Paxton S/C

[RStangsOC]

My statement was directed to the folks who buy a supercharger kit and then exceed the recommended boost, or change the tune. Many here have bragged about that. Look at the FRP kits, get the spec sheet out. 6-8 PSI both on the Paxton and the Whipple.

 

 

My post was directed at the comment "Wake up! Every blower kit will blow your warranty, period."

[moabman]

I'm glad you brought up the MM & FF magazine. The current issue has a cover story on selecting a supercharger for your car. The article contains a graph of the torque curves and horsepower curves for a roots, twin screw, and centrifugal blower. Above 5000 rpm the centrifugal does slowly pull ahead. However, acceleration is all about area under the curve and because the two positive displacement blowers are so much higher over such a wide rpm range, they easily beat the centrifugals.

 

So, I'll grant you that if you launch at 4500 and have gears that keep you above 4500 all the way, you will benefit from the characteristics of the centrifugal. In other words, if you drag race your car and have modified it to do little else.

 

However, my car will never see a drag strip. I drive it on the street and if I do take it to a track, it will be a road course or a autocross and not a drag strip (not casting stones, just my preference). The addition of the Saleen added a smidge of understeer to my car but it is miniscule compared to the understeer of my friends Paxton equiped centrifugal. He can take care of it with a little throttle but that only works when he is not on the edge.

 

So, for those who are trying to decide which type to get and want to base your decision on performance, keep an estimate of how much of the time your car is reving above 5000 overall. Have someone watch your shifts on WOT and note what the rpm drops to. Then from a rolling start at 40 mph, stomp on it. Count the time it takes for the revs to reach 5000. You would be ahead during that interval with a PD blower. You probably won't be able to notice the centrifugals strength until you reach 5500.

 

One more thing that hasn't been brought up is adiabatic efficiency. What? an 11 psi boost is a 11 psi boost, right? Well, not quite. As "Lulu's" owner ( Mac, correct?) has pointed out it will take a centrifugal less hp from the engine to generate the 11 psi boost. However, that's not the whole story. What really matters to your engine is how much Oxygen you are feeding it. As it turns out, there is less oxygen in a set volume of air at 200 degrees and 11 psi above static than there is in the same volume and pressure at 150 degrees. Guess which blower heats the air the least to get it to 11 psi? Short answer is that the parasitic advantage of the centrifugal is partially offset by the adiabatic efficiency of the twin screw.

 

I know, everyone just wants an answer. If you wan't a centrifugal, get a centrifugal! Who cares what others think? If you like that Carroll has traditionally used Paxtons and that matters to you, get a Paxton centrifugal. To make it easy on you, Shelby also offers the Whipple. When I tallied up the things that matter to me, twin screws came out on top. I would have bought a Whipple because most of my add-ons are FRPP sourced. The Whipple has the FRPP logo on it BUT no one sold a kit that would match the high output version and a tune with my autoshifter.

 

Jim D'Amore with JDM Engineering has been putting over 600 rwhp through the stock 5 speed automatic transmission for over 2 years on the drag circuit and he sells a Saleen supercharger with components and a tune that would bring my stock 4.6 3V up to nearly 500 crank horsepower. I was sold. I could install it myself and I had faith that, with the tune, it wouldn't trash the 5R555 automatic. I have been well pleased and thats what really counts.

[shelbyguy470]

I am very happy with my Paxton. I got the polished one and it looks great under the hood.

 

On the way home from Vegas I went to pass two semis in a row. When I started passing them I was doing just over 60mph, by the time I passed the front on I was at 128!

 

The car is alot like stock when just running around town, until you hit about 2500rpm, then it kicks in.

 

I hope to get the "trick" tune on mine, but right now I am enjoying the heck out of it just the way it came.

 

IMHO - When you have it done by Shelby you get the stripes, Shelby supercharger and it will be revised in the Shelby registry by SAI to reflect the S/C.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Russ

[wmoore]

COOL PIC!!!

[Hot Pony]

++1...I'll be next in line behind you...need a Shelby Installer closer to GA!!! :happy feet:

 

I want mine to reflect correctly in the Shelby Registry...and the GT/SC on the stripes!!!!!

Rumor has it that they are going to announce an authorized installer in Miami within the next two weeks. I plan on going to Vegas next week and getting the scoop. I'll let this group know what I find out.

[Hot Pony]

I'm seriously thinking about going with the Kenne Bell Supercharger on my SGT. I mean if it's good enough for the Super Snake then it should be good enough for my little old SGT.

 

From what I've read and been told it is one of the best choices for the twin screw type SC. I can get it installed here in Tampa for around $5500 (non-intercooled) or $6500 (intercooled). Which isn't bad. I've gotten quotes from Ford for $7200 for the FRPP Whipple (intercooled). I'm just trying to decide which way to go. I like the idea of positive displacement over the centrifical blower, mainly for the low end which is more useful here in this area.

 

Now, if there was a South East installer that was Shelby approved, that might change my mind about the Paxton but I'm not a big fan of shipping it to Vegas just for a sticker. Now don't get me wrong, it is a cool sticker and I'm all for keeping it Shelby and resale and all that but I'm sure if I stick a Kenne Bell sticker under my Powerd By Ford people would get the idea that it's got something special under the hood.

I'll let you know what I find out in Vegas next week. Rumor has it that they are going to authorize an installer in Miami. Like you, I don't want to ship my car across country. Miami is about as close as I'm going to get for Central Florida. I prefer the Paxton, for heritage sake. I don't plan on racing the car to any great extent. More for bragging rights than anything else.

[07SHELBY GT]

The new Paxton Novi 2200 HO intercooled kit can be purchased self contained oiling.No more drilling the pan and tapping into the oil passages for pressure feed.Don't know how this wiil affect the performance over the long run as it seems that the self contained oil would get pretty warm.Just a thought for the home installer.Also the FRPP upgradded whipple which can make more power with less heat buil up is waiting CARB approval on the 08 version.If you go with the FRPP style see if you can get the upgraded version.The website for Whipple shows no corresponding FRPP #'s yet but has them for Whipple if you buy from them.The choices are confusing as hell!Like trying to buy a new computer,RESEARCH time eats you up but in the end you'll be sure to get what you at least think you want.

[LuLu]

Intercooling...Good point to consider.

 

A TS/PD blower's intercooler is positioned undeneath the blower, in the engine valley. The space here is limited, thus the efficiency of the intercooling process is likewise limited. Moreover, over time, the intercooler gets "heat soaked" and IATs suffer. Hot IATs mean less power from the combustion process.

 

With a centrifugal blower, you have many choices. Air to air, water to air, two core and three core heat exchangers, and so on. Yes, this stuff takes up space in the engine bay, but I have never seen any permanent changes employed. It's still all bolt-on. If you are seriously focused on fine tuning for maximum power and long term driving, choices are nice to have.

 

This discussion of "what's better" is endless. It will go on forever, and none of us are really wrong or really right. Some folks favor blue, others favor red. What is important, is that you have done your homework, and are comfortable with your selections. "Following the crowd" is the worst possible outcome, and supercharging/tuning is not an arena where one should follow the crowd.

 

Anytime you can bolt on 150 HP with minimal risk, all is well.

 

Happy motoring, gents!

[clark17357]

Well stated, Mac. Jim

[moabman]

Intercooling...Good point to consider.

 

A TS/PD blower's intercooler is positioned undeneath the blower, in the engine valley. The space here is limited, thus the efficiency of the intercooling process is likewise limited. Moreover, over time, the intercooler gets "heat soaked" and IATs suffer. Hot IATs mean less power from the combustion process....

 

The Saleen is inverted with the blower on the bottom. However, when I looked at it and the Whipple, I found that the IATS after multiple pulls were similar and both below the engine coolant temp i. e. on a 59 degree F day, after 5 pulls, both were recording IATs of around 105 -110 degrees F while the engine coolant was reading 187-190. Both were intercooled with a water air setup.

[Sharp GT500]

One more thing about the Paxton, you can't start the car if its 25 degrees or colder.

 

I emailed Paxton and verified this, they said " That is correct, for safety reason we do not recommend that you start the vehicle with the supercharger on it at temperatures below 25 degrees. The reason for that is that you may no have enough oil flowing into the supercharger. If that happens the supercharger will fail.

 

Thanks Micah"

 

That was a deal breaker for me.

[07SHELBY GT]

I wonder if that also applies to the new self contained unit that has it's own special oil in it.

[msouhlas]

Guess we'll need a block heater...

[Sharp GT500]

I wonder if that also applies to the new self contained unit that has it's own special oil in it.

 

I specifically asked about the unit that Shelby sells. I believe it is self contained. They may have other units that don't have this limitation but I don't know for sure.

[LuLu]

One more thing about the Paxton, you can't start the car if its 25 degrees or colder.

 

I emailed Paxton and verified this, they said " That is correct, for safety reason we do not recommend that you start the vehicle with the supercharger on it at temperatures below 25 degrees. The reason for that is that you may no have enough oil flowing into the supercharger. If that happens the supercharger will fail.

 

Thanks Micah"

 

That was a deal breaker for me.

Somehow...The logic here escapes me. Can anyone explain this to me?

 

I've owned a few centrifugal blowers in the past, a Novi 1200, a Procharger P1SC and two Vortechs, an S trim and a T trim. All of them were operated in the zero temps of Chicago's winter, and I never had a problem with inadequate blower head lubrication. The one main shaft seal I blew was from misalingment of the blower head in a new 8 rib setup (I forgot some spacers).

 

Thus...If the source for blower head lubrication is a tap off the oil pump at the filter, and this source is incapable of providing adequate lubrication to the blower head in 25 degree temps, logic dictates that it is also not providing adequate lubrication to the rest of the engine.

 

Maybe we should all stay home when the temps dip below the freeze line?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, right.

 

Sorry, gents, but I'm not buying this. Paxton must have had a serious warranty claim with a customer from the North Pole...

[clark17357]

I specifically asked about the unit that Shelby sells. I believe it is self contained. They may have other units that don't have this limitation but I don't know for sure.

I exchanged e-mails with Bud at SAI and he confirmed that they do not, yet, have the self contained units in stock. I am not sure if the self contained is better or not (nor do I have the expertise to know on the technical side of things). Jim

[csm198]

I have a Paxton. Live in California, mild temps. It friggin screams. All I can say is if u can afford it get one, you will not regret it. Whipple or paxton. They are equally correct for this car model.

I have the ultimate sleeper, no SC/GT sticker on this car. The only mention of the shelby installed S/C is the cool (CS Supercharged) trunk lock cover that is available in the catalog. Enjoy speed, old school style now, while there is still gas available at 4 bucks a gallon!!!!

[SGT/SC#0471]

I am decision impared. Please help. The SAI paxton is a HO version putting out 465 hp? And the whipple puts out 500hp? Does the whipple have a serial number from SAI or a CS logo on it? The whipple still gets the regestry and the sticker? Thanks guys I am ssoooo on the fence about this. Oh yeah one more... Has anyone with the whipple notice poorer handling without the brace?

 

 

edit: are both of these intercooled?

[69dejavue]

McCoy, based only on what I have read......The Whipple has better low end response the Paxton better top end response. The Paxton has a Shelby logo and a serial number that is unique to Shelby. Paxton and Shelby go back over 40 years together so there is a sentimenatal heritage also. Since our cars are somewhat retro I hope for the Paxton someday. You mentioned the handling without the brace with the whipple. But the whipple sits directly on top of the motor. The Paxton, and intercooler, sit in front of the motor increasing front end weight bias and I am curious if there is any decrease in handling.

[LuLu]

You mentioned the handling without the brace with the whipple. But the whipple sits directly on top of the motor. The Paxton, and intercooler, sit in front of the motor increasing front end weight bias and I am curious if there is any decrease in handling.

Having had a centrifugal blower on a variety of automobiles in the past, I suggest that you will not notice any negative handling issues post install. Pound for pound, the kits weigh about the same. The total weight of the hardware adds up, yes, but it doesn't make the car "nose heavy". If you're really picky about stuff, after the install is complete, get a front end alignment.

 

IMHO...The strut tower brace is an important suspension element one should reconsider disposing of. You may say "I don't feel any difference without it", but down the road you may expect some problems if you are heavy into the twisties. But, this is just my .02C, gents.

 

Happy motoring.

[Sharp GT500]

Somehow...The logic here escapes me. Can anyone explain this to me?

 

I've owned a few centrifugal blowers in the past, a Novi 1200, a Procharger P1SC and two Vortechs, an S trim and a T trim. All of them were operated in the zero temps of Chicago's winter, and I never had a problem with inadequate blower head lubrication. The one main shaft seal I blew was from misalingment of the blower head in a new 8 rib setup (I forgot some spacers).

 

Thus...If the source for blower head lubrication is a tap off the oil pump at the filter, and this source is incapable of providing adequate lubrication to the blower head in 25 degree temps, logic dictates that it is also not providing adequate lubrication to the rest of the engine.

 

Maybe we should all stay home when the temps dip below the freeze line?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, right.

 

Sorry, gents, but I'm not buying this. Paxton must have had a serious warranty claim with a customer from the North Pole...

 

I agree with your feelings on this LuLu. When it was first posted on the old sight I was very surprised. That's why I contacted Paxton directly about this. The whole supercharger thing has been a roller coaster ride for me. Every time I come up with a game plan for doing it, something derails it.

[SGT/SC#0471]

I agree with your feelings on this LuLu. When it was first posted on the old sight I was very surprised. That's why I contacted Paxton directly about this. The whole supercharger thing has been a roller coaster ride for me. Every time I come up with a game plan for doing it, something derails it.

 

+1 modern living...haha

[ShelbyPilot]

I am decision impared. Please help. The SAI paxton is a HO version putting out 465 hp? And the whipple puts out 500hp? Does the whipple have a serial number from SAI or a CS logo on it? The whipple still gets the regestry and the sticker? Thanks guys I am ssoooo on the fence about this. Oh yeah one more... Has anyone with the whipple notice poorer handling without the brace?

 

 

edit: are both of these intercooled?

 

The Paxton Novi 1200 that comes from SAI is intercooled has a serial number and the CS Shelby badging. Although they say it is 465 Hp, the canned tune in the diablo that it comes with is very mild. I took mine to a local performance shop and I am safely pushing 441 RWHp and 399 RWTq. Even using the more conservative 15% lost that is 500 crank horsepower. Son of GT and Cuda Fly are running better numbers then that.

 

Last I heard the Whipple does not have the Shelby Badging.

 

I am sure the Whipple owners will disagree but I would 100% say go with the Paxton. You will not be disappointed. Unless you are doing some serious drag racing you won't miss whatever if any difference in the low end. You get the Shelby/Paxton heritage and your strut tower brace. With the Whipple you will have a little rarity if you care. Not as many of those have been installed.

[khogle2]

I am decision impared. Please help. The SAI paxton is a HO version putting out 465 hp? And the whipple puts out 500hp? Does the whipple have a serial number from SAI or a CS logo on it? The whipple still gets the regestry and the sticker? Thanks guys I am ssoooo on the fence about this. Oh yeah one more... Has anyone with the whipple notice poorer handling without the brace?

 

 

edit: are both of these intercooled?

 

 

I know this guy, Lidio, just as a reference point, and had quite a bit of 1/4 mile car work done by him in the past, he has no axe to grind and sells quite a few types of s/c. I have a vortech T trim on a fox body with 351W, it has 550 rear wheel hp. if i was adding to my shelby, it would be the whipple. look at this site just as a reference point. nice install and he pushes the limits of the mod on his own cars and does his own cals, just to keep you from blowing up. not trying to sell you anything, he is out of your area but still good info to look at. every little bit helps.

 

http://alternativeauto.com/prodserv/whipple-3valve46.html kit

 

http://alternativeauto.com/waterbox/07shopcar.html drag results

[StrayShadow]

I want to have the SC mod done ... but I am on the east coast. Where would I go to get these mod's

done? I have been told to buy the parts from Shelby Inc. and carry them to the local Ford dealer and

they would install the mod's. Is that accurate? What about the warranty? What mod's void the warranty?

Any help would be appreciated!

 

 

Kevin

07SGT2591

[khogle2]

I want to have the SC mod done ... but I am on the east coast. Where would I go to get these mod's

done? I have been told to buy the parts from Shelby Inc. and carry them to the local Ford dealer and

they would install the mod's. Is that accurate? What about the warranty? What mod's void the warranty?

Any help would be appreciated!

 

 

Kevin

07SGT2591

 

 

somebody can jump in here, but i think new jersey is the only other place (unless you drive to texas or nevada)

[ShelbyPilot]

On the east coast, Tasca in New England (RI I think) is the only current Shelby Authorized Mod Shop. However, you could just order the Shelby Paxton from Shelby Performance Parts and have it installed at a performance shop or maybe a dealer or even DYI if you are so inclined.

[twobjshelbys]

On the east coast, Tasca in New England (RI I think) is the only current Shelby Authorized Mod Shop. However, you could just order the Shelby Paxton from Shelby Performance Parts and have it installed at a performance shop or maybe a dealer or even DYI if you are so inclined.

 

See the little GT/SC on the strip (also ShelbyPilot's avatar)? You get that only if you get a Shelby Authorized Mod Shop to do the installation. Also, the mod is noted in the registry. If you don't care about that you can have it installed anywhere [and you have a stealthmobile].

[SHELBYCS6]

I have the Shelby/Paxton Novi 1200 on my little V6 and with a few tweaks it has more than doubled my factory Hp.

 

I love it...the sound, the punch, the rapid acceleration on the HWY.......with 410:1 gears you get crazy acceleration around 80 to 100 mph...

 

The original Diablo....toss it and get the SCT......way better performance....

 

DaSilva Racing couldn't even get the 350 hp SAI promised it was like 330 hp.....

New tuner, re-calibration....380hp within the hour.

 

I downsized the pulley two sizes and it won't be back on the dyno till next week but it should be around 430 hp when bone stock was rated 210 hp.

 

If you are worried about warranty don't install anything but a Ford installed factory unit.

 

Even though the SVT dealer installed all my goodies...my warranty left when I did....

 

Factory warranty or not...if you blow them up.....your on your own....

[msouhlas]

See the little GT/SC on the strip (also ShelbyPilot's avatar)? You get that only if you get a Shelby Authorized Mod Shop to do the installation. Also, the mod is noted in the registry. If you don't care about that you can have it installed anywhere [and you have a stealthmobile].

 

 

I`ve done mechanic work and have been amateur racing for more than 30 years, but I would still have a shop that has done several-to-many of these do my upgrade because you really don`t want your first one to be on be on own car.``D/L the installation instructions -- it`s pretty involved. Even though I m qualified to do the job, its probably better left to a pro with this actual experience...

 

...not to mention the importance of the 3/36 warranty and the registry upgrade...