Shelby GT500 Upgrade?

[64peter]

I would not consider trading in my SGT/SC for a GT500 an "upgrade".

[TheKurgan]

Facts have been presented in this case. eBay is a CLEAR indication of how much a car is selling for. Nothing more really needs to be said.

 

Peace brothers!

[RogerS]

All right, I will wade into the chopy waters of this debate.

 

What do you consider substained performance levels and real track enviroment. My Shelby GT/SC held up very well the entire weekend of the Birthday Bash. I ran every minute of every session of my run group on the track. The engine never missed a beat, felt tired or over heated. Are we talking about real racing with passing and the such. How many people are doing that with either car on this forum.

 

A warmed over Mustang GT with modifications that aren't as substantial as the GT500 factory pieces....The suspension is completely changed. Save the beefed up parts (like the A-arms) of the GT500 required to handle the extra weight of the engine. All of the body panels are installed by the at the Ford factory.

 

I'll agree the Shelby GT stock brakes leave a bit on the tabel. Do a little work with aftermarket rotors, pads and brake lines on the Shelby GT and you will have brakes that handle the Shelby GTs less mass as well as the GT500s Brembos. Spend a little more coin on a complete brake package and the Shelby GT will outbreak the GT500.

 

This debate will go on forever. As has been said, they are both great cars that fulfill the desires and needs of each group of enthusiast. Please go out and enjoy your cars without trying to tear down the other one.

 

I agree. My SGT never had an issue all weekend long either. And I have a video to prove it. That 650 HP GT500 just could not pass me.

[ShelbyDude]

Facts have been presented in this case. eBay is a CLEAR indication of how much a car is selling for. Nothing more really needs to be said.

 

Peace brothers!

 

 

Well if you look at the completed listings on ebay then the clear indicator shows over 90% of the GT500's are not selling at all! And of the very few that did sell, the selling prices range from below MSRP to slightly over. Many that haven't sold did not even reach MSRP in bid amounts.

 

In fact, there are more GT500's posted here recently being offered at MSRP than there have been GT500's that actually sold on ebay based on current completed listings. Go look them up.

 

The only time ebay is a good indicator is when a large percentage of a particular is actually selling on ebay. Such as prior to when the SGT and GT500 were being offered on ebay before the cars were out and right after they started showing up at dealers. At that time they were selling strong on ebay and for crazy money. But now over 90% do not sell at all which means the market has really died on these. Look at how long some of the deals posted here at MSRP sit for days before someone jumps on it.

 

Aside from someone paying maybe $1K - $2K over to get one locally where they would pay that much to get one shipped from a distance, who in their right mind would pay more over MSRP right now??? There are to many being had and popping up right now being offered at MSRP. So much for your indicator on ebay based on inflated pricing that never sells on ebay! You are 18 months late to that party.

[dave c]

And as for the brightlight who says a 210HP V6 that smoked the GT500 at CS' 85th ...I'll have some of what you're smoking :shades:

First of all, I didn't say the V-6 "smoked" the GT500. In the dim lit world of bench top racing of course a GT500 would not lose to a V-6, but in the real world the term would be "run what you brung". My point was 500 hp doesn't make you a better driver. I don't know what you been smokin', but it happened, deal with it. If I'm not mistaken, Kaylen1521, was the driver of the V-6. So perhaps you could PM him. Not looking to get in a pissing match with you, my friend, just stating what happened.

Dave

[ShelbyDude]

I agree. My SGT never had an issue all weekend long either. And I have a video to prove it. That 650 HP GT500 just could not pass me.

 

 

That 650 HP GT500 just could not pass me.

 

 

Road hog!!!

[ShelbyDude]

First of all, I didn't say the V-6 "smoked" the GT500. In the dim lit world of bench top racing of course a GT500 would not lose to a V-6, but in the real world the term would be "run what you brung". My point was 500 hp doesn't make you a better driver. I don't know what you been smokin', but it happened, deal with it. If I'm not mistaken, Kaylen1521, was the driver of the V-6. So perhaps you could PM him. Not looking to get in a pissing match with you, my friend, just stating what happened.

Dave

 

 

My point was 500 hp doesn't make you a better driver.

 

Exactly!

 

Heck, a good driver in a Focus could beat a performance car on a track if the driver of the performance car doesn't know how to drive on a track course.

[TheKurgan]

Think we got ourselves a little case of big brother jealousy. Time to bring those 500 snouts a little closer to the ground in more than one way

[Son of GT]

I have both cars and if you're able to pull it off, own both of them. The debate is really moot because both cars have both negitive and postive qualties coming out of the gate, but do not be mistaken, they are both S H E L B Y cars.

 

With respect to the track event during Carroll's bash, let's keep in mind that it was not a competitive event, driver's were classed by their previous track driving experience and passing was only allowed on the front straightaway. And with complete respect to Kaylan's driving skills, I just can't see how a rental car could muster enough velocity within the 1/8 mile straight to pass a GT500 unless the GT500 driver was instructed to move to the right and allow Kaylan to pass.

 

I totally agree with Shelby Pilot's comment that everyone should enjoy what they own without shitting on what other's own.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfr2CgIPhg

 

 

 

[dave c]

I have both cars and if you're able to pull it off, own both of them. The debate is really moot because both cars have both negitive and postive qualties coming out of the gate, but do not be mistaken, they are both S H E L B Y cars.

 

With respect to the track event during Carroll's bash, let's keep in mind that it was not a competitive event, driver's were classed by their previous track driving experience and passing was only allowed on the front straightaway. And with complete respect to Kaylan's driving skills, I just can't see how a rental car could muster enough velocity within the 1/8 mile straight to pass a GT500 unless the GT500 driver was instructed to move to the right and allow Kaylan to pass.

 

I totally agree with Shelby Pilot's comment that everyone should enjoy what they own without shitting on what other's own.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfr2CgIPhg

 

 

It was on the drag strip.

And yes, everybody was surprised, but it did happen.

[Son of GT]

It was on the drag strip.

And yes, everybody was surprised, but it did happen.

Oh, the drag strip? That makes more sense. I thought that it was the road course.

[TheKurgan]

Oh, the drag strip? That makes more sense. I thought that it was the road course.

 

 

A V6 makes more sense winning on the drag strip???? I don't think so LOL

[shel-b001]

We need burnout boy Kaylan here to verify this. Keep in mind he does alot of drag racing.

[sudden]

The GT500 needs to go on Genny Craig or should we just call it FAT BOY. Cast Iron block is a good boat anchor. Oh ya, Im sorry ,for the extra 350 bucks you also get real Shelby door sills to replace the svt ones. That is nice aint it. Ill keep my Sgt. The ride height on the 500 is cool for off road racing too! Sudden.

[mywickedshelby]

[ken07gt500]

They make devises that will help with your penis envy.

 

 

Dont forget, REAL CARS DONT HAVE AUTOMATICS.........

[07SGT4578]

damn.....i was starting to worry, good thing my sgt is a stick.

[68fastback]

First of all, I didn't say the V-6 "smoked" the GT500. In the dim lit world of bench top racing of course a GT500 would not lose to a V-6, but in the real world the term would be "run what you brung". My point was 500 hp doesn't make you a better driver. I don't know what you been smokin', but it happened, deal with it. If I'm not mistaken, Kaylen1521, was the driver of the V-6. So perhaps you could PM him. Not looking to get in a pissing match with you, my friend, just stating what happened.

Dave

 

No pissing contest here... I like all the mustangs.

 

Paul (K1521) must have strapped some medicine on that V6 ...maybe the GT500 didn't notice he was running him ;-)

 

I do believe, car-for-car, the pecking order on a track (actual competition, not the 85th funday) is GT500, GT/SC, SGT, GT, V6. Does anyone seriously dispute that?

 

I don't doubt that a stock S-GT will slightly outhandle a dead stock GT500 -- after all the S-GT is a modded GT and FRp handling pack and it's better balance will show. But that's within the limits of the S-GT's output. You'd have to find a very twisty, very short, very unusual track for the GT500's power to not make the difference around any reasonable track overall. If you think otherwise it might be worth driving one.

 

I've had a lot of seat miles in a 2001 Cobra -- fully aluminum drivetrain, IRS, performance pieces that bring it up to 318HP (at the wheels), so it has abut 15% more HP than the S-GT and it's IRS makes a big dif too, and there is NO WAY that Cobra will lead a GT500 around any track I know of.

 

The S-GT is a really sweet ride for what it is. I don't mean to look like I'm putting it down in any way. The GT is solid base and the FRP upgrades do make a sizeable difference, but in the hands of drivers of comparable skills who are actually competing, the pecking order is clear to me -- and, the longer the track, the longer distances between them.

 

That was my point. I sincerely hope I didn't offend any S-GT[/sC] (or V6) owners ...we're all a family here. I was merely trying to exaplin that the cars are engineered to differing capabilities.

 

Btw, I'd drive a stock GT500 against Parnelli Jones in stock S-GT (or a V6 <lol>) at Watkins Glen (long track) *or* Lime Rock (short track) any day of the week. No put down intended and no boasting intended -- it just is what it is.

 

By the way, an S-GT would kill my old '68 S-code on either track (and I've taken it around Watkins myself a few times), so I don't want you to think I'm biased.

 

And, believe me, PJ knows Watkins ;-) ...some pics I took in 1971 of him ruling!

 

...down the back straight

 

the interior

 

sneaking in under Donahue (I bleieve)

 

Hope we all get to see the modern redux of the above pics real soon

[AstroDan]

No pissing contest here... I like all the mustangs.

 

I do believe, car-for-car, the pecking order on a track (actual competition, not the 85th funday) is GT500, GT/SC, SGT, GT, V6. Does anyone seriously dispute that?

 

Btw, I'd drive a stock GT500 against Parnelli Jones in stock S-GT (or a V6 <lol>) at Watkins Glen (long track) *or* Lime Rock (short track) any day of the week. No put down intended and no boasting intended -- it just is what it is.

 

By the way, an S-GT would kill my old '68 S-code on either track (and I've taken it around Watkins myself a few times), so I don't want you to think I'm biased.

 

And, believe me, PJ knows Watkins ;-) ...some pics I took in 1971 of him ruling!

 

Hope we all get to see the modern redux of the above pics real soon

 

Way cool pics! I agree with your assessment of the pecking order. No offense taken. otoh, I doubt if PJ wanted to he would have trouble in a red flyer wagon against a mere mortal!!! (like me)

Just my .02

 

Dan

[68fastback]

Way cool pics! I agree with your assessment of the pecking order. No offense taken. otoh, I doubt if PJ wanted to he would have trouble in a red flyer wagon against a mere mortal!!! (like me)

Just my .02

 

Dan

 

He was simply amazing!! It's hard to describe how tight abnd hard fought the TransAm battles were. It was often virtually dead-even lap times with exquisite driving and him and George knowing when to 'risk it' and when not.

 

Btw, everyone associates PJ with #15, but note in the above pics #15 says "George Follmer" on the roof edge. They would often swap cars and and in the pic above it is PJ driving #15. I don't know why but, regardless of the name on the roof, PJ was most often in #15. #16 had his name on it in 1971 but I think I only saw him in it once (I only did the east-coast tracks). I'm glad Saleen went with #15 for the PJ since that was his ride of choice, roof-names notwithstanding. I used to wonder if it was a ploy to throw off the competition, but everyone knew PJ was in #15 and, even if they didn't, Follmer was every bit his equal -- such a great 'tag' team! You really have to be good to catch Donahue dozing in the middle of the 'lane' on the bottom 1/4 of the back straight before the big 110* turn, so you can nose under him and then play chicken with him forcing him to back off and yield to you. PJ had a way of going insanely deep into that turn and not lose it! Just amazinglt competant driving!

 

It wasn't like NASCAR either -- if you got your nose in cleanly and the other guy tried to squeeze you he just might get black-flagged ...TransAm was super-competitive and super 'clean' driving -- and SCCA officialy did not tolerate any driver BS like NASCAR does. Dale Earnhardt's 'illegal' style would put him on the trailer pretty quickly.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread -- I'm way off topic, I know -- just had to reminesce a little for ya (or for me <lol> ;-)

 

Dan

[AstroDan]

Why does the middle picture look like left drive? Reversed negative?

 

edit**** Oops....RIGHT drive!! lol

[SGT/SC#0471]

No pissing contest here... I like all the mustangs.

 

Paul (K1521) must have strapped some medicine on that V6 ...maybe the GT500 didn't notice he was running him ;-)

 

I do believe, car-for-car, the pecking order on a track (actual competition, not the 85th funday) is GT500, GT/SC, SGT, GT, V6. Does anyone seriously dispute that?

 

I don't doubt that a stock S-GT will slightly outhandle a dead stock GT500 -- after all the S-GT is a modded GT and FRp handling pack and it's better balance will show. But that's within the limits of the S-GT's output. You'd have to find a very twisty, very short, very unusual track for the GT500's power to not make the difference around any reasonable track overall. If you think otherwise it might be worth driving one.

 

I've had a lot of seat miles in a 2001 Cobra -- fully aluminum drivetrain, IRS, performance pieces that bring it up to 318HP (at the wheels), so it has abut 15% more HP than the S-GT and it's IRS makes a big dif too, and there is NO WAY that Cobra will lead a GT500 around any track I know of.

 

The S-GT is a really sweet ride for what it is. I don't mean to look like I'm putting it down in any way. The GT is solid base and the FRP upgrades do make a sizeable difference, but in the hands of drivers of comparable skills who are actually competing, the pecking order is clear to me -- and, the longer the track, the longer distances between them.

 

That was my point. I sincerely hope I didn't offend any S-GT[/sC] (or V6) owners ...we're all a family here. I was merely trying to exaplin that the cars are engineered to differing capabilities.

 

Btw, I'd drive a stock GT500 against Parnelli Jones in stock S-GT (or a V6 <lol>) at Watkins Glen (long track) *or* Lime Rock (short track) any day of the week. No put down intended and no boasting intended -- it just is what it is.

 

By the way, an S-GT would kill my old '68 S-code on either track (and I've taken it around Watkins myself a few times), so I don't want you to think I'm biased.

 

And, believe me, PJ knows Watkins ;-) ...some pics I took in 1971 of him ruling!

 

Hope we all get to see the modern redux of the above pics real soon

 

 

I saw a video of a GT500 on a track, it slid around corners sideways, brake late accelerate early ain't gonna help you. Stock vs Stock the SGT will win a road course with same drivers, I would wager money on it. The handling is that big of a difference, Hp don't mean beans if you cannot get the grip. Drag or roadrace. I wish someone would do this test. I think you would be shocked at the results, ever hear of a Lotus elise, not much hp hauls ass on a road course.

[68fastback]

Why does the middle picture look like left drive? Reversed negative?

 

edit**** Oops....RIGHT drive!! lol

 

Good eyes, Dan! Yeah, I shot the old slides with my digicam on macro -- musta had it upside down Thanks... never noticed that!

 

Dan

[TheKurgan]

No pissing contest here... I like all the mustangs.

 

Paul (K1521) must have strapped some medicine on that V6 ...maybe the GT500 didn't notice he was running him ;-)

 

I do believe, car-for-car, the pecking order on a track (actual competition, not the 85th funday) is GT500, GT/SC, SGT, GT, V6. Does anyone seriously dispute that?

 

 

I most definitely dispute that. The real order is GT/SC, SGT, GT500, GT, V6 for a road course and GT/SC, GT500, SGT, GT, V6 on a drag strip. If anyone disputes that then they dont' know their mustangs very well.

[mciarochi]

I most definitely dispute that. The real order is GT/SC, SGT, GT500, GT, V6 for a road course and GT/SC, GT500, SGT, GT, V6 on a drag strip. If anyone disputes that then they dont' know their mustangs very well.

Hmmm, let me guess which one you own....

 

I think the real answer is, we all modify our cars eventually - they are all built on the same frame. Suspension and tires being equal, you can take that 5.4L places where the 4.6 simply can't go.

[TheKurgan]

Hmmm, let me guess which one you own....

 

I think the real answer is, we all modify our cars eventually - they are all built on the same frame. Suspension and tires being equal, you can take that 5.4L places where the 4.6 simply can't go.

 

 

such as ...

 

 

A very important factor you GT500 guys(love ya btw) keep forgetting is weight. The 2 cars will never be equal in suspension, acceleration, etc due to that one factor.

 

2 cars with the same HP and one weighs 400 pounds less...guess which one takes the checkered flag...guess which one goes through the corners better?

[mywickedshelby]

I have to agree, stock to stock, the SGT wins.

Now if we are talkin modded, its a case by case basis.

[RogerS]

That 650 HP GT500 just could not pass me.

 

 

Road hog!!!

 

[SWEDEMAN]

You need a Swedish master to settle this crap, and I was mostly a European race car lover for many years -

1) GT/SC, GT500, SGT drag race

2) GT/SC, SGT, GT500 road course

 

Sorry to all who thought differently!

[SWEDEMAN]

EDIT~