :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RStangsOC Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hey Brian, Good job Now you will have to get some action video on the strip for us to see Hope you are enjoying Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hey Brian, Good job Now you will have to get some action video on the strip for us to see Hope you are enjoying Page I'll definitely get some video action from the dragstrip. Worth noting if you sell this same blower to anyone else is that the Vortech supplied tune may be 50 state smog legal and warranty friendly, but it did not produce anywhere near the power that Vortech claims with their tune. My suggestion to anyone is a custom dyno-tune for a supercharger, and not to rely on the supplied tune from the manufacturer. Vortech's tune parameters were very badly jumbled (I no tuning expert, but looking over the tables with our tuning guru at the Horsepower Ranch showed a lot of funky fluctuations). My hats off to John at the Horsepower Ranch for safely tuning in much more hp and torque versus the Vortech tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Nice Vid. I like the sound of that. :happy feet: Thanks, Rob. It was a good sound, but soooo loud inside the shop at full throttle/boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: Great news, Brian. Cool video, too! Congrats! Are those numbers SAE corrected? What was the temp/baro pressure? And what's your A/F ratio? Can't wait to see the numbers at the track. We took CH53Driver's Shelby 500 to the speed shop here yesterday. He had an Evolution canned tune. Baseline was about 440 rwhp. Five pulls later, the tuner got him up to 470. It was running much too lean. (13.5) - he took him down to 11.7. We compared graphs. His blower make the hp right Now! Mine (like your's) climbs steadily with the rpm's. Have you thought about doing cams/springs? :happy feet: All numbers were SAE corrected, so I didn't pay much attention to the temp/barometric pressure. However, I glanced at the weather station in the shop a couple times and noticed it was in the high 50's to low 60's for temp outside and the barometer was falling (in the 27-28 range). Uncorrected power #'s were on the screen, too, and were a bit lower than the SAE corrected numbers, accordingly, but not by too much. Also worth noting, the dyno was a Mustang Dyno (not a Dynojet), so I've been told they read a little bit lower than a Dynojet would have. I'm curious how much different the power levels would have read on a Dynojet. A/F ratio at WOT was 11.5 all the way across, which is spot on. Plenty of fuel pressure, too, so the car will be super safe at the track. I was really surprised with the 10.5 psi of boost (at 6,400 rpm's), as I was expecting 8.5 to 9.5 (which is what Vortech said it would be). If only I had the intercooler, like you, then we could have dialed in a lot more timing to make more hp and especially more torque! Oh well, I'm very happy with the #'s considering that I bought the standard S-trim. CH53's lean condition is yet another reason that a canned tune is just plain scary on a supercharged car. It's worth the money for a dyno-tune to make 100% sure that the car is safe before you start hammering on it or racing. I've been thinking about cams, but would likely do the Comp Cams NSR (no springs required) cams to keep within my wife-approved budget! Not as much gain as doing springs, too, but it took 4 years to talk my wife into spending for the blower. I think some shorty headers and high-flow cats would be helpful, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hey Brian, Good job Now you will have to get some action video on the strip for us to see Hope you are enjoying Page Hey, Page, just gotta say thanks again for the killer deal on the blower. Parts, labor to install, and dyno-tuning all totalled a little under $5K. That's a bargain to gain so much power. I know I couldn't have got the blower deal past my wife without your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 All numbers were SAE corrected, so I didn't pay much attention to the temp/barometric pressure. However, I glanced at the weather station in the shop a couple times and noticed it was in the high 50's to low 60's for temp outside and the barometer was falling (in the 27-28 range). Uncorrected power #'s were on the screen, too, and were a bit lower than the SAE corrected numbers, accordingly, but not by too much. Also worth noting, the dyno was a Mustang Dyno (not a Dynojet), so I've been told they read a little bit lower than a Dynojet would have. I'm curious how much different the power levels would have read on a Dynojet. A/F ratio at WOT was 11.5 all the way across, which is spot on. Plenty of fuel pressure, too, so the car will be super safe at the track. I was really surprised with the 10.5 psi of boost (at 6,400 rpm's), as I was expecting 8.5 to 9.5 (which is what Vortech said it would be). If only I had the intercooler, like you, then we could have dialed in a lot more timing to make more hp and especially more torque! Oh well, I'm very happy with the #'s considering that I bought the standard S-trim. CH53's lean condition is yet another reason that a canned tune is just plain scary on a supercharged car. It's worth the money for a dyno-tune to make 100% sure that the car is safe before you start hammering on it or racing. I've been thinking about cams, but would likely do the Comp Cams NSR (no springs required) cams to keep within my wife-approved budget! Not as much gain as doing springs, too, but it took 4 years to talk my wife into spending for the blower. I think some shorty headers and high-flow cats would be helpful, too. Your numbers look good! Sounds like your tuner knows his stuff! Before you do the high flow cats - consider exhaust cut-outs? I'm not sure which avenue is better - but I just learned about the electric cut-outs and had I'd known, I would have gone that route as opposed to an off-road X-Pipe. Yeah - the valve srpings are labor-intensive - but you need to hear my car at idle!! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Great video! I haven't had mine dynoed but I imagine that I would be maybe a tad more rwhp but not much. Brian's comments about the cams reminded me that Comp has a new phase limiter cam set up for the 3V. It is supposed to preserve the lower RPM torque characteristics while yielding some good HP gains in the upper RPM range. Don't know how it sounds at idle though.... :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I could put a lawn chair behind my car in the driveway and listen to it all afternoon! And - is it running rich? When I shut it down and open my door, I can smell the fuel! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 there is nothing like the lope of a V-8 that has been cammed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 As much as I love the sound of a big camshaft profile, the cost to install cams AND springs is huge on our cars. My wife and I stretched the budget to do the blower, so I'll either be waiting a long time for cam/springs or I'll be settling for the Comp Cams NSR's. I've seen the electric exhaust cutouts, but they're about $250 each ($500 for both sides). Cool concept, though. How about something vacuum operated like the new Corvettes have as an option from the factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Went back to the Horsepower Ranch again yesterday for more tuning. This time, though, it was to get the transmission to upshift shift better/firmer, downshift better, and make better use of the big stall converter I have by setting lock-up points soon after the stall speed (in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears). John once again worked his magic. The trans & converter now work in 100% harmony with the supercharger's powerband and should really help at the track. It'll be Aug 20th before I can get to the track to get results in the 1/4 mile. I'll go out on a limb right now and predict a 12.30 @ 111 mph in the 1/4 mph, but would be happy with anything under 12.50 and faster than 110. This blower has done wonders for power and the driving pleasure. While not making huge #'s on the dyno (351 rwhp = about 439 hp at the crank), this is a standard non-intercooled blower on a 100% stock motor with 100% stock exhaust. The only other mods in the car are 4.10 gears and a 4,800 rpm stall converter (neither of which add power). I wonder if putting the V6 grille and V6 badges cost me much horsepower? I hear that putting Type R badges on Hondas is usually good for 40-50 hp; is the opposite true, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hey, Brian - Sounds like you're getting everything to work together! Can't wait to see the new numbers in the 1/4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStangFanatic Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Awesome Brian. I am enjoying the progress you are making with the auto tranny car. You have me chomping at the bit to install my supercharger. Keep us posted with your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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