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Paxton S/C


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The Paxton Novi 1200 that comes from SAI is intercooled has a serial number and the CS Shelby badging. Although they say it is 465 Hp, the canned tune in the diablo that it comes with is very mild. I took mine to a local performance shop and I am safely pushing 441 RWHp and 399 RWTq. Even using the more conservative 15% lost that is 500 crank horsepower. Son of GT and Cuda Fly are running better numbers then that.

 

Last I heard the Whipple does not have the Shelby Badging.

 

I am sure the Whipple owners will disagree but I would 100% say go with the Paxton. You will not be disappointed. Unless you are doing some serious drag racing you won't miss whatever if any difference in the low end. You get the Shelby/Paxton heritage and your strut tower brace. With the Whipple you will have a little rarity if you care. Not as many of those have been installed.

 

I have a book about supercharging that says to "accent" the personality of the motors powerband. The 4.6 is a screamer at the top to me. So I am thinking Paxton. I would be impressed with 500hp at the crank. I am a total sucker for the history too. Thats a big reason i got the SGT. I keep going back to the paxton but its a hard decision. Thanks for your input, it means alot...

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I HAVEN'T SEEN A 500 HORSE WHIPPLE YET...SO YOU GUYS SHOULD GET THAT OUT OF YOUR MIND. ALSO THEY ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR AUTOMATIC TRANS. YOU WILL NEED TO RE-PROGRAM...VOIDED WARRANTY WILL RESULT. WHEN YOU INSTALL THE TUNE FOR A WHIPPLE, IT WILL BE SO CONSERVATIVE, PROBABLY 425 HORSE, THEN YOU WILL TAKE IT TO A TUNER, AND BAM...WARRANTY IS VOID.....AND YES THE PAXTON NEEDS MORE RPM TO PRODUCE POWER, BUT IT PRODUCES IN THE MID-RANGE AND UP...NOT UPPER RPM'S AS SUGGESTED....DRIVE A PAXTON EQUIPPED CAR, IT HAS GOBS OF POWER, BUT DON'T COMPARE THE PAXTON 1200 WITH WHIPPLE, THAT IS FOR THE V-6 CARS, TRY THE PAXTON 2200 H.O. KIT.

LASTLY, OUR CARS CANNOT HANDLE 500 HORSE WITHOUT BEEFING UP THE ROTATING ASSY.

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Thanks for all the great responses everyone. Now if they will just get that thing certified for the 08 models. :)

Amen to your thought. I was in touch with Bud last week about mine but no news yet. I am ready to make a trip to Las Vegas just to visit my car. :hysterical: Jim

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I HAVEN'T SEEN A 500 HORSE WHIPPLE YET...SO YOU GUYS SHOULD GET THAT OUT OF YOUR MIND. ALSO THEY ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR AUTOMATIC TRANS. YOU WILL NEED TO RE-PROGRAM...VOIDED WARRANTY WILL RESULT. WHEN YOU INSTALL THE TUNE FOR A WHIPPLE, IT WILL BE SO CONSERVATIVE, PROBABLY 425 HORSE, THEN YOU WILL TAKE IT TO A TUNER, AND BAM...WARRANTY IS VOID.....AND YES THE PAXTON NEEDS MORE RPM TO PRODUCE POWER, BUT IT PRODUCES IN THE MID-RANGE AND UP...NOT UPPER RPM'S AS SUGGESTED....DRIVE A PAXTON EQUIPPED CAR, IT HAS GOBS OF POWER, BUT DON'T COMPARE THE PAXTON 1200 WITH WHIPPLE, THAT IS FOR THE V-6 CARS, TRY THE PAXTON 2200 H.O. KIT.

LASTLY, OUR CARS CANNOT HANDLE 500 HORSE WITHOUT BEEFING UP THE ROTATING ASSY.

 

The FRPP/Whipple HO (intercooled) S/C is listed at 500HP. Installed by a Ford or Ford Authorized dealer (which Shelby is) it still preserves the warranty.

 

It is true that the HO package is not allowed on the automatic. The auto tranny just isn't up to it. The automatic Paxton is supported though.

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I'll let you know what I find out in Vegas next week. Rumor has it that they are going to authorize an installer in Miami. Like you, I don't want to ship my car across country. Miami is about as close as I'm going to get for Central Florida. I prefer the Paxton, for heritage sake. I don't plan on racing the car to any great extent. More for bragging rights than anything else.

 

'Rumor has it that they are going to authorise an installer in Miami', umm, who do you have in mind? I lived down here for 32 years and there is no one down here qualified except Steeda to do anything! I know the other so called 'Mustang Shops', but for Shelby to use, no one.

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The Paxton does not interfere with the strut bar because it mounts to the right front side of the engine, not on top of the intake manifold.

 

Son, I forgot how to do it...

 

How do you list your 'Current Stable' with your cars listed at bottom of your every post?

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We're all a little right, and a little wrong here. Everyone have a beer in hand?

 

The FRPP/Whipple HO (intercooled) S/C is listed at 500HP. Installed by a Ford or Ford Authorized dealer (which Shelby is) it still preserves the warranty.

 

There are more than a few voices posting here that know something about the 4/6L-3V internals, and I am one of them. I've been inside the engine and I have been "hands-on" educated on this topic by Ford engineers in Livonia, MI., as well as major aftermarket players in the race car trade who know their stuff. I have built 2V, 3V and 4V engines making more than 650 brake HP., and even then there were concerns.

 

Bottom line...500 brake HP is just too much power for the OEM engine assembly. Longevity and durability are severly truncated and if you hammer the stock OEM assembly too hard, too often, the engine will surrender. If you wish, I'll write a "warranty" to this effect. Better yet, I'll write a "guarantee".

 

Moreover, there is nothing (other than the crankshaft) inside the stock OEM engine block that is stronger than tranny (auto or manual) internals, and surely not stronger than the rear end. All three components of the drivetrain are built to the same tolerances. In fact, if I had to pick the weakest link in the team, I'd pick the engine.

 

Take my advice on this...If you build 500 brake HP, best rebuild the drivetrain to handle the power. The SGT may be a fun car to drive, but the base Mustang GT it is built on, was never meant to handle such power. If it was, there wouldn't be such a large and active aftermarket, agreed?

 

BTW...I have to ask...Why this chase for HP? Is this a "guy thing"? Torque moves the car, not HP. Build torque, and the HP will follow. The difference between them is "faster" vs. "quicker"

 

Thus...This argument here, over which blower is best, is just wasted time on the internet. We will never agree, so, "to each his own" is the best way to look at things.

 

Regarding the factory warranty...Been there, did that. Window the block, pop a head gasket, melt a piston, suck a valve, what ever...If it's internal to the engine, tranny, or rear end and you have more than 8 PSI of boost sitting on top, you will be on your own.

 

Even if under 8 PSI, warranty coverage depends largely on your relationship with the repair facility. If they like you, you may do okay. If you have been a PITA to them, give up now. Won't matter if it's a centrifugal, or, positive displacement/twin screw blower, who made it, who installed it, or how much PSI. A blower is a blower, and it's now an owner modified car, and Ford doesn't have to warranty anything modified by the owner. No manfacturer of any product anywhere does, and this is an element of the Federal law, the Magnuson-Moss Act.

 

About 12 years ago, I owned a computer store. Small storefront, 1200 sq ft. on a strip mall, but I was doing okay. I offered and included a "warranty" on my finished product. However, when folks became computer "savy" because Best Buy said it was a "no-brainer", and began installing their own video cards, hard drives, internal modems and their software short-circuited, some customers came back to me for repair under their "warranty". My answer was no, and I ended up in Court.

 

I won.

 

So you see, this argument too can go on forever and likewise without agreement. Thus it is also wasted time.

 

Where does this leave Ford? It leaves Ford to make agreements with the aftermarket "mod shops" who help sell the base Mustang GT product. But, this is still a "maybe", and a discussion to be had later once engines start blowing. Then the "language" of the fine print has a different meaning.

 

I am a firm believer in some principles of life. 1) Anyone who says "trust me", don't. 2) Anyone who says "I know what I'm doing", they don't. 3) "Watch this!" Run! However, as similar to these principles as I sound here in this post, just read me?

 

I'm not leading you astray. Just ask the other "in the know" guys here?

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I have a book about supercharging that says to "accent" the personality of the motors powerband. The 4.6 is a screamer at the top to me. So I am thinking Paxton. I would be impressed with 500hp at the crank. I am a total sucker for the history too. Thats a big reason i got the SGT. I keep going back to the paxton but its a hard decision. Thanks for your input, it means alot...

Don't get your 411 from a book, get out there and talk to the engine builders? Books aren't bad mind you, if it's all you have access to. But, talking with the experts is the real deal. I have even paid them "per hour" to teach me and it was money well spent.

 

I agree that the 4.6L-3V is the best breathing engine Ford ever built and it will maximise the benefits of a centifugal blower. Hell...May be the best engine Ford ever built in it's stock configuration.

 

I won't get involved in discussions of "what wax" to use. Likewise, I am limited in my participation of "oil" topics, and I have no time for "hood scoop" stuff. Though I recognize it is important to some, it's overdone.

 

My corner is the base, stock, OEM engine and drivetrain This I know, but don't trust anyone who says "I know". Take what they say, and check it out?

 

The 4.6L-3V engine is the best ever, but it has it's limitations.

 

Respect the limitations.

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Mac, I agree with your above post.

 

If people are looking for a safe tune with a Whipple it will not develop 500 RWHP. Maybe with Methinjection as a kicker. But as Mac stated it has it's limitations. When you have half of a connecting rod with a burnt piston in your hand, it will be tough to submit a warranty claim. Granted there may be some freak engines out there. Some have failed on dyno's at lower HP some higer. An example would be the 04 Cobra motors. In stock form I have seen them differ by 30-40 HP on a dyno. Ever hear of the saying "don't by a car built on a Monday or Friday"? :lol: And sometimes it may be a sub contractors quality control who supplies parts.

 

For HP and Torque numbers approaching 500, install a forged bottom end. This will build in a safety net for the higher HP numbers. Crank HP and RWHP are 2 different animals. As far as stock HO Whipples, about 465 and up you may have clutch failure first. It has happened. Above that with stock internals etc. you might as well bet it all on BLACK! Now there are people out there who may have higher numbers for a dyno run. But I would bet the house that they had the tune fattened up just a tad prior to that car leaving a dyno facility. If they did not, I hope the tuner did not provide a parts faliure warranty.

 

I have yet to dyno my Whipple. I would guess somewhere around 425 RWHP. The canned tune is fat with fuel. I know, (sorry Mac) I smell it eveytime I start the car. I will probably have is leaned out a tad and check the timing and AF mixture but it will not suprise me to find what I just stated. That will come soon and I will post the dyno sheets.

 

Then there is dual turbo's......but that's a whole other topic and can of worms.

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Mac, I agree with your above post.

 

If people are looking for a safe tune with a Whipple it will not develop 500 RWHP. Maybe with Methinjection as a kicker. But as Mac stated it has it's limitations. When you have half of a connecting rod with a burnt piston in your hand, it will be tough to submit a warranty claim. Granted there may be some freak engines out there. Some have failed on dyno's at lower HP some higer. An example would be the 04 Cobra motors. In stock form I have seen them differ by 30-40 HP on a dyno. Ever hear of the saying "don't by a car built on a Monday or Friday"? :lol: And sometimes it may be a sub contractors quality control who supplies parts.

 

For HP and Torque numbers approaching 500, install a forged bottom end. This will build in a safety net for the higher HP numbers. Crank HP and RWHP are 2 different animals. As far as stock HO Whipples, about 465 and up you may have clutch failure first. It has happened. Above that with stock internals etc. you might as well bet it all on BLACK! Now there are people out there who may have higher numbers for a dyno run. But I would bet the house that they had the tune fattened up just a tad prior to that car leaving a dyno facility. If they did not, I hope the tuner did not provide a parts faliure warranty.

 

I have yet to dyno my Whipple. I would guess somewhere around 425 RWHP. The canned tune is fat with fuel. I know, (sorry Mac) I smell it eveytime I start the car. I will probably have is leaned out a tad and check the timing and AF mixture but it will not suprise me to find what I just stated. That will come soon and I will post the dyno sheets.

 

Then there is dual turbo's......but that's a whole other topic and can of worms.

 

 

Hi Roger.

I had mine dyno'd at Tasca back in November (500 HP Whipple, same set-up as yours). It pulled 427 RWHP (502 at the crank) with the stock tune from SAI. Yours should be about the same. This was done with about 350 miles on it. I plan on doing it again after about 3000 miles to see if the numbers go up. This car is awsome! Hope to hook up sometime. I will try to get to the next Mustangs Unlimited Show and definately want to go to the Tasca show. By the way, I will be at Tasca on Tuesday for my Gauge Pod install. Hope all is well with you.

 

Pete.

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Hi Roger.

I had mine dyno'd at Tasca back in November (500 HP Whipple, same set-up as yours). It pulled 427 RWHP (502 at the crank) with the stock tune from SAI. Yours should be about the same. This was done with about 350 miles on it. I plan on doing it again after about 3000 miles to see if the numbers go up. This car is awsome! Hope to hook up sometime. I will try to get to the next Mustangs Unlimited Show and definately want to go to the Tasca show. By the way, I will be at Tasca on Tuesday for my Gauge Pod install. Hope all is well with you.

 

Pete.

 

Pete, give me a call when you are in town and I'll take a ride over. I'm in that area daily.

 

I'll PM you my cell number.

 

Roger

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So Mac/LuLu:

 

If I was going to put a FRPP/Whipple on mine I'd cut out the pages from either the Shelby Parts or the For Racing catalogs.

 

I'm getting the Paxton on my GT automatic, and if I hang onto the 5-speed, it will be the Whipple kit.

 

Both are right.

 

The Paxton has a Shelby heritage.

 

The Whipple on a GT at about 400lb less weight with the same HP and the difference between the 5-speed and the 6-speed of the GT500 would be a really interesting meeting. I'm surprised noone has thought of this here.

 

Have a swell Sunday! It's supposed to be in the 70's tomorrow here, so we're going for a ride with the top down!

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The Whipple on a GT at about 400lb less weight with the same HP and the difference between the 5-speed and the 6-speed of the GT500 would be a really interesting meeting. I'm surprised noone has thought of this here.

 

:hysterical: It has been discussed before. You can find the entertaining threads with a little search time.

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I know this guy, Lidio, just as a reference point, and had quite a bit of 1/4 mile car work done by him in the past, he has no axe to grind and sells quite a few types of s/c. I have a vortech T trim on a fox body with 351W, it has 550 rear wheel hp. if i was adding to my shelby, it would be the whipple. look at this site just as a reference point. nice install and he pushes the limits of the mod on his own cars and does his own cals, just to keep you from blowing up. not trying to sell you anything, he is out of your area but still good info to look at. every little bit helps.

 

http://alternativeauto.com/prodserv/whipple-3valve46.html kit

 

http://alternativeauto.com/waterbox/07shopcar.html drag results

 

Thanks for the info!!!!

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I HAVEN'T SEEN A 500 HORSE WHIPPLE YET...SO YOU GUYS SHOULD GET THAT OUT OF YOUR MIND. ALSO THEY ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR AUTOMATIC TRANS. YOU WILL NEED TO RE-PROGRAM...VOIDED WARRANTY WILL RESULT. WHEN YOU INSTALL THE TUNE FOR A WHIPPLE, IT WILL BE SO CONSERVATIVE, PROBABLY 425 HORSE, THEN YOU WILL TAKE IT TO A TUNER, AND BAM...WARRANTY IS VOID.....AND YES THE PAXTON NEEDS MORE RPM TO PRODUCE POWER, BUT IT PRODUCES IN THE MID-RANGE AND UP...NOT UPPER RPM'S AS SUGGESTED....DRIVE A PAXTON EQUIPPED CAR, IT HAS GOBS OF POWER, BUT DON'T COMPARE THE PAXTON 1200 WITH WHIPPLE, THAT IS FOR THE V-6 CARS, TRY THE PAXTON 2200 H.O. KIT.

LASTLY, OUR CARS CANNOT HANDLE 500 HORSE WITHOUT BEEFING UP THE ROTATING ASSY.

 

The 1200 is the unit SAI installs.

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Roger my SGT has been shipped to Tasca Ford for the Whipple S/C W/inter-cooler. Should arrive Monday morning. Did you do anything different to the trany / 4.6 for the extra HP on your SGT with the Whipple.

 

First off.....Congrats! Your gonna love it! :happy feet:

 

Nothing has been done other than suspension mods at this time. The tune that comes with the Whipple is a safe tune. The stock configuration should be fine without any tweaking of the tune.

 

Roger

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Thanks again for all the great feedback. I should have asked this upfront but overlooked it: If you upgrade to the Paxton S/C, do you need to upgrade the brakes, wheels and tires? I like the looks of the 18 inch chrome bulllit rims on my 2008. Would it be safe to keep the original brakes, wheels and tires?

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Thanks again for all the great feedback. I should have asked this upfront but overlooked it: If you upgrade to the Paxton S/C, do you need to upgrade the brakes, wheels and tires? I like the looks of the 18 inch chrome bulllit rims on my 2008. Would it be safe to keep the original brakes, wheels and tires?

The answer my friend, lies in how you plan to drive the car.

 

IMHO...If your plan includes drag racing, prolly not. The factory brakes are stout enough for a safe stop after a single pass. With some cool down time between passes, you should be fine.

 

If your plan includes road racing/autocross, best to plan an upgrade, because the on-off-on-off will take it's toll on the factory brakes.

 

You do not have to buy new wheels and tires. Many here have simply upgraded rotors, pads and lines for a competitive edge while retaining the stock wheel/tire combination.

 

Happy motoring!

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On the east coast, Tasca in New England (RI I think) is the only current Shelby Authorized Mod Shop. However, you could just order the Shelby Paxton from Shelby Performance Parts and have it installed at a performance shop or maybe a dealer or even DYI if you are so inclined.

 

I called up Shelby in Vegas to ask them about installation costs on a Paxton and they told me that I could have it officially installed at Tampa Bay Shelby here in central Florida. So I called up TBS and talked to them and then visited their shop. They are an official authorized builder of Shelby CSX 4000 series Cobras. They have 9 of them in their shop, aluminum bodied and 427 motors. They are beautiful. Steve Naeger runs the place. Very impressive shop. They have 3 Mustang CS8 Shelby's, one with a Paxton that they let me drive. They are working with Shelby to be able to put the GT/SC stickers on the cars once they are modded and being able to register them with Shelby. They are expecting approval soon. I am probably going to go with them for my Paxton install after seeing their operation and driving the CS8. It was very impressive. They have already modded 3 other Shelby GTs and a number of GT500s. They are in direct contact with Carroll Shelby and have a complete line of Shelby products (wheels, billet accessories and other) that they can sell because they are an authorized Shelby Dealer. I didn't know anything about them until I called Shelby and talked with Steve in their parts group. Once you see the CSX Cobras and how they are building them you will be more than impressed. Steve and his guys are improving the installation of the Paxton and have already sent pictures and information that Shelby intends to incorporate in their installation package. I don't know if any of you other folks near the Tampa Bay area are interested but it would be worth a call.

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Don, did you talk price with Tampa Bay Shelby? Just curious about their total cost for the Paxton. While Tampa Bay isn't very close to NC it's better than RI or Texas. Your fortunate to have an authorized Shelby builder nearby. Good luck and keep us informed how it goes.

 

Jim

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Don, did you talk price with Tampa Bay Shelby? Just curious about their total cost for the Paxton. While Tampa Bay isn't very close to NC it's better than RI or Texas. Your fortunate to have an authorized Shelby builder nearby. Good luck and keep us informed how it goes.

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

 

Yes, Steve quoted me $6600 for the satin version and $6800 for the polished, installed. If you see the installation job they do you'll think your getting a bargain. These guys are all about attention to details. I guess that's why they are a CSX Cobra builder. When your paying $150K to $200K you expect the best. That's what has me so high on these guys. I was for the longest time going with the Kenne Bell. I still can get one installed for the same basic price structure but when you see the work that these guys are doing it's a no brainer to go with them. I'm just hoping for me and them that they get completely certified as a mod shop which is in the works. Don't worry Ill be posting a lot about how this install goes. I'm very stoked about the whole process. To tell you the truth, I was really wavering about even doing a supercharger install because I didn't want just any install shop doing my Shelby. Once I met with these guys and saw what they are doing and picked my jaw up off of the ground just being around real aluminum Cobras. I knew that I had found the people who are going to be doing the work for me.

 

Don

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Thanks for the info Don. Sounds great. "To tell you the truth, I was really wavering about even doing a supercharger install because I didn't want just any install shop doing my Shelby.". I know what you mean. I hate even taking mine in for an oil change or inspection. It's really important having a shop you can trust. Looking forward to the play by play.

 

Jim

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Thanks for the info!!!!

 

trivia info, just as a reference...the BF Goodrich drag radial ad that used to run in the mid 90's with the yellow FOX coupe in it, was Lidio's wifes car, he actually drove from Michigan to Bradenton for the opening NMRA spring break drag event with this car as advertising for his street/strip combinations at that time. most others trailered. my 93 FOX was 351W and Vortech T trim, 10.40 car and full street interior. This was 10 years ago, that was fast for the street then, probably common now. I can tell you, when somebody went for a ride in this car, it was memorable.

 

Lidio usually buys a couple of new shop cars (as his ads show) every two years or so and keep records of every combination built, especially the automatics. if it blows up, he puts it in the website, truth in advertising. Maurader, 4V, 3V combo's, whatever is hot in Fords at the time. just a reference, most of the folks here are states away. not trying to build a case for any one type of power adder.

 

$.02

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Does the Paxton have a noticeable whine?

 

It is more of a whistle but you don't hear it over the rushing air sound. Especially from the inside. The only time I noticed the supercharger sound is when I let off from high RPMs. When the car is idling you hear the meshing of the internal gears.

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It is more of a whistle but you don't hear it over the rushing air sound. Especially from the inside. The only time I noticed the supercharger sound is when I let off from high RPMs. When the car is idling you hear the meshing of the internal gears.

Hi ShelbyPilot, I've seen you on here a lot and have admired your SGTSC. I am seriously deciding on installing a supercharger but am having a hard time convincing myself that I want the Paxton. I have found a really good installer here in my area that I would have no problem going with. I just would like your opinion on the way your power feels and if it brings a smile to your face when you tickle the gas a tad. I have been leaning towards the twin screw for a while now until I visited Tampa Bay Shelby and saw the quality they put into the install. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Man this is a hard decision.

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