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New Issue For GT500 Drag Racers - Not My Car!


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"Borrowed from a post by Kryo-Genik on SVT Performance"

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313366

 

 

now this one has nothing to do with my truck..but I found this funny as ****!

Ill post the pics first then give the story after..and ill start with the full view..the part number then the damage...

 

driveshaft3.jpg

 

driveshaft1.jpg

 

driveshaft2.jpg

 

if you can't guess what it is off hand..well Ill tell you the story.

While I was talking with my service rep he asked me to follow him over to the tranny workshop to show me something funny.

i walked into seeing the second picture...well what it is is this.

A guy preordered a Shelby GT500 and paid 50k in cash Friday he left with the car and came back about 4 hours later with what you see above. The SOB beat on the car the first ****in day he bought it..no break in time what so ever and twisted the driveshaft like a friggin soda can!

 

And I thought the solid axle would get rid of my breakiing half shafts issue. :runaway:

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I find it hard to believe that anyone could break it in four hours, unless of course they had their slicks with them when they picked the car up, and a track was open that was conviently located near the dealership.

 

Wasn't anyone on this board was it?

 

I'm gonna have to get under the car tonight to check out the two piece drive shaft. I had a steel one made for my Terminator, may have to now do something here too.

 

LB

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If the story is true, that looks like a defective part.

 

Of course, another possibility exists: I wonder if this guy's BUDDY didn't trash HIS OWN Shelby's drive shaft at the track with some hopped up performance mods, and the friend who just picked up his Shelby went home after he picked up his new GT500, put the defective part on his new car, and then went back to the dealer crying, "FOUL!" Just a thought. Paranoia? You decide.... :shrug:

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:shrug:

 

Ford 'claimes' the GT500 was drag launch tested 500 times!!! to prove durability of the reinforced differential. If that driveshaft is off a GT500, I'd sue their a$$...........can't remember which mag or article but read it in a few diff. ones. I'd like to read the whole post but I don't visit the SVT bitch sessions anymore.

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:shrug:

 

Ford 'claimes' the GT500 was drag launch tested 500 times!!! to prove durability of the reinforced differential. If that driveshaft is off a GT500, I'd sue their a$$...........can't remember which mag or article but read it in a few diff. ones. I'd like to read the whole post but I don't visit the SVT bitch sessions anymore.

 

Looks like it broke at the CV joint, then tore up the rest of itpost-6239-1156601210_thumb.jpg Circled in red.

post-6239-1156601210_thumb.jpg

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Looks like it broke at the CV joint, then tore up the rest of itdriveshaft2.JPG Circled in red.

 

 

 

I read the same in a magazine about 500 drag launches and not problems. It seems to me having a one piece drive shaft would be better, less parts to wear or break. I am sure there is a reason for 2 piece just not knowledgeable enough to know.

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I read the same in a magazine about 500 drag launches and not problems. It seems to me having a one piece drive shaft would be better, less parts to wear or break. I am sure there is a reason for 2 piece just not knowledgeable enough to know.

 

It would reduce some of weight, the one piece shaft, better yet a kevelar one would be killer :happy feet:

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Here is how the failure occurs, as it occurs the same in the Mustang Gt's as well.

 

The front tube is twisted from the torque, either be traction with a good set of tires or with a bit of wheel hop gone way bad.

 

When the front tube is twisted (which occurs at the swedged end) the shaft is effectivly shortened (as noted by the way the center bearing bracket is bent), once the shaft is shortened the CV joint pulls apart and the large bearings in the CV are seperated from their cup and ultimately diengage the front shaft from the rear.

 

I was really surprised to see that the GT 500 recieved the same poor design shaft as the Mustang GT, especially because our stock shaft failed with only 300rwhp, and low 1.60 60ft with Drag Radials.

 

The only way anyone is going to get 500 launches out of one of these stock shafts is by spinning the tires, they will not last if the car hooks or wheel hops.

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Here is how the failure occurs, as it occurs the same in the Mustang Gt's as well.

 

The front tube is twisted from the torque, either be traction with a good set of tires or with a bit of wheel hop gone way bad.

 

When the front tube is twisted (which occurs at the swedged end) the shaft is effectivly shortened (as noted by the way the center bearing bracket is bent), once the shaft is shortened the CV joint pulls apart and the large bearings in the CV are seperated from their cup and ultimately diengage the front shaft from the rear.

 

I was really surprised to see that the GT 500 recieved the same poor design shaft as the Mustang GT, especially because our stock shaft failed with only 300rwhp, and low 1.60 60ft with Drag Radials.

 

The only way anyone is going to get 500 launches out of one of these stock shafts is by spinning the tires, they will not last if the car hooks or wheel hops.

 

 

Another guy on this site got a normal Mustang GT steering wheel emblem on his GT500.. I wonder if there are any other parts that are getting put on these cars that shouldn't be?

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Another guy on this site got a normal Mustang GT steering wheel emblem on his GT500.. I wonder if there are any other parts that are getting put on these cars that shouldn't be?

 

 

Seems highly likely that such a mixup will occur at some point. No system is perfect, and the Mustang GT and the GT500 ARE built on the same line....

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the skeptic in me wonders why this issue shows up about the time a very expensive fix shows up. I am sure that the one piece driveshaft being offered is a very good one, but the timing just bugs me. I would suggest that we wait a bit before fixing a problem that doesn't typically happen. If the shelby drive shaft is a weak link, it will show up soon enough

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the skeptic in me wonders why this issue shows up about the time a very expensive fix shows up. I am sure that the one piece driveshaft being offered is a very good one, but the timing just bugs me. I would suggest that we wait a bit before fixing a problems that doesn't typically happen. If the shelby drive shaft is a wink link, it will show up soon enough

 

 

+1 ..and if it was a legit GT500 failure, it's much more likely something simple <lol> I doubt the part is underengineered for street use.

 

May be the old marketing ploy: FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt -- create it and they will buy) :hysterical:

 

.

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+1 ..and if it was a legit GT500 failure, it's much more likely something simple <lol> I doubt the part is underengineered for street use.

 

May be the old marketing ploy: FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt -- create it and they will buy) :hysterical:

 

.

 

 

 

Man, if the GT500 is using the same driveshaft design as the Mustang GT... you WILL break that driveshaft if you launch hard, often enough. I brought up the "fix" in my earlier post in this thread because I'm aware of the issues that people have had with the crappy driveshaft design already. My 2007 Mustang GT is arriving soon and one of the first mods I'm doing is this driveshaft swap. FYI - I have NO connection to Powerhouse other than knowledge of their products. They are highly spoken of (btw) on other serious Ford boards.

 

If you own a GT500 take a look underneath... if it's the 2 piece driveshaft then you have the same piece of crap that the Mustang GT's get - only diff is the spline count due to the transmission differences.

 

It probably is not "underengineered for street use" ... after all, Carroll Shelby (or was that Carroll O'Connor?) himself built the thing.

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hey now, that was kind of a wack on 68fastback. His was a perfectly accurate statement, and there really was no need to dimish it with the comment about the shelby being "personally" made by ........that kind of comment adds nothing to a factual discussion, and can be used to justify any emotion and arguement you wish to make about the shelby. I'd like to think that you can do better than that.

 

The reality is, no one has to go into the immediate worry mode about the drive shaft unless they hurry down to the strip after bolting on a set of sticky tires. That excludes most of us for a while. For the rest that do this, well you will be the test cases for the rest of us. Time will tell how much stress the drive shaft will take, and what all the weak points of the drive train are. No reason to react yet to possible issues, until we find out what the real issues are.

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:shrug:

 

Before everyone flips out, do we even know that is off a GT500 ????? or the Mustang GT. If so, how???

 

 

I can tell you that it is a GT500 shaft, it is indicated by the #3333 on the tag, the Mustang GT shaft is indicated by the #2222. I would imagine that is for assembly line identification.

 

Ford may have tested 500 drag launches on these shafts, but I am sure that it was with the traction control active, and fairly aggressive torque management in the programming, one these cars are tuned with tires you will see more failures.

 

 

Keep in mind that this is not a "new car" as it seems most of the folks on the Shelby boards are in a bit of denial when it comes to realizing that their car is justa Mustang GT with a larger motor, and different trans.

 

We as the Mustang GT community have been around the block with this platform, and we realize the shortcomings that Ford has delivered to us and with that said you must realize that problems are going to be common, and this shaft issue happens to be one of them.

Below is a pic of the twisted portion of a MustangGT shaft that happened nearly a year ago on our Shop car when the car was still Naturally asperated and running mid 12's.

post-6691-1156942125_thumb.jpg

post-6691-1156942822_thumb.jpg

post-6691-1156942850_thumb.jpg

post-6691-1156942125_thumb.jpg

post-6691-1156942822_thumb.jpg

post-6691-1156942850_thumb.jpg

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FYI

 

I did crawl under my GT500 and it has the two piece driveshaft as pictured in my first post. I've seen enough broken driveshafts and halfshafts on Terminators to realize this WILL be a problem on the GT500's when used at the dragstrip. If you plan to race your car, either bring a spare, or trailer it. With the current design, two driveshaft loops may also be requied. One to keep the car from polevaulting if the front joint beaks. The other to protect the gas tanks on either side if it breaks at the center connection. I also have no affilliation with anyone offering a solution to this potential problem at this time, but plan to pursue a local solution before spending that much on the fix presented above.

 

Thanks Mike for the additional information and pictures.

 

LB

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hey now, that was kind of a wack on 68fastback. His was a perfectly accurate statement, and there really was no need to dimish it with the comment about the shelby being "personally" made by ........that kind of comment adds nothing to a factual discussion, and can be used to justify any emotion and arguement you wish to make about the shelby. I'd like to think that you can do better than that.

 

 

 

I do not agree that his statement was accurate but ... Yeah, my quip about ol' CS was uncalled for. My bad and I apologize. Sarcasm was the order of the day last night I guess.

 

:party:

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Mike, thanks for the additional information and discussion. I am in no way bashing you or your product. It looks like a fine piece of work, and is something that I have already been considering once I actually get my shelby and do some modding. Replacement seems like a win-win-win situation

-no more worry about breaking it

-less vehicle weight

-a little better drivetrain efficiency

 

My point revolves around that fact that the shelby buyers seem to be a somewhat different group than the average terminator buyer. I am speculating that most shelbies will never see a drag strip, or really much abuse at all. In fact, many buyers probably have no experience with this type of car, and will just be driving it around like a normal car. It is just this inexperience that may cause them to do things like replacing driveshafts when they really have no need to.

 

On another note, do you know if the evo guys have beefed up their drivetrain? They are up into the mid 500s for rwhp and seem to be going agressive on their tire choice. Will be interesting to see when/how they start seeing some weak links.

 

I do not agree that his statement was accurate but ... Yeah, my quip about ol' CS was uncalled for. My bad and I apologize. Sarcasm was the order of the day last night I guess.

 

:party:

 

 

Sex, drugs and rock & roll :bandance: its all good.

 

By the rest of my posts you kinda see my stance on this. I will probably change it out, but I am a bit crazy for an old guy. I have just never lost my competitiveness when it comes to cars. If you get a fast car, darn it, it should be the fastest car!!!!!! Probably will become my money pit.

 

John

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Evolution Is using one of our 05-07 GT shafts they modded to fit the GT500.

 

We now offer a direct replacement shaft.

 

I would reccomend that anyone considering the process of replacing the driveshaft surf sites like ModularFords, TheMustangSource or even Coral, or Stangnet for more info.

 

 

I have to stress that the Shelby GT 500 is not a "New from the ground up" car. All the problems that plague any (05-07 V8/V6/GT350/GT500/Saleen S281/Rousch Stage1,2,3) SN197 mustang or any other variant will be the same.

I can count on my two hands the little differences in the GT500 vs. a Mustang GT. They are few. With the exception of the obvious.

 

Take a moment and learn about the whole platform of what your cars are based on, you will see the same problem surface on any of them, if GT500 owners do not take the time to realize that, it will make them no different than the avaerge high end car owner.

 

 

If you have questions, please let me know. I am here to share all my First Hand Experiences, and knowledge gathered in the past 3 years on this particular platform.

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hey now, that was kind of a wack on 68fastback. His was a perfectly accurate statement, and there really was no need to dimish it with the comment about the shelby being "personally" made by ........that kind of comment adds nothing to a factual discussion, and can be used to justify any emotion and arguement you wish to make about the shelby. I'd like to think that you can do better than that.

 

The reality is, no one has to go into the immediate worry mode about the drive shaft unless they hurry down to the strip after bolting on a set of sticky tires. That excludes most of us for a while. For the rest that do this, well you will be the test cases for the rest of us. Time will tell how much stress the drive shaft will take, and what all the weak points of the drive train are. No reason to react yet to possible issues, until we find out what the real issues are.

 

 

Thanks, KC/John, that was my point -- unlikely a street problem

 

------------------------.

 

Evangalist, no offense taken -- I know how/who designed, engineered and built this car (and Carroll O'Connor knows his driveshafts! <lol> ) :doh:

 

Just some thoughts... if the tags are diff, then the parts are diff and we don't know if it's just the splines -- could be different tube spec, either wall-thickness or temper -- but if the Termies and heated-up GTs are twisting 'em at the track, then we can probably assume the GT500 might also under similar conditions with similar engineering margin, even if thicker/more tempered. I'm not sure why Ford did the two piece, maybe an unsprung-weight consideration.

 

I find it interesting that's it's twisting at an angle, not breaking/tearing or twisting apart per se. That would seem to indicate a design-point or dynamics problem rather than a basic engineering problem. Of course, the shaft wall-thickness could just be too thin for its diameter/torque spec (or a tube defect). My first reaction was wondering if this isn't a more subtle engineering miss since, at the instant the torque-load is applied, the suspension squats, changing part of the instantaneous torque load from all torque to torque plus a lesser joint angle-change bending force from the squat (since the yoke pivots add angle-change resistance under load). And while that appears to be what the failure shows, it should not occur with IRS Cobras/Termies (no shaft angle change on squat) which takes me back to wall thickness/temper or other dynamics -- or diff-angle wrap which should be very limited with the three-point and on the Termies IRS.

 

I scanned a few sites that do custom shaft work and Denny's looked intersting -- they do 6060alloy shafts but say that for clutched racing vehicles over 3400lbs, steel is the answer (my summary). Here's a link if interested Denny's Driveshafts (prices look comparable too). I'm sure there are plenty of others too.

 

For track use with slicks/drag-radials, I suspect a replacement shaft will point us to the next problem spot. I've heard the 3.31s in the GT500 are specially hardened and the 8.8 housing, tho looking identical to the GT, is actually beefed internally. Since the 3.73 and 4.10 gearsets predate the GT500 and are therefore, I'm assuming, not specially tempered, they may be the next weak link, tho they've held up pretty well with beefed Termies over 600rwHP.

 

Anyhow, just some thoughts. Still, for street use I suspect it's pretty darn solid. Wonder who makes the shaft part... if there's a lot of valid warranty work it will pinch them.

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the 500 and GT shafts are the same by design, only different in length.

 

I agree that most of these cars will not find their way to the track, but some will, as well as they should.

 

Mine will and Mike, if you hear from me you'll know the shaft failed. ;)

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Guest evilchris

I can tell you that it is a GT500 shaft, it is indicated by the #3333 on the tag, the Mustang GT shaft is indicated by the #2222. I would imagine that is for assembly line identification.

 

Ford may have tested 500 drag launches on these shafts, but I am sure that it was with the traction control active, and fairly aggressive torque management in the programming, one these cars are tuned with tires you will see more failures.

Keep in mind that this is not a "new car" as it seems most of the folks on the Shelby boards are in a bit of denial when it comes to realizing that their car is justa Mustang GT with a larger motor, and different trans.

 

We as the Mustang GT community have been around the block with this platform, and we realize the shortcomings that Ford has delivered to us and with that said you must realize that problems are going to be common, and this shaft issue happens to be one of them.

Below is a pic of the twisted portion of a MustangGT shaft that happened nearly a year ago on our Shop car when the car was still Naturally asperated and running mid 12's.

 

 

I welcome you here man, we need more people with REAL knowledge like you! Being new to s197 ( 1 week old 07' GT ) what else should I think about other than replacing my driveshaft right off the bat?

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