Cams,Headers instead of supercharger.

[07SHELBY GT]

I realize most Shelby owners are interested in keeping them modified within the registry.But has anyone here done a cam,Headers/Tune as a power adder.I realize also to achieve the power levels of a supercharger with this method is nearly impoosible on a daily driver but work is slow and with the economy not looking to move ahead any time soon I thought I would investigate a cheaper alternative to adding some decent power.Anyone?

[LuLu]

There was a time in my life when I believed in building a street engine from the inside out, as you suggest. However, these changes are permanent and become part of the car. When the car goes up for sale, so does your investment in high performance parts. Moreover, who is to say that the new owner/buyer agrees with your choice in improvements? If not, your improvements become a target for haggling on the resale price, and you may lose.

 

Yes, supercharging is more expensive, but not by that much. I suggested here a while back that a decent polish and port job, cams, and associated improvements that flush out new power could approach the 4000. mark. That's close to what blower kits cost (depending on your choice) and the install is relatively painless in comparasion. Plus, no matter what you build, you will not match the power of super/turbo charging.

 

My last thought on this is again, resale. Depending on your choice of blower kits, it's all bolt-on. If the time comes that you want to sell your SGT, the blower kit can come off and be sold seperately to recover at least some of your investment, while the car is restored to a most desireable "bone stock" original condition.

 

Super/turbo charging is a larger initial investment, but the lure of ease of installation and potential power gains wins out, IMHO.

 

Happy motoring, gents.

[blueshawk]

I realize most Shelby owners are interested in keeping them modified within the registry.But has anyone here done a cam,Headers/Tune as a power adder.I realize also to achieve the power levels of a supercharger with this method is nearly impoosible on a daily driver but work is slow and with the economy not looking to move ahead any time soon I thought I would investigate a cheaper alternative to adding some decent power.Anyone?

 

 

This is interesting. I think with cams, headers, larger throttle body, CAI and tune you could get to between 350 had 360 hp (at the crank) for less than $2500 in parts.

[SGT2666]

You can certainly pick up some horsepower but you will end up with a somewhat less friendly motor and poor gas mileage. Superchargers and Turbos are pretty great from that standpoint, they don't add stress to the motor unless you have your foot in it and they idle and run down the road like a stocker with little effect on gas mileage. While I understand that you are looking at the pocket book, I would take a real hard look at saving for a power adder before opening up my new motor.

[07SHELBY GT]

You can certainly pick up some horsepower but you will end up with a somewhat less friendly motor and poor gas mileage. Superchargers and Turbos are pretty great from that standpoint, they don't add stress to the motor unless you have your foot in it and they idle and run down the road like a stocker with little effect on gas mileage. While I understand that you are looking at the pocket book, I would take a real hard look at saving for a power adder before opening up my new motor.

I'm with you guys,I might have to put it off a little while until things look safer money wise.I just hate to throw 6K at my car and find out that the slwdown is only going to get worse and I could have used the money better elsewhere.Thanks for the input guys!

[hotrodbob]

I have been looking at doing cams ,turn and headers are last. I have done some reading on cam's and find some good stuff. Comp Cams seem's to be the one's to look at. You can go with one that well give you around 25HP without springs or one with new springs and get 40HP. All so Comp cam's is working on a new intake that is to be around 40HP.

 

I have done the underdrive pullies and elbow. Drive shaft is in the works which free's up about 10HP. It is like the under drive's, it done's not give you anymore, just let's you have some more of what is all ready there.

[UltraStang#1]

This is interesting. I think with cams, headers, larger throttle body, CAI and tune you could get to between 350 had 360 hp (at the crank) for less than $2500 in parts.

Larger throttle body won't do any good. They have been tested and tested and tested. Not worth the price of admission. The stocker is good for plenty of horsepower. You might get away with that price tag but it will be close. You will need a very good tuner and a good engine to start. That is a very lofty goal and not as easy to obtain as you might think.

 

Good cams are $1100 to $1400. Valve springs to support those cams are another $300-$400. Headers that will actually produce power are not cheap either. American Racing, Kooks, or Borla are over $1000. Then you have the supporting exhaust system which will run $500 to $1000. Once you are said and done you've got a lot of money tied up in the car and you won't have over 350 hp.

 

It is your own individual choice, of course, but a 350 hp N/A car isn't easy to come by.

[SGT3517]

Larger throttle body won't do any good. They have been tested and tested and tested. Not worth the price of admission. The stocker is good for plenty of horsepower. You might get away with that price tag but it will be close. You will need a very good tuner and a good engine to start. That is a very lofty goal and not as easy to obtain as you might think.

 

Good cams are $1100 to $1400. Valve springs to support those cams are another $300-$400. Headers that will actually produce power are not cheap either. American Racing, Kooks, or Borla are over $1000. Then you have the supporting exhaust system which will run $500 to $1000. Once you are said and done you've got a lot of money tied up in the car and you won't have over 350 hp.

 

It is your own individual choice, of course, but a 350 hp N/A car isn't easy to come by.

 

 

Stage 3 N/A Cams for 3Vs with no springs required. $645 + Install.

http://www.brenspeed.com/mustang_2005/camshafts.html

Kooks LTs and shorty catted X pipe for $1299!!

http://www.brenspeed.com/mustang_2005/headers.html

 

Both of these items installed would be around $3000. Half the price of a whipple! Granted it would be about Half the HP level Vs Whipple. I too am torn between the 2 routes. What I'll probably do is just keep it the way it is....pay it down and get a new Camaro.

[LuLu]

This is interesting. I think with cams, headers, larger throttle body, CAI and tune you could get to between 350 had 360 hp (at the crank) for less than $2500 in parts.

1) I understand your point, but I disagree with your projection of investment. Many owners either do not have the talent, nor the time to play under the hood. Thus, labor (even if your own) must be included in the projection. What you make per hour at your full time job should be a guide of what you pay yourself while tinkering in the garage. A flat rate manual is also handy.

 

2) A larger throttle body is somewhat a waste if you don't support that with a ported intake, and I'm not comfortable with the idea of cutting on a plastic intake manifold. Otherwise, it becomes a bottleneck to the air charge, and you don't get everything you paid for.

 

3) Larger lb/hr injectors will follow, and larger injectors may require some improvement in the fuel system. Please keep this in mind?

 

4) I see no sense in camming up a 3V without pulling the heads and porting them out. Absent this, it's kinda like doing the job half way. Clean up the valve seat with a nice 3 angle cut, port match the headers and intake runners, maybe add lighter but stronger valves (Titanium?) and a set of springs that won't bind at 5000 RPM? Oh, and don't ignore the valve stem seals...

 

5) You're looking at 4K+, and you're still running a stock bottom end...Go figure?

 

My point is this...Building the engine seems a thing of the past to me. Fine for push rods in hot rods, but the factory/OEM modular engines are pretty sweet as they come off the production line. Just make them breath easier, and the less intrusive (but more expensive) manner is super/turbo charging.

 

If you're very serious about racing your SGT, pull the engine and go through it all. Rods, pistons, crank, ect. IMHO, if you are going to crack some OEM seals, crack them all. Remember now, my friends, building HP at the crank is one thing, but it's torque that moves the car. Plan your mods to build torque at the rear wheels, and the RWHP will follow.

 

Just my .02C for a Sunday afternoon...Happy motoring, gents.

[shelbytexan]

put a 410 gear in the rear and you will fill like you gained 50hp.headers and one piece aluminum drive shaft and you will out run 95% of the cars on the road.it all depends on how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go.nothing will give you more power for the money than a supercharger but you could put other add-ons now cheaper and add supercharger later and your add-ons would just inhance your supercharger.you might like your power good enough that you might decide you don't want a supercharger.you can't lose either way.good-luck.

[07SHELBY GT]

Still up in the air about what to do.Nothing like the sound of cams and headers.Nothing like the power of a supercharger.What to do,What to do!

[shelbytexan]

do what your pocketbook allows and you can always add on later.i believe you are just itching to spend some money.if the boss allows you to spend now,then hurry.let us know what you do.

[SGT ShuttleGuy]

put a 410 gear in the rear and you will fill like you gained 50hp.headers and one piece aluminum drive shaft and you will out run 95% of the cars on the road.it all depends on how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go.nothing will give you more power for the money than a supercharger but you could put other add-ons now cheaper and add supercharger later and your add-ons would just inhance your supercharger.you might like your power good enough that you might decide you don't want a supercharger.you can't lose either way.good-luck.

So, what would 410's and an Al drive shaft run me?

[shelbytexan]

So, what would 410's and an Al drive shaft run me?

[ilmor]

Anyone know, or can give a good estimate, of what the flywheel HP of an SGT would be if only shorty headers and underdrive pullys were added, along with a proper tune? In other words, the 319 hp would increase to _______ HP??

[69dejavue]

Anyone know, or can give a good estimate, of what the flywheel HP of an SGT would be if only shorty headers and underdrive pullys were added, along with a proper tune? In other words, the 319 hp would increase to _______ HP??

 

The shorty headers are supposed to be about 10-12 HP and an aluminum drive shaft, while not adding HP, is supposed to be the equivalent of about 10 HP. I contacted one vendor re the aluminum drive shaft and was told it would be about 700.00. Don't forget to add the drive shaft safety loops. I personally would not be interested in 4.10s for everyday use. You would be turning too many rpms all day long. More noise, less mileage, more wear. Great for the strip but not highway cruising or everyday use. And it would lower the top speed.

[SGT2666]

The guys from horspower TV just stroked one to 302 they did cams, headers, throttle body all the usual supects and they dynoed 378 rear wheel.

[shelbytexan]

I'LL AGREE THAT IF YOU ARE USING YOUR CAR FOR A DAILY DRIVER THEN YOU WOULDN;T WANT 410 GEARS BUT IF YOU DRIVE JUST AROUND THE HOUSE AND OUT OF TOWN JUST OCCASIONALLY THEN YOU WILL GET MORE FEEL OUT OF 410 GEARS THAN ANY ONE THING YOU CAN PUT ON YOUR CAR EXCEPT SUPERCHARGING. A GEAR SWAP COMPLETE IS ABOUT 600.00 PARTS AND LABOR.SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM HAVE PUT 410 GEARS ON THERE CARS AND THEY LOVE THEM.HEADERS WILL GIVE ABOUT 10HP TO THE REAR WHEELS AND PULLEY SWAPS ARE ADVERTISED AT ABOUT 10HP TO THE REAR WHEELS.YOU HAVE ABOUT 280 HP TO THE REAR WHEELS FROM THE FACTORY.WITH HEADERS PULLEY SWAP AND CUSTOM TUNE,YOU WOULD SEE CLOSE TO 350HP TO THE FLYWHEEL WHICH WOULD BE NO SLOUCH ON THE ROAD.WITH 410 GEARS AND A ALUMINUM DRIVE-SHAFT YOU WOULD BE IN THE VERY LOW 13'S IN THE QUARTER WHICH IS CHALLENGER-HEMI TERRITORY.SPYDER DRIVESHAFTS ADVERTISE THER MUSTANG WITH AN AUTOMATIC IS .21 SECONDS FASTER IN THE QUARTER TESTING BEFORE AND AFTER THE SAME DAY.DECISIONS-DECISIONS,GOOD LUCK.