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TheKurgan

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McCoy, I have checked the statistics re fire and police deaths in the line of duty. There are far more police officers killed every year. Like any debate there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Fire personnel often claim any heart attack, even off duty, as a line of duty death. Police statistics are recorded by the FBI through Uniform Crime Reporting and only count officers killed in the line of duty. Obviously the FBI statistics are correct.

 

I am curious. You mentioned you are kicking back and drinking while your attorney appears in court. You never mentioned if you actually committed the violations?

 

Apparently not as my records clean, right?

 

Lulu, I really do hope we can meet in person one day and have a beer, your a cool dude. I enjoy your point of view, and you are a true car guy in every sense of the word.

 

And really I am really not cop bashing, I am speed ticket bashing, I have lived in 3 different major cities and have seen and dealt with the guys who you are up against, hats off to you. I wish all officers were car guys maybe the warning rate vs ticket rate would go more towards warnings haha.

 

BTW 69 , Where are you coming from on the drug crap, I don't do drugs, never said I did, I think alot of people do though, judging by how they drive in this city. Cheech and Chong is super funny though. You should watch it it's a hoot.

 

I have both police officers and firemen in my family on the East Coast. I am only saying that respect is given by the respect you give. I have no doubt that a stop by Lulu would be cool and respectful he is a good guy. A stop by Bull I can only wonder.

 

I am respectful to everyone when I meet them.

 

The ticket I got for going 5 over in a 1975 scout 4x4 really was stupid, and like I told the disrespectful officer (he really was), and I quote "I am sure someone will see you in court". I am hard to judge by my appearance, I have no 9-5 ( got very very lucky with my 4 business's) and look big and freaky and have an affinity for flat black spray paint on vehicles. I also prefer ratty jeans and t-shirts with steel toed boots. I drive over the speed limit occasionally and can afford the best attorneys, though.

 

Recently I got a warning from a really respectful and polite officer for a cross intersection burn-out, I was breaking the law willfully and sober, but no one was around or so I thought, he asked if I was maybe too old to be driving that way, and then asked twice if I was sure that it was my car. Like I said I look like a dishelved dude, and I don't shave every day. When I looked in my rear view mirror as he got in his car he was laughing to himself. I would have taken the ticket, but I am glad he saw it for what it was: a guy having fun, and not hurting anyone. Trouble is for a citizen, when the lights flash you don't know who's coming to your window, so its stressful for all involved.

 

DUI, and unsafe vehicle operation are different than driving fast when its safe to do so IMO.

 

Again no disrespect to LULU he deserves respect, and I am sure you do too 69, we just disagree thats all.

 

Besides LULU is retired and I hope driving the snot out of his car!

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Thank you for your kind remarks, MCCOY, no offense has been taken. I've been listening to citizens unload their opinions for 30 years, I'm pretty thick-skinned. Besides, sometimes they are right.

 

I agree with your objection over speeding tickets. As long as nothing else is out of line, and it's not 30+ over, it should be a mail-in fine WITH NO POINTS on the record. That I could deal with, piece of cake.

 

I feel for the poor working stiff out here just trying to put food on the family table. You see them every day, cars held together with duct tape, coat hangers, and a prayer. One of these dudes running late to the second 8 hour shift of the day, always had my respect.

 

Kids gone crazy on crotch rockets and SRT-4s on juice on the city streets? Sorry, they aren't "car guys" in my book, and need to rope it in. Seen too many wrapped around telephone poles and innocent bystanders killed when they walked away. Sad, but true.

 

Last time I got stopped in my SGT, the cop was older than me. he said "aren't you a bit old for this car?" to which I replied "Arent YOU a bit old for THAT car?" "yeah, I guess. Go on, get out of here".

 

You're okay in my book, MCCOY, drive on.

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McCoy, if you got a ticket for 5 over I agree that was wrong. I would not have done it. I would not give a break on DUI as I have seen too many, including entire families wiped out by a drunk. I usually gave about 13-15 over in the city and usually 15 over on the expressway before citing anyone. And the majority of people thanked me when I walked away. Then they caught themselves and said what am I thanking you for? I always treated people like they treated me and gave them a few freebies as far as mouthing off. Then told them don't cross the line. If they continued they went to jail, if not , we both went our separate ways. Then went into investigations and drug/vice work. You have to know how to talk to people to do any good in either scenario. Actually the beat cop needs to know how to talk to people. Even cops don't like other cops that run their mouths. But please don't judge all cops by the few you have apparently met. As far as LEO and SGTs there is going to be an intersection because one is sworn to enforce the law, including speed, and the others want to speed. I met a great Texas state trooper recently in my SGT. I was going 86 in an 80 MPH zone. He stopped me because the speed limit dropped to 60 at night and I did not realize that. He also told me to watch out for deer on the expressway. I continued on and sure enough there were deer everywhere crossing the expressway and in the median and it was DARK. Had I continued at 80+ I probably would not have had time to avoid one. But again, SGT drivers bought the car to drive and occasionally drive hard. Cops are bound to uphold the law. And we have all seen people going too fast that have killed or maimed too many. All of us need to drive safe. We just need tracks to go to where we can let it out safely on a routine basis and if we hurt someone it is only ourselves.

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+10000 driving is priv. Oh and I must say this: I have never met a cop in my hometown that I knew in high school or college, that is because they were the ones who got picked on in school now they have a gun and a badge and they think they are God. Sorry bull but you started that one!

 

dont apply here...6 foot 280pounds...600 on the bench press...been lifting for years..took on 2 guys (2 verse me) a few months ago at same time..i won...to answer your question....i hardly ever write traffic tickets i hate it...however if your acting stupid then its my turn (i do have discretion)....oh and the comment about the 17 year old chewing out a cop...that was a good one....i would have had loads of fun on that one..yes i edited this after i read the posts...

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Pastor, you mentioned beers all around. Will that be at the SGT Mafia Bar and Grill?

 

 

Actually 69, my offer was to buy Mac a beer If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you Mac, first round's on me. but hey... why not, the more the merrier

 

Jim

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dont apply here...6 foot 280pounds...600 on the bench press...been lifting for years..took on 2 guys (2 verse me) a few months ago at same time..i won...to answer your question....i hardly ever write traffic tickets i hate it...however if your acting stupid then its my turn (i do have discretion)....oh and the comment about the 17 year old chewing out a cop...that was a good one....i would have had loads of fun on that one..yes i edited this after i read the posts...

 

Maybe you should give up police work and get into Ultimate Fighting...or pro-football.

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hey 69 I am with you, have seen what DUI does to a family when someone dies...not cool. I could not deal with that like you guys do. And I once saw a guy outside Philly so on something that he would go up to about 80 and then stop in the middle of the expressway repeatedly, very, very scary. That's a ticket I can agree with for sure. I have been riding motorcycles since I was a little kid and I can tell you, it's look out for the car everytime, all the time. Good thing is as a consequence, thats how I drive cars too.

 

I spent some miles on some crotch rockets and its insane, over the top, but fun in the right place and time. 9.8 sec 1/4 stock, not for the novice, or showoff. Driving like a jerk is not cool for anyone. And I had some really great $400 cars in my time as my sole transportation, in fact the aforementioned scout cost $400, haha! These days I am into my sgt and I am looking forward to trying some autocrossing this spring. Should be way cool! And no tickets!!! Haha. :shift:

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hey 69 I am with you, have seen what DUI does to a family when someone dies...not cool. I could not deal with that like you guys do. And I once saw a guy outside Philly so on something that he would go up to about 80 and then stop in the middle of the expressway repeatedly, very, very scary. That's a ticket I can agree with for sure. I have been riding motorcycles since I was a little kid and I can tell you, it's look out for the car everytime, all the time. Good thing is as a consequence, thats how I drive cars too.

 

I spent some miles on some crotch rockets and its insane, over the top, but fun in the right place and time. 9.8 sec 1/4 stock, not for the novice, or showoff. Driving like a jerk is not cool for anyone. And I had some really great $400 cars in my time as my sole transportation, in fact the aforementioned scout cost $400, haha! These days I am into my sgt and I am looking forward to trying some autocrossing this spring. Should be way cool! And no tickets!!! Haha. :shift:

 

i probably worked a half dozen bike accidents last summer..we had numerous fatalities here..one guy lost control and went thru some barb wire...had the bike less then a week...gold wing type so had no idea how to handle a big bike.....barb wire slowed his decent but peeled his scalp back...long story short his brain was exposed..he survived...im 100% pro bike..but some just have no business on a bike...and the stupid activities translates into a lot of pain and involves hospitalization.....whats sad about dui crashes..is the drunk usually survives..they are so relaxed the body does not tense up...most fatalities ive seen are in the car the drunk hit...bottom line..enjoy your shelby...just dont enjoy a beer and the car at the same time...wanna drink..hang out in your garage and apply a nice coat of mothers wax while while you enjoy that beer...best advice i can give

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i probably worked a half dozen bike accidents last summer..we had numerous fatalities here..one guy lost control and went thru some barb wire...had the bike less then a week...gold wing type so had no idea how to handle a big bike.....barb wire slowed his decent but peeled his scalp back...long story short his brain was exposed..he survived...im 100% pro bike..but some just have no business on a bike...and the stupid activities translates into a lot of pain and involves hospitalization.....whats sad about dui crashes..is the drunk usually survives..they are so relaxed the body does not tense up...most fatalities ive seen are in the car the drunk hit...bottom line..enjoy your shelby...just dont enjoy a beer and the car at the same time...wanna drink..hang out in your garage and apply a nice coat of mothers wax while while you enjoy that beer...best advice i can give

 

Well so under the scalp there is a skull, under that is a brain...ever see a "golved" hand?

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So at risk of being flamed, for 69 here.

 

 

 

 

As Forbes magazine noted in late 2002, the atrocity at Ground Zero dramatically skewed data on workplace fatality rates collected each year by the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics through its “Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries.” In “a normal year, like 2000,” explained Forbes, “the most dangerous jobs do not involve firefighting or police work; they involve cutting timber and fishing.”

 

 

 

 

In an essay drawing on the most recent BLS findings, David R. Butcher of Industrial Market Trends compiled the following roster of the ten most dangerous U.S. occupations:

 

 

 

 

*Fishers and Fishing Industry Workers, whose fatality rate was 142 deaths per 100,000 workers;

 

 

 

 

*Pilots and Flight Engineers, particularly crop dusters, test pilots, and chopper drivers (88/100,000);

 

 

 

*Loggers (82/100,000);

 

 

 

*Iron and Steel Workers (61/100,ooo);

 

 

 

*Refuse and Recyclable Material Collectors (42/100,000);

 

 

 

 

*Farmers and Ranchers (38/100,000);

 

 

 

 

*Electrical Power Line Workers – Installers and Repairers (35/100,000)

 

 

 

 

*Roofers (34/100,000);

 

 

 

 

*Drivers – truckers or sales personnel (27/100,000);

 

 

 

 

*Agricultural Workers (22/100,000);

 

 

 

One arresting aspect of this list is the fact that not a single one of the most dangerous occupations is a “public” sector job. Some of them (such as garbage collectors and test pilots) might work for government, either directly or via a contractor, but there isn't a single job on that list that “must” be done by government. The fatality rate for all government occupations, incidentally, is 2.5 per 100,000.

 

 

 

 

Which means that in our society, as in every other, it is the private producers, who face the greatest dangers on a daily basis.

 

 

 

 

If you work as a logger, farmer, field worker, truck driver, or in an occupation that requires a long daily commute, your job is statistically more dangerous than law enforcement.

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from where i'm "standing" or "sitting" or "laying" or being "bent over" there are 2 kinds of cops: those who chose the profession to help their community and those who basically just want the "authoritahhh!".

and i've met both kinds. the latter of the 2 are ones that i call "suuuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeiiiiiiii"

 

lulu would be the one i would call a community servant. not an "oinker".

 

to be in this line of work you have to know how to handle stress in "any" situation. be cautious but be polite but not affable. be tactful and use deliberation in your actions toward the person in question. the person's attitude shouldnt determine rather he/she get a ticket or just a warning, be objective not subjective (meaning observe the actions of what the motorist did to warrant being pulled over, not the words he spoke). if the driver spats a wise comment he probably just having a bad day. we're all human, not drones. we deal with stress in other lines of work. everyone has to deal with morons everyday rather its cops who deal with a few traffic violators or a waiter who has to deal with a "btchy" customer who think they are always right and they have to be thier slave.

 

i hate being in a restaraunt and see another customer sitting there treating a waiter or waitress like thier crap. u cops got it easy. at least u can just cut a ticket, hand it to him and tell them "have a nice day". a waiter has to take that crap and suck on it. yeah they can spit in thier food then serve it to them but they cant really stand up to them like cops can stand up to an offender and say "ok hands behind ur head".

blah blah blah

 

ok i dont even know where i am goin with this. i dont even work in restaraunts.

i work in a factory. but i accually take DAMN GOOD pride in my work even though i never get to meet or face the customer who buys the products i make, and never have to have a customer gripe in my face, but i never get a thank you either. just a pat on the back from some corporate suit and a .05 cent raise once a year and 2 weeks vacation after 10 years of breathing and workin around chemicals that probably will give me cancer in 20 years. YEAH YEAH i can get a job somewhere else thats less hazardous (so can cops, firefighters, etc.), but i love my job. what can i say?

 

ughh.....i just ate a big breakfast :barf:

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McCoy, I don't claim to know all of the statistics but of course admit that Law Enforcement is not necessarily the most dangerous profession. I did state that policing is more dangerous than fire fighting. And remember there are lies, damn lies, then statistics. I do know that in the 70's we averaged about 250 law enforcement officers being killed per year. It has now dropped to about 150 I think. And I am sure the occupations you quoted are hazardous, maybe very hazardous, but there is a difference. Few of those people in their occupations are murdered because of the job they are doing. Right or wrong, I will always feel that when someone murders a law enforcement officer they are striking out at society its self. Right or wrong it is the police officer that represents society to the criminal element. If they will kill a police officer they would not think twice about a private citizen. And many feel a hatred towards society because of their position and the police officer is the person they strike out at.

 

But again, I concur that law enforcement is not the most dangerous of professions. But I cannot think of another profession, except drug dealer, where someone is murdered because of their profession.

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McCoy, here is a web site you may wish to review as it presents different statistics than you offered.

 

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/archive/summer1999art1.pdf

 

You stated that fire fighters had a more dangerous job than police officers but the government statistics show over 3 three times more police killed than fire fighters from 1992-97. I am sure there are more recent stats but I do not have them.

 

In closing I think we are starting to beat a dead horse. There are a lot of very dangerous occupations and many I would not want to have. I do not want to work around chemicals in a factory or be exposed to loud sounds in a factory. I don't want to work in an office.

 

Lets all agree that we love our SGTs and some of the most hazardous, and least compensated and thanked, are those of our armed forces.

 

If we are in agreement then lets get back to Shelbys. First round is on me at the SGT Mafia Bar and Grill. But I don't know how an Irishman will be accepted at the Mafia Bar.

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McCoy, here is a web site you may wish to review as it presents different statistics than you offered.

 

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/archive/summer1999art1.pdf

 

You stated that fire fighters had a more dangerous job than police officers but the government statistics show over 3 three times more police killed than fire fighters from 1992-97. I am sure there are more recent stats but I do not have them.

 

In closing I think we are starting to beat a dead horse. There are a lot of very dangerous occupations and many I would not want to have. I do not want to work around chemicals in a factory or be exposed to loud sounds in a factory. I don't want to work in an office.

 

Lets all agree that we love our SGTs and some of the most hazardous, and least compensated and thanked, are those of our armed forces.

 

If we are in agreement then lets get back to Shelbys. First round is on me at the SGT Mafia Bar and Grill. But I don't know how an Irishman will be accepted at the Mafia Bar.

 

Yeah Ok! :headspin: the first statistic I got was from an internet source. And my biased fireman Uncle. Anyway, thanks for filling me in. Also note that where you are an officer could make a very huge difference, so the statistics do not address specific situations. Anyways, 69 and LULU are ok in my book, and I always judge people as individuals anyways, as I hope everyone can.

 

Hopefully, you guys could spread the word that guys in Shelby's really are driving safe at 80 as the car is made for it! :hysterical: And help us out for getting warnings instead of tickets.

 

The guys in the Military deserve everything and more, lets hope they all come home safe and well. Thanks you guys!

 

Well if they are letting you in the sgt bar and grill, as an Irishman, hopefully they will let me in as well. Erin go Braugh! Pints of Guiness all around!

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i will say this... you chose your profession. it doesn't chose you.

i just dont like it when people go around sayin that one's occupation is more dangerous (either of risk being murdered, or from neglegence or act of God) just to justify a view. because its only goin to turn into a peepee contest. i'm not directing my comments to anyone specific. i'm just speakin my mind here to let people know i'm not goin to get my blue suede shoes get stepped on by anyone who wants to be the "asteroid orafice" of teamshelby.com

 

anyway a little side note: if you want to argue statistics...more deaths (and i mean "any" kind of death. homicide, natural causes, etc.) occur at home than on "a" job.

 

i dont like beating the dead horse either and i try to avoid it but if i ever gonna do it i'm goin to use the biggest bat in the forum :beatdeadhorse: :chairshot:

 

ok i got that off my chest...

its 70º outside. i'm goin to go drive my Shelby and be happy. :headspin:

 

+111111111 on mccoy's comment: "....Anyways, 69 and LULU are ok in my book, and I always judge people as individuals anyways, as I hope everyone can...."

 

peace, love, hapiness to all

enjoy the clip...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=is4lWYGM6rM

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If we are in agreement then lets get back to Shelbys. First round is on me at the SGT Mafia Bar and Grill. But I don't know how an Irishman will be accepted at the Mafia Bar.

You will be accepted just fine, have you never heard of the Irish mafia?

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Just thought I'd add a touch of iorny here...

 

In 2003, the City of Chicago recorded 1/2 the homicides of the previous five years. While everyone was taking their bows for new and effective LE programs and aggressive crime-fighting technology, one factor was overlooked.

 

In that budget year, the City purchased 50 new EMS units (ambulances), and hired 150 new paramedics while promoting high quality in-service paramedics to supervisory positions.

 

Thus...The difference between a homicide stat in the Uniform Crime Reporting Act to the FBI, is who survived the attack.

 

Stats...You can bend them anyway you want, just a matter of what you want to prove.

 

The NTSB does the same thing. When a bus full of travelers goes over a cliff and 25 die in the crash, it's not one fatal accident. It's 25 highway fatalities.

 

Go figure...

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