68fastback Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 such as ... A very important factor you GT500 guys(love ya btw) keep forgetting is weight. The 2 cars will never be equal in suspension, acceleration, etc due to that one factor. 2 cars with the same HP and one weighs 400 pounds less...guess which one takes the checkered flag...guess which one goes through the corners better? The W/D diff is only a bit more than 1% between the SGT and GT500. The power of the latter WAY more than makes up for that. Run the nums thru a T/S/D calculator and you'll see just how huge the diff is. A car that weights 3620 and has 319crankHP will reach 98mph in the 1/4mi. If it had 500HP, you could add over 2,000 additional pounds before it falls under that trap speed! Don't believe me? Plug the nums in the calculator. Weight is not such a biggie, it's balance. The SGT/SC has more weight on the front than the SGT but is still better balanced than the GT500, which is why it will definately give it run (and maybe beat it) but the real reason is the HP on the straights -- but, on a racecourse (actually racing), it's brakes will be toast by the third lap -- about when the coolant temp will start get marginal. There's no magic -- it's physics. The iron block only adds 86 lbs to the GT500, the other 204lbs is all in heavy-duty components: HD brakes, HD cooling, HD six-speed, HD I.C., HD H..E, etc. The SGT's 319 HP at it's weight just isn't going to make up for that even with it's nice handling -- not even in the the first 3 laps. I think they're really nice rides -- they look good and run good but are what they are. Btw, if you think the GT500 is a porker, it's svelt compared to the Challenger (and Camaro), which will tip the scales at over 4,150lbs with it's big dinosaur motor -- that's not really a hemi anyway (the DOHC modular is more a hemi) -- but people will believe what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamRide Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 The W/D diff is only a bit more than 1% between the SGT and GT500. The power of the latter WAY more than makes up for that. Run the nums thru a T/S/D calculator and you'll see just how huge the diff is. A car that weights 3620 and has 319crankHP will reach 98mph in the 1/4mi. If it had 500HP, you could add over 2,000 additional pounds before it falls under that trap speed! Don't believe me? Plug the nums in the calculator. Weight is not such a biggie, it's balance. The SGT/SC has more weight on the front than the SGT but is still better balanced than the GT500, which is why it will definately give it run (and maybe beat it) but the real reason is the HP on the straights -- but, on a racecourse (actually racing), it's brakes will be toast by the third lap -- about when the coolant temp will start get marginal. There's no magic -- it's physics. The iron block only adds 86 lbs to the GT500, the other 204lbs is all in heavy-duty components: HD brakes, HD cooling, HD six-speed, HD I.C., HD H..E, etc. The SGT's 319 HP at it's weight just isn't going to make up for that even with it's nice handling -- not even in the the first 3 laps. I think they're really nice rides -- they look good and run good but are what they are. Btw, if you think the GT500 is a porker, it's svelt compared to the Challenger (and Camaro), which will tip the scales at over 4,150lbs with it's big dinosaur motor -- that's not really a hemi anyway (the DOHC modular is more a hemi) -- but people will believe what they want. Very valid points i would have to say but, you got me with that word you used there....... svelt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 You need a Swedish master to settle this crap, and I was mostly a European race car lover for many years -1) GT/SC, GT500, SGT drag race 2) GT/SC, SGT, GT500 road course Sorry to all who thought differently! Drag: SS725, SS605, GT500KR, GT500, SGT/SC, Terlingua-II-V6, SGT, GT, V6, Pinto The SGT-SC's centrfugal just doesn't have the torque of the 500's fixed-disp S/C -- it's area under the curve that matters, not peak values. On a road course the SGT/SC and GT500 (dead stock) would be close, I think. Anyhow, I'm done on this... if you do the calcs I think you'll see what I'm saying. Fortunately, they're all grat rides and we can all be proud to own *any* of them (well, except the Pinto, maybe ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Very valid points i would have to say but, you got me with that word you used there....... svelt? Ooops, my bad... make that svelte: (Merriam-Webster) svelte: adj: slender, lithe b: having clean lines : sleek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamRide Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Ooops, my bad... make that svelte: (Merriam-Webster) svelte: adj: slender, lithe b: having clean lines : sleek Thanks........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 The W/D diff is only a bit more than 1% between the SGT and GT500. The power of the latter WAY more than makes up for that. Run the nums thru a T/S/D calculator and you'll see just how huge the diff is. A car that weights 3620 and has 319crankHP will reach 98mph in the 1/4mi. I guess Motor Trend's calculator was wrong since there result was 102.5 in a 1/4 mile for a stock Shelby GT. Well actually it had "HD" 14" front and rear rotors with six piston caliper brakes and 20" wheels. Did that add weight. " Pony Express Motor Trend April 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Drag: SS725, SS605, GT500KR, GT500, SGT/SC, Terlingua-II-V6, SGT, GT, V6, Pinto The SGT-SC's centrfugal just doesn't have the torque of the 500's fixed-disp S/C -- it's area under the curve that matters, not peak values. On a road course the SGT/SC and GT500 (dead stock) would be close, I think. Ummm, some of the Shelby GT/SC are Whipples. What about the 2007 40th Anniversary GT500, CS8 and CS6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 "The competition was great. Sam Strano in his Shelby GT not only took 1st in FS but also 1st in PAX across 1000+ competitors" Note this was NOT a GT500, but a SGT. So any PNW GT500 owners who want to compare times at Bremerton this year....Who knows maybe I will want a GT500, in addition to my SGT, maybe not.....http://www.codekeep.com/main/autocross/index.html The following is a quote from the "champ" answering a guy in a forum, who wanted to know if he should buy a sgt: Should you? Don't know.... Do you want to? There is nothing a Shelby GT can do that a Mustang GT can't (for less money). I know this is the Shelby section--and I autocross one and not a Mustang GT because the way our classing works I can't upgrade a Mustang GT and run the same class as I can the Shelby. That's why we have the car. Maybe some folks like the looks of it better with the stripes. Maybe it's the fact you can own a real live, registered and documented Shelby. All good reasons, and ones to be considered. But I'll tell you right now I can make a Mustang GT handle better for less money (or make it the same for less money if you go with all FRPP stuff). Do I hate them? No. Am I a realist? Yep. Nobody I know who has an SGT regrets it. I don't regret buying myself a "regular" GT for my use--but I race the Shelby (and win too... Shelby GT #450. 2007 SCCA National Champion). _____________________________ SCCA National Champion (x4) SCCA ProSolo Champion (x3) Borrower: '07 Shelby GT #450 Owner: '07 Mustang GT--Koni equipped note that his "factory stock" car is not a GT500, is it even in the same class?.......anybody know the answer? I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 BTW Drag race= much cooler at 9.86 would'nt you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboy Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'm not selling anything. Just stating factual information. here's factual information. in august 07 my SGT sticker was priced at $44k. i bought it for $38k they had an 07 GT500 convertable for $65k sticker price that same day. obviously a huge ADM markup on the GT500 at that time. for that reason i chose the SGT. the GT500 is less than 200HP and only 1 maybe 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 than a non supercharged SGT. now i could have waited till the ADM dropped on the GT500, but who knew how long that was goin to be. and i didnt know if there was goin to be any GT500s after 07. since the GT500 is selling $20k less than they were last year i would be kickin myself in the a$$ HARD if i bought one last year. but with the SGT selling only $6k less now than what " I " paid for in august its a pretty good deal. :jackinbox: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurgan Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 The W/D diff is only a bit more than 1% between the SGT and GT500. The power of the latter WAY more than makes up for that. Run the nums thru a T/S/D calculator and you'll see just how huge the diff is. A car that weights 3620 and has 319crankHP will reach 98mph in the 1/4mi. If it had 500HP, you could add over 2,000 additional pounds before it falls under that trap speed! Don't believe me? Plug the nums in the calculator. Weight is not such a biggie, it's balance. The SGT/SC has more weight on the front than the SGT but is still better balanced than the GT500, which is why it will definately give it run (and maybe beat it) but the real reason is the HP on the straights -- but, on a racecourse (actually racing), it's brakes will be toast by the third lap -- about when the coolant temp will start get marginal. There's no magic -- it's physics. The iron block only adds 86 lbs to the GT500, the other 204lbs is all in heavy-duty components: HD brakes, HD cooling, HD six-speed, HD I.C., HD H..E, etc. The SGT's 319 HP at it's weight just isn't going to make up for that even with it's nice handling -- not even in the the first 3 laps. I think they're really nice rides -- they look good and run good but are what they are. Btw, if you think the GT500 is a porker, it's svelt compared to the Challenger (and Camaro), which will tip the scales at over 4,150lbs with it's big dinosaur motor -- that's not really a hemi anyway (the DOHC modular is more a hemi) -- but people will believe what they want. The braking problem is easily taken care of with different pads on the road course. It's not a matter of believing you or not. I've just seen the numbers and the facts. A GT/SC with the HO whipple will SMOKE(not beat) a stock GT500 on the drag strip. 1/4 mile times for a GT500 are in the mid 12's and for a GT/SC it's low 11's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Drag: SS725, SS605, GT500KR, GT500, SGT/SC, Terlingua-II-V6, SGT, GT, V6, Pinto The SGT-SC's centrfugal just doesn't have the torque of the 500's fixed-disp S/C -- it's area under the curve that matters, not peak values. On a road course the SGT/SC and GT500 (dead stock) would be close, I think. Anyhow, I'm done on this... if you do the calcs I think you'll see what I'm saying. Fortunately, they're all grat rides and we can all be proud to own *any* of them (well, except the Pinto, maybe ;-) I'll agree that if you own *ANY* Shelby you should be proud. I love my SGT and I can't keep the crowds off of it- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 "The competition was great. Sam Strano in his Shelby GT not only took 1st in FS but also 1st in PAX across 1000+ competitors" Note this was NOT a GT500, but a SGT. In the spirit of fairness, the GT500 and Shelby GT are not in the same class for autocross. I believe the GT500 is in AS and would compete with the likes of Vettes and all wheel drive Evolutions. Where the GT500 would get spanked. At autocross events and especially Nationals the serious competitors really think about having the overdog. I don't think autocross is a true representation of what a car is capable of. I remember one Sunday where the Civics had the best times of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 In the spirit of fairness, the GT500 and Shelby GT are not in the same class for autocross. I believe the GT500 is in AS and would compete with the likes of Vettes and all wheel drive Evolutions. Where the GT500 would get spanked. At autocross events and especially Nationals the serious competitors really think about having the overdog. I don't think autocross is a true representation of what a car is capable of. I remember one Sunday where the Civics had the best times of the day. Thanks for clarifying that. I was wondering about the classes, i have my first stab at it April 5th, I can't wait! To add to the mix, don't see many GT500's driving around at all.....cool cars as they are..........I also wonder how many will be driven into trees, the mid-life first time harley guys made the insurance rates go up alot. And it happens to them more than you might think. I hope the buyers of the Shelby's are more experienced in driving them, they are alot of car. Very cool, burnouts all around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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