Absolute hood scoop final fix.

[racephan]

Chip,

 

Thanks for the update!

 

Do you see placing a screen/grill of some sort at the mouth of the scoop? Any thought to crafting something to direct the airflow towards the CAI?

 

 

Jeff

 

 

Chip is correct..VE (vinyl ester) is the way to go. I know this because I am a sales rep for a FRP (Fibergalss Reinforced Plastics) Company. VE can stand up to the heat. Great job Chip.

I know it wont be long before a solution will be here. Either a aftermarket or Shelby provided....

[willyumm930]

[Webba]

Chip is correct..VE (vinyl ester) is the way to go. I know this because I am a sales rep for a FRP (Fibergalss Reinforced Plastics) Company. VE can stand up to the heat. Great job Chip.

I know it wont be long before a solution will be here. Either a aftermarket or Shelby provided....

 

Do you work for Structural Fiberglass in Pa. by chance?

[Dig-It]

Chip,

 

I've been studying the pics you posted very closely because I'm very interested in purchasing one of these scoops. So please don't be insulted when I ask: Why are you using only 21 fasteners (rivet-nuts and hex head screws) instead of the "factory" 25? Is it because you couldn't use the existing rivet holes and had to drill new ones for the rivet-nuts? I'm sure 21 would be more than sufficient to hold the scoop on and that four more would be for asthetics only.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Jeff,

 

Heath will be back in town on April 28th. He will paint my hood scoop and I will post photos soon thereafter. I have decided to make the hood scoop functional for two reasons. First, the Shelby GT is a modern day re-creation of the 1966 GT350. The scoop on the 1966 GT350 was open to the engine compartment although it did not feed cold air directly into the air cleaner. Having the scoop open, or functional, makes it look better though I don't think it actually served any purpose as that opening in the middle of an automobile hood is a low pressure area. That's the reason the scoops on the 1968 Shelby Mustang were moved to a high pressure area in the front of the hood. So my first reason for making the scoop functional is to facilitate some airflow either into or out of the engine compartment and because it'll look great.

 

My second reason is the upcoming installation at Shelby's facility in Las Vegas of my Ford Racing Wipple supercharger. I like the looks of the Whipple better than I like the Paxton and the Whipple produces more horsepower at lower RPMs which suits my type of driving. What I didn't like about the Whipple was having to remove the strut tower brace. We have taken some measurements and utilizing the additional clearance that the open scoop will provide we have engineered a modification to an existing Shelby strut tower brace that will clear the top of the Whipple AND will clear the bottom of my open hood scoop. Now I don't have to have one or the other, I can have them both. :happy feet: The Ford Mustang hood lends itself easily to this modification as there is no substantial hood bracing underneath the area of the scoop. As the hood is made out of aluminum, the opening will not provide the corrosion problem than it would on a steel hood. It will be several weeks before I can tackle the Whipple strut tower brace. I will post photos of that as soon as it is finished. Photos of my completed and functional hood scoop will be posted in about 10 days. Heath will post a price for a clone of my hood scoop, mounting hardware, and instructions, in about a week. All the best.

 

Chip

 

Getting cake and eating it too! Keep us posted this may be the ideas I will pattern my car after, very very cool!

 

Edit: Why not save the original scoop buy a take off factory hood and stripe and cut and whipple away...HHHmMMMMMM might be onto something...?

[Dig-It]

Getting cake and eating it too! Keep us posted this may be the ideas I will pattern my car after, very very cool!

 

Edit: Why not save the original scoop buy a take off factory hood and stripe and cut and whipple away...HHHmMMMMMM might be onto something...?

 

Thinking the same thing.

[racephan]

Do you work for Structural Fiberglass in Pa. by chance?

 

No...

[JeffIsHereToo]

Chip,

 

I've been studying the pics you posted very closely because I'm very interested in purchasing one of these scoops. So please don't be insulted when I ask: Why are you using only 21 fasteners (rivet-nuts and hex head screws) instead of the "factory" 25? Is it because you couldn't use the existing rivet holes and had to drill new ones for the rivet-nuts? I'm sure 21 would be more than sufficient to hold the scoop on and that four more would be for asthetics only.

 

Ugh..I didn't notice that! I really don't want to drill new holes if that would even work now. I have the holes for the factory 25 and 21 may be an issue.

[blueshawk]

Ugh..I didn't notice that! I really don't want to drill new holes if that would even work now. I have the holes for the factory 25 and 21 may be an issue.

 

 

You probably can get the scoop without the holes which is the way you would want it anyway. This will allow you to drill the holes to match the holes in your hood.

[ChipBeck]

Chip, I've been studying the pics you posted very closely because I'm very interested in purchasing one of these scoops. So please don't be insulted when I ask: Why are you using only 21 fasteners (rivet-nuts and hex head screws) instead of the "factory" 25? Is it because you couldn't use the existing rivet holes and had to drill new ones for the rivet-nuts? I'm sure 21 would be more than sufficient to hold the scoop on and that four more would be for asthetics only.

 

That was a great catch. I didn't know that until you pointed it out. I had not actually counted the number of screws and assumed that Heath had used the exact same number as in the old scoop. I doubt there was any particular reason for him going to 21 from 25 so I will have him change it to 25. Using the old scoop as a pattern he should be able to drill the rivet holes in the exact same spots so those owners who have already had a riveted scoop installed can use the same holes. I am looking forward to Heath's return on Monday and as soon as I have more time I will post an update with some information I think you'll find surprising. I believe I know why Shelby has had so much trouble solving this problem as each seemingly easy solution produces at least one additional complicated problem.

 

I have now shown my new hood scoop mounted on my Shelby GT to dozens of auto enthusiasts. Everybody loves it and is amazed when I tell them that we built it from scratch and it's shape is visually indistinguishable from the original.

 

I can't wait to get some feedback from another Shelby GT owner after they fit one of Heath's hoodscoops to their car! Sometime in the next 48 hours as my schedule permits I'll post everything that we've run into, and overcome, and how we did it. Cheers.

 

Chip

[VEGASTY]

NICE JOB, still sad warranty means nothing to ford and sai. no one should have to open their wallet to fix ford/sai issues, but sadly after so long we have no choice. will the rivet nuts be same width as these rivets? for black cars does it come unpainted? who plans an attempt of presenting the bill for this to sai via SMC along with a year of chain of events? or non-events , ok ok still venting

[SGT/SC#0471]

Chip-hows it going with your new scoop?

[AstroDan]

Chip-hows it going with your new scoop?

 

Yes and are you the Chip Beck that used to play on the PGA?

[JeffIsHereToo]

Chip-hows it going with your new scoop?

 

 

<< crickets >>

[SGT/SC#0471]

[cobrakalas427]

Yes and are you the Chip Beck that used to play on the PGA?

 

I don't think he is...I believe Chip Beck the PGA golfer lives in Lake Forest, Illinois.

[ChipBeck]

I don't think he is...I believe Chip Beck the PGA golfer lives in Lake Forest, Illinois.

 

Gentlemen,

 

My apologies for not updating last weekend. One of my best friends for the last 25 years died very unexpectedly a few days ago. So instead of writing a lengthy post detailing my hood scoop and hood construction findings I spent my time writing a eulogy for my good friend which I delivered on Saturday in Glendora, California. I flew home Saturday evening and didn't have it in me to write the post last weekend. I will try and post a complete update tomorrow but in short, the scoop on my Shelby GT is now functional and it looks great!! Heath has made a couple small revisions to the hood scoop and he will be making all further scoops with 25 rivets instead of the 21 on my car. The outside diameter of the rivet nuts is a bit larger than the diameter of the rivets that Shelby used to affix the standard scoop. So it will be easy to drill those same holes out slightly larger and install the rivet nuts. As Shelby GT's have now been built in five different color combinations, Heath will supply them in primer and owners will have to have them finished themselves. The cost to do this will be less than one third the cost of switching to the GTH hood and will preserve the signature original looks of the Shelby GT. For reasons I will detail when I have a bit more time these scoops must fit perfectly and mesh with the hood absolutely flat against the easily deflected aluminum hood. I must get to my office and again I apologize for my delay in posting more. I'll try and finish this tomorrow. All the best.

 

Chip

 

Oh yeah, one more thing, I am not Chip Beck the professional golfer. There is also an editorial writer and political cartoonist for the Washington Post named Chip Beck. Both of these individuals are acquaintances of mine. In aviation circles I am fairly well known as the airshow demonstration pilot for the Stoddard Hamilton Aircraft Company. I've traveled coast-to-coast for many years performing in air shows including Oshkosh and "Sun and Fun" Florida. Prior to that I flew on the Firebirds Aerobatic Team. For 25 years, up to 1999 I was the Pontiac-GMC Truck dealer in Scottsdale, Arizona. Today I am a dealer for the Chevron Oil Company.

 

[SGT/SC#0471]

Thanks for the update Chip, sorry to hear about your friend.

[Webba]

Chip my condolensces on your loss. I hope his family is doing OK as well as yours.

[stwsam]

Well, we all have our own approach. Over the past several months, I had my stripes removed and painted on. Then, after installing (having a really shop install) a whipple, I was bummed to find I could no longer have a strut tower brace. So, naively, I bought the frp brace claimed be going on the KR. This only depressed me further as it bangs the hood(yes, i realize everyone else already knew all the above, but someone has to keep trying to make a new wheel.)

 

I am fortunate to live near posies hot rods and customs. While not an inexpensive adventure, the car went in for a stb mod. Discussion lead to the hood scoop. They gave me my cake and ice cream. The scoop was reinstalled with the long riv screws, after, the scoop was made FUCTIONAL!!!. The did an absolutely wonderful job. some of pix can be viewed on their site.

 

http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/journa...y/shopprojects/

 

 

Posies project link

[khogle2]

Well, we all have our own approach. Over the past several months, I had my stripes removed and painted on. Then, after installing (having a really shop install) a whipple, I was bummed to find I could no longer have a strut tower brace. So, naively, I bought the frp brace claimed be going on the KR. This only depressed me further as it bangs the hood(yes, i realize everyone else already knew all the above, but someone has to keep trying to make a new wheel.)

 

I am fortunate to live near posies hot rods and customs. While not an inexpensive adventure, the car went in for a stb mod. Discussion lead to the hood scoop. They gave me my cake and ice cream. The scoop was reinstalled with the long riv screws, after, the scoop was made FUCTIONAL!!!. The did an absolutely wonderful job. some of pix can be viewed on their site.

 

http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/journa...y/shopprojects/

 

 

Posies project link

 

 

really nice, you have to be happy with this!!

[ChipBeck]

Gentlemen,

 

I finally have a bit of time to sit and write, so here goes. Before I get started, a disclaimer. I am not an engineer by education nor do I claim to be the end all authority on all things automotive. I am a long-term Shelby enthusiast, I do have some experience with the materials and construction methods involved in this fix, and I love projects like this. Other than writing these posts, and allowing my Shelby GT and hood scoop to be used as the guinea pig, I will have absolutely no financial involvement in this project nor will I profit in any way if Shelby GT owners choose to go with this fix. Putting this project together has been a blast and its own reward, kind of like building a ship in a bottle. So if somebody doesn't like something I've said, or if you think I've done something improperly, please keep in mind I'm a volunteer. This is my best crack at it.

 

Objectives--- To correct a most annoying cosmetic blemish-the warping and wavy soft plastic hood scoop with a permanent, proven fix while preserving the signature features and appearance of the Shelby GT. To allow an owner to make his hood scoop functional if he chooses to do so, or to block off the opening of the hood scoop with the factory black plastic piece if that is the owner's choice. Secondarily, to provide additional clearance over the Ford racing Whipple supercharger (when the scoop is functional) so that a modified strut tower brace can be used when a Whipple is installed on the car. When complete, to have a car that is visually indistinguishable from one with the original scoop.

 

Problems with the original scoop--- The original factory Shelby GT hood scoop was made with very soft plastic, was attached with eight large bolts in the middle of the scoop as well as two rivets drilled through the hood at the front edges of the scoop. It had a molded in brace about one third of the way back from the front opening running side to side in its construction. The plastic used softened considerably when heated and appears to expand and contract with changes in temperature. The top area of the original scoop between the opening at the front and the molded in brace collapses somewhat after a few heat cycles and created a dip. The back corners close to the windshield would curl up and pull away from the hood leaving a gap, again after a number of heat cycles.

 

The replacement scoop that was provided to me from Shelby was of a completely different design. The large bolts and the cross brace had been eliminated, it was supplied with a black foam rubber filler material intended to support the scoop and keep it from collapsing. It was to be installed using 25 rivets. Several members have had the hoods of their GTs buckled after a dealer install of this replacement hood scoop. This was the result of the rivet pinching the surface of the hood together with the hood bracing underneath. Even when installed properly, expansion and contraction of this new scoop appears to damage the underlying tape stripes causing them to bunch up at the rear edges of the scoop in a most unsightly manner.

 

Why did Shelby use such a soft plastic for the hood scoop?--- I believe they did this because the Mustang hood is made of aluminum and the surface of this aluminum hood is very easily deflected when you attach something to it. Any imperfection in the mating surface of the scoop cannot be corrected by cinching it down to the hood using either screws or rivets as the hood will partially deflect up toward the scoop creating an unsightly wave in the hood most visible from the driver's seat. Yes, I found this out the hard way. The bracing underneath the Mustang hood is also made of aluminum and at sporadic locations there is a dab of soft rubber filler material that remains soft permanently. This filler material is intended to keep the hood from vibrating against the bracing and/or from oil canning. The combination of the hood bracing not being mated to the top surface of the hood combined with that surface being made of thin aluminum makes attaching anything to it (without distorting the hood surface) a tricky proposition. A rigid hood scoop must mate to the curving convex aluminum surface perfectly flat all the way around and be screwed down with sufficient but not excessive force or the hood will distort. The level of precision required is certainly not superhuman but it does require some hand fitting and is apparently beyond the level of effort that would lend itself to mass production. The entire Shelby GT conversion is done in a single day. They certainly wouldn't want to spend a couple hours to precision fit a rigid hood scoop. So they went with a very soft pliable scoop that they believed would conform to the hood when they bolted it down, (now rivet down), without distorting the thin aluminum hood. The soft plastic hood scoop was a success in that it did not distort the hood. But the soft plastic is also its downfall in that it fails to keep its shape with temperature changes and becomes most unsightly in a relatively short period of time.

 

Why should I spend the money to fix it?--- Except for the damn hood scoop, I love everything about my Shelby GT Mustang. A joy to drive, it has been a flawless car without a single warranty repair. There has not been a Shelby Mustang converted in a Shelby facility endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and available for sale to the general public in 40 years. This car is part of my permanent collection which includes a Ford GT and an aluminum bodied Cobra. I never intend to sell it. But every time I drove it, I stared out across the scoop with the back edges curled up and the top caving in and it bugged me. Even though I haven't painted it yet, I enjoy driving the car a lot more when I look out across my perfectly smooth and precisely attached functional hood scoop. My fiancé thinks I'm nuts but my 15-year-old son understands perfectly.

 

Will Shelby Automobiles pay for this?--- No, nor do I expect them to. In time, Shelby may come up with another fix, but having spent days delving into this I don't believe anyone but an owner is going to spend the time and effort required to do what I want done to my car. I believe most owners will wait for a warantee fix but there is a hard-core group who, like me, want this niggling but aggravating problem fixed right and fixed now.

 

What will this cost and what will I get?--- Having discussed this at length with Heath LaHoste he will put these scoops into limited handbuilt and hand fitted (to an actual Mustang hood on a workbench) production and sell the scoops, rivet-nuts and bolts, a template and detailed instructions for $500 plus shipping. At least 25 people would have to purchase one to make setting up the assembly process and getting involved with this worthwhile for Heath. I think we can achieve that number easily. We have taken great pains over several days, making and correcting a number of mistakes, to come up with a consistent, reliable, and repeatable process to make installing one of these hood scoops relatively easy for a competent body man or owner with some expertise in this area. The scoop would be supplied in white primer and would have to be finished (painted) before installation by the purchaser. The location of the bracing underneath the hood in some of the areas where rivet nuts are installed requires that the instructions be read and followed for a good result. Once installed however, the vinyl-ester resin scoop will look perfect forever and will certainly outlast the buyer!

 

Why is it so expensive?--- Unlike an injection molded hard plastic hood scoop that can be punched out of a machine every few minutes, these scoops will be hand laid up by a licensed aviation A&P technician with final fitting done by hand as well. Each one will take over a day to manufacture.

 

How long should it take a body man to install the scoop once it's painted?--- About two hours.

 

Does cutting out the area underneath the hood scoop create any problems?--- No, I've already done it and it looks great.

 

Does “functional hood scoop” mean that air is channeled to the air cleaner?--- No, the hood scoop will work just like the scoop on the 1966 Shelby GT 350 that the Shelby GT is patterned after. The scoop will allow cold air into the engine compartment and will allow heat to escape from the engine compartment. But like the 1966 GT 350, this cold air is not forced in to the air cleaner. On a normally aspirated car, I think the only benefit to the open scoop would be that it looks great, it no longer looks like a phony scoop. There are two benefits to the functional scoop for those owners installing the Ford Racing Whipple supercharger. Superchargers lose efficiency when they get hot and performance degrades measurably. I experience this in my Ford GT on hot summer days. The functional scoop will blow cold air directly over that Whipple supercharger perhaps keeping it a bit cooler and therefore perhaps providing a slight performance benefit. A more tangible benefit for Whipple owners will be the ability to install a modified strut tower brace to replace the one you had to remove when you installed that supercharger thus regaining the chassis rigidity your car originally had.

 

Well, there you have it. This post has been lengthy and still I'm sure I've left many things out. If you have a question, please post it as someone else may have the same question and I will answer it in this thread.

 

Lastly, who wants one?

 

All the best,

Chip Beck

[mrhugger]

Gentlemen,

Regarding the hood scoop. I called my dealer yesterday who callled SAI to confirm the fix is to drill and install rivets . They are a bit nervous to perform as I am but something needs to happen. Scheduled for two weeks so will advise results. Dealer has an excellent body shop where this will be performed. Steve

[pottydr]

I will purchase one, there is nothing wrong with my scoop now, but I would like a back up so if it does warp in the future. Rick

[bruces]

ChipBeck my name is Bruce and I would like to obtain a scoop from you I have given up on SAI Please advise my email is bruce@gmcscuba.com phone is work 1-800-558-1811 I looked for your email but could not find probably best to email me as I am all over our plant. Job well done I have a 67 and 69 and 87 Shelby all of whcih have functional scoop again NICE job maybe SAI should contact you let me know time frame and total cost. I have an excellent body shop that painted my Shelby and did the second hood install on my Shelby Gt so far ok but I only hace 200 miles on car Thanks Bruce

[autoplay]

I'm definately interested! When wifey returns from Chicago this week,I'll ask her thoughts. I want a final fix,that never has a need to look back upon!

[07SGT0547]

Chip,

 

I'll play... But before I do, can you post some more pics??? Especially some of the "functional" aspect... THANKS!

 

Gregg

07SGT0547

[racephan]

I will buy one as well. email is racephan@verizon.net

[JeffIsHereToo]

I'm definately interested! When wifey returns from Chicago this week,I'll ask her thoughts. I want a final fix,that never has a need to look back upon!

 

She's in Chicago and didn't call!

 

Nice!

[TheKurgan]

This looks to be the best "fix" I've seen yet except I am not keen on drilling holes in the hood or anything like that. A couple other concerns I have are these:

 

1) Is the guy offerring some kind of warranty?

2) Will rain getting into the scoop opening cause any potential electrical or other unknown unknowns

3) Does it reduce or amplify hood vibration at speeds over 100mph? (If you haven't had your SGT over this speed then you might not of noticed the hood does wobble at high speeds). I'm not scared the hood will go flying off, but it does cause MAJOR distraction.

 

 

Thanks for your excellent documentation and research with this project.