GT500 Pricing and supply....

[badlx]

I am on this board almost daily reading, but hardly ever post anything. I am on several waiting lists, as I am sure many that frequent this board are.

 

I noticed an interesting thing today when I *almost* bought a GT500 on eBay. That GT500 coupe sold for 54k, which is not too bad. A month ago I would've jumped on it, but today I stopped and said "self" if this car's going for 54k in an open market, MSRP (and dare I say under MSRP) might not be as far off as I think. So I passed.

 

I also noticed on eBay tonight, there are a lot of GT500s showing up. Remember too that this is just the initial supply hit, combo that fact with the fact many dealers are still trying to get their 60 - 75k asking prices, and things are going to back up quick. I think several dealerships are going to learn a hard lesson in short order.

 

Point of my post is that I think things are going to cool down more quickly than I imagined. That coupe selling for 54k today is proof that it's not going to take long to purge the MSRP + people from the system.

[Joe G]

I am on this board almost daily reading, but hardly ever post anything. I am on several waiting lists, as I am sure many that frequent this board are.

 

I noticed an interesting thing today when I *almost* bought a GT500 on eBay. That GT500 coupe sold for 54k, which is not too bad. A month ago I would've jumped on it, but today I stopped and said "self" if this car's going for 54k in an open market, MSRP (and dare I say under MSRP) might not be as far off as I think. So I passed.

 

I also noticed on eBay tonight, there are a lot of GT500s showing up. Remember too that this is just the initial supply hit, combo that fact with the fact many dealers are still trying to get their 60 - 75k asking prices, and things are going to back up quick. I think several dealerships are going to learn a hard lesson in short order.

 

Point of my post is that I think things are going to cool down more quickly than I imagined. That coupe selling for 54k today is proof that it's not going to take long to purge the MSRP + people from the system.

 

Good observation. As supply increases (and demand stays the same or even goes down as people move on or finally get their car) prices WILL go down. Has too! Prices are always highest in the beginning (unless something drastic changes like Ford goes Chapter 11 and stops producing cars tomorrow!).

[Alloy Dave]

As demand stays the same or even goes down as people move on or finally get their car

 

Or as Five Oh steers more and more potential GT500 customers to V6 Mustangs.

 

Just kidding with ya Five Oh....just kidding.

 

Dave

[Five Oh B]

Or as Five Oh steers more and more potential GT500 customers to V6 Mustangs.

 

Just kidding with ya Five Oh....just kidding.

 

Dave

 

 

"Yessir, Mr Customer, the V6 Mustang uses overhead cams just like the GT500 does and the interior is almost exactly the same. And you'll hardly miss the extra gear - heck, 5 is plenty. We'll put those thar racin stripes on this here V6 for $800, and you'll save $30K versus a GT500. That $30K will buy lots of goodies for your wife, 'cuz I can tell who's wearin' the pants back at your place."

[jrichard]

I am on this board almost daily reading, but hardly ever post anything. I am on several waiting lists, as I am sure many that frequent this board are.

 

I noticed an interesting thing today when I *almost* bought a GT500 on eBay. That GT500 coupe sold for 54k, which is not too bad. A month ago I would've jumped on it, but today I stopped and said "self" if this car's going for 54k in an open market, MSRP (and dare I say under MSRP) might not be as far off as I think. So I passed.

 

I also noticed on eBay tonight, there are a lot of GT500s showing up. Remember too that this is just the initial supply hit, combo that fact with the fact many dealers are still trying to get their 60 - 75k asking prices, and things are going to back up quick. I think several dealerships are going to learn a hard lesson in short order.

 

Point of my post is that I think things are going to cool down more quickly than I imagined. That coupe selling for 54k today is proof that it's not going to take long to purge the MSRP + people from the system.

 

 

+1

 

As each day passes, I'm more convinced ADMs will fall more quickly than most (including me) imagined just a month ago.

[Guest evilchris]

This is exactly how I imagined it.

 

[SteelSteeds]

+1

 

As each day passes, I'm more convinced ADMs will fall more quickly than most (including me) imagined just a month ago.

 

 

Those of us who got flamed for saying this two months ago are having a hard time not

 

 

[Fastbackman]

I am on this board almost daily reading, but hardly ever post anything. I am on several waiting lists, as I am sure many that frequent this board are.

 

I noticed an interesting thing today when I *almost* bought a GT500 on eBay. That GT500 coupe sold for 54k, which is not too bad. A month ago I would've jumped on it, but today I stopped and said "self" if this car's going for 54k in an open market, MSRP (and dare I say under MSRP) might not be as far off as I think. So I passed.

 

I also noticed on eBay tonight, there are a lot of GT500s showing up. Remember too that this is just the initial supply hit, combo that fact with the fact many dealers are still trying to get their 60 - 75k asking prices, and things are going to back up quick. I think several dealerships are going to learn a hard lesson in short order.

 

Point of my post is that I think things are going to cool down more quickly than I imagined. That coupe selling for 54k today is proof that it's not going to take long to purge the MSRP + people from the system.

 

 

I think you were wise to pass on this. If more people start thinking the way you do, prices will normalize very soon.

[cutter]

+1

 

As each day passes, I'm more convinced ADMs will fall more quickly than most (including me) imagined just a month ago.

 

 

A local dealer had a vert on the showroom floor, it sold for 57K....

[Guest evilchris]

A local dealer had a vert on the showroom floor, it sold for 57K....

 

 

hahah 9k over. ROFL @ dealers and their Barret Jackson dilusions.

[JETSOLVER]

Remember too that this is just the initial supply hit, combo that fact with the fact many dealers are still trying to get their 60 - 75k asking prices, and things are going to back up quick. I think several dealerships are going to learn a hard lesson in short order.

 

Not nearly as satisfying as waiting for the hard lesson in the long order (customer relations). That is going to be sweet indeed...... :rolleyes: I despair of most of those sorts actually understanding the lesson however...

[RUFDRAFT]

Notice how I'm saying nothing....

[Alloy Dave]

Notice how I'm saying nothing....

 

Shhhhh...be vewy vewy quiet.

[BadTony]

I think you were wise to pass on this. If more people start thinking the way you do, prices will normalize very soon.

 

 

 

hmmm...now why didn't I think of that?

 

EVERYONE needs to think that way for the benefit of ALL. High ADMs will then be no more.

[Snakehead]

I've never paid more than MSRP for a car until now ($3k mark-up on a coupe) and I've been second guessing myself from day one. I better get the car soon and like it enough to forget I got hosed for the $3k.

[CobraCrazy]

I've never paid more than MSRP for a car until now ($3k mark-up on a coupe) and I've been second guessing myself from day one. I better get the car soon and like it enough to forget I got hosed for the $3k.

 

Don't feel bad; I swore I would NEVER pay more than MSRP, but I'm paying 5k over (if I ever get it).

[jrichard]

Don't feel bad about paying ADM...and you guys paid such a small one that it's almost irrelevant. It's true that the car will likely sell for less than you are paying for it in the future...but big deal. It's selling for more right now. You've locked in your deal at a price you can live with. Don't second-guess yourself...it won't do any good and it'll take some of the fun out of getting the car. In all respects, paying ADM is the right thing to do if that's what works for you.

 

The problem with the notion that everyone should stop paying ADM and then we'd all soon get our cars for MSRP is, of course, that demand at MSRP exceeds supply for the forseeable future. So, even if everyone refused to pay more than MSRP, most of us would still have a long wait for the car...which is the same situation that we have right now.

 

My guess is we'll be at MSRP before the '08s arrive...but that's neither here nor there...it's just a guess.

[Joe G]

The problem with the notion that everyone should stop paying ADM and then we'd all soon get our cars for MSRP is, of course, that demand at MSRP exceeds supply for the forseeable future. So, even if everyone refused to pay more than MSRP, most of us would still have a long wait for the car...which is the same situation that we have right now.

 

Nope, I don't thing anyone believes that Ford will make all 9000 (or whatever the final number will be) over the 1st 3 months of production. They'll make them pretty equally over the next 12 months. Doesn't matter if you paid MSRP or a huge ADM - price has no effect on delivery schedule (as we've seen by some who have the car and have paid MSRP while some have it and have paid much more).

 

I don't mind waiting... it's just the waiting + paying ADM that I was/am against. Is $10-20k worth getting a car 3-9 months earlier than my neighbor?? HECK NO! Not good business sense to me. Shouldn't be good business sense to anyone else either. Doesn't matter if you or I CAN afford to do it. The better, and more important question is, SHOULD we do it. Anyone who can afford it should have better business sense than to waste money just to get it sooner. Same car as the next guy, but the 1st guy paid the most.

[Guest evilchris]

Nope, I don't thing anyone believes that Ford will make all 9000 (or whatever the final number will be) over the 1st 3 months of production. They'll make them pretty equally over the next 12 months. Doesn't matter if you paid MSRP or a huge ADM - price has no effect on delivery schedule (as we've seen by some who have the car and have paid MSRP while some have it and have paid much more).

 

I don't mind waiting... it's just the waiting + paying ADM that I was/am against. Is $10-20k worth getting a car 3-9 months earlier than my neighbor?? HECK NO! Not good business sense to me. Shouldn't be good business sense to anyone else either. Doesn't matter if you or I CAN afford to do it. The better, and more important question is, SHOULD we do it. Anyone who can afford it should have better business sense than to waste money just to get it sooner. Same car as the next guy, but the 1st guy paid the most.

 

 

No kidding. I'm tired of the "some people can afford it" BS. I bought a Denon receiver recently for $1700. It was $2000 MSRP. I could afford that in less than one paycheck. I didn't buy it though until I got a good deal.

 

I can also afford $75k for a Shelby but sure as hell am not going to spend $30k for a temporary penis enlargement. ( being 1st on the block )

[CobraCrazy]

Nope, I don't thing anyone believes that Ford will make all 9000 (or whatever the final number will be) over the 1st 3 months of production. They'll make them pretty equally over the next 12 months. Doesn't matter if you paid MSRP or a huge ADM - price has no effect on delivery schedule (as we've seen by some who have the car and have paid MSRP while some have it and have paid much more).

 

I don't mind waiting... it's just the waiting + paying ADM that I was/am against. Is $10-20k worth getting a car 3-9 months earlier than my neighbor?? HECK NO! Not good business sense to me. Shouldn't be good business sense to anyone else either. Doesn't matter if you or I CAN afford to do it. The better, and more important question is, SHOULD we do it. Anyone who can afford it should have better business sense than to waste money just to get it sooner. Same car as the next guy, but the 1st guy paid the most.

 

 

I know compared to some, I'm not getting that bad of a deal; I guess what makes me mad, at myself, is that I should have waited because to paraphrase JoeG I paid an ADM and I'm still waiting? I should have known better.

[RUFDRAFT]

Dave - you - are - killin' me - over - here :happy feet:

 

That one comment is probably the funniest thing I've read on these boards. No Sh*t.

 

Killin' me!

 

I even picture Elmer telling Bugs...

 

I may have to have that slogan lettered on the rear of my GT!

[Joe G]

I know compared to some, I'm not getting that bad of a deal; I guess what makes me mad, at myself, is that I should have waited because to paraphrase JoeG I paid an ADM and I'm still waiting? I should have known better.

 

Hope you didn't think I was flaming/making fun at you or anyone else here. We all have different beliefs and situations. However, like I said, I don't believe that being ABLE to pay ADM should equal ACTUALLY PAYING ADM.

 

Good luck with your wait.

[RUFDRAFT]

To those who have chosen to pay above sticker - it's your bread.

 

Perhaps some will consider waiting a while.

 

"It's your thing...do what you wanna do"

[STSVT]

To those who have chosen to pay above sticker - it's your bread.

 

Perhaps some will consider waiting a while.

 

"It's your thing...do what you wanna do"

 

Ruf ruf isint that the words from some song, are you off your meds again. You still owe me that pizza pie.If you come up north to visit your peeps in sheepshead bay, ill meet you at nathans in coney island the first round of weenies are on me (lol) then we can ride the cyclone coaster and puke up our lunch, not good. Then its off to the the bar a few hours later you can lend me the gt i want the smoke the rubber off those new 19,s .

[RUFDRAFT]

 

Yes, goombah - the lyrics from the Isley Bros - It's Your Thing!

 

Man - I really do miss the Big Apple in many ways - not just Coney Island.

 

When I was delivering steel in the 5 boroughs, I met so many great people. People who loved their neighborhoods and were genuine (not all of them!). People who would work past their lunch hour to get me off-loaded so I could scoot.

 

People who didn't complain about where they lived. They had Pride in their 'hood.

 

And - the Food. Mama Mia! How I miss really good sauce...and the Chinese... and the Irish corned beef...and the Polish sausage...

 

NYC is a great place - and will always be.

 

edit: Mama Leone's - the Stage Deli....Guido's...Oh...for a white clam pizza...

[STSVT]

 

Yes, goombah - the lyrics from the Isley Bros - It's Your Thing!

 

Man - I really do miss the Big Apple in many ways - not just Coney Island.

 

When I was delivering steel in the 5 boroughs, I met so many great people. People who loved their neighborhoods and were genuine (not all of them!). People who would work past their lunch hour to get me off-loaded so I could scoot.

 

People who didn't complain about where they lived. They had Pride in their 'hood.

 

And - the Food. Mama Mia! How I miss really good sauce...and the Chinese... and the Irish corned beef...and the Polish sausage...

 

NYC is a great place - and will always be.

 

edit: Mama Leone's - the Stage Deli....Guido's...Oh...for a white clam pizza...

 

 

I recently moved to nj, still have family in brooklyn but work in nyc times square area is still a very busy place but i am used to the mayhem Those !@#$$%% yellow cabs will run you off the road or sidewalk. Whatever stang i end up getting i will never take it into the city.

[mcduck]

Notice how I'm saying nothing....

hmm... isn't that a rarer occurence than someone actually taking delivery of the GT500 they ordered prior to MSRP pricing being announced?

 

No kidding. I'm tired of the "some people can afford it" BS. I bought a Denon receiver recently for $1700. It was $2000 MSRP. I could afford that in less than one paycheck. I didn't buy it though until I got a good deal.

 

I can also afford $75k for a Shelby but sure as hell am not going to spend $30k for a temporary penis enlargement. ( being 1st on the block )

 

Agreed... courtesy of my new job, I can afford a much more expensive car, but I'm only willing to pay what I perceive what this car is worth. For me, that is no more than MSRP. For others it is more. Just pay what your willing to and nothing more and I'm sure you'll enjoy your new toy when it arrives.

 

Personally, if I even began considering paying $10-$20 over MSRP for this car, I'd probably just wind up waiting and ordering a new Nissan GT-R (supposed to be an '09 model) or even a used Noble M400. At the GT500 price point, if I cannot pick up one at MSRP I'll default to either one heckuva nice Cobra kit car or maybe a Mallett Solstice... http://www.mallettcars.com/

[badlx]

Personally, if I even began considering paying $10-$20 over MSRP for this car, I'd probably just wind up waiting and ordering a new Nissan GT-R (supposed to be an '09 model) or even a used Noble M400. At the GT500 price point, if I cannot pick up one at MSRP I'll default to either one heckuva nice Cobra kit car or maybe a Mallett Solstice... http://www.mallettcars.com/

 

 

 

Right, that's the issue, the 500 at MSRP is a fair price, and if you get it at 45k great. Heck, it's still a 45k Mustang, but it's pretty damn cool. However, once you start looking at the mid 50k or 60k price range, you start to enter another league. Maybe a Vett, maybe a 911, maybe a M5 - there are a lot of very cool driving machines that begin to show up on the radar between 50k - 75k. Hell, if you can do 60k, you can probably do 75k or 80k, so the choices get more complex. I wonder how many potential GT500 customers have ended up in other sports cars because of this logic, probably more than a few.

 

To test my desire for a GT500 I rented a Shelby H car a couple of months ago and afterwards decided I didn't want the GT500 because it was too "boy racer." I decided I was going to get a 911, and then decided the 911 was too "hey look at me I've made it" so now I'm back to looking for a GT500 . Point being I am sure there are some guys / gals in Vetts or something else because of the Shelby ADM situtation. Now if I was in management at Ford, understanding the issues which face my company, that wouldn't sit very well with me.

[jrichard]

Nope, I don't thing anyone believes that Ford will make all 9000 (or whatever the final number will be) over the 1st 3 months of production. They'll make them pretty equally over the next 12 months. Doesn't matter if you paid MSRP or a huge ADM - price has no effect on delivery schedule (as we've seen by some who have the car and have paid MSRP while some have it and have paid much more).

 

I don't mind waiting... it's just the waiting + paying ADM that I was/am against. Is $10-20k worth getting a car 3-9 months earlier than my neighbor?? HECK NO! Not good business sense to me. Shouldn't be good business sense to anyone else either. Doesn't matter if you or I CAN afford to do it. The better, and more important question is, SHOULD we do it. Anyone who can afford it should have better business sense than to waste money just to get it sooner. Same car as the next guy, but the 1st guy paid the most.

 

 

I absolutely agree that you should make sure you're getting something "extra" if you pay ADM. To most folks, that equates with early delivery. And that's why it's wise to have a cancellation or refund clause if the dealer isn't able to delivery by a certain time.

 

But, remember, some folks are fearful they won't get a car at all. Now many, including me, think that's an unreasonable fear. But it doesn't matter what I think...folks make that decision for themselves. And I'm thankful they do. The same information is available to all of us, so it's just an issue of ( a ) someone assesses the market differently then me, or ( b ) someone doesn't want to take the time to investigate the market and would rather spend the extra money than the extra time. Big deal.

 

And there are several other reasons I can think of to pay ADM.

 

As for me, I'm with you...it's not worth paying a bunch extra even if I get the car early. And I'm not afraid of "missing out" entirely. And the other reasons I'm thinking of aren't worth extra money, either. But, if others want to pay a lot for early delivery or guaranteed delivery or whatever, then more power to them. And if they don't have a clause that allows them to back out if the car is delivered late, then I'm guessing most will have learned a lesson in that respect.

 

So, that's the long way of getting to the word "should"...as in "should" someone pay ADM? I don't know if they should or shouldn't...in terms of how I assess the market, they "shouldn't"...but, again, it doesn't matter how I assess the market. If it works for them (..saves them time, saves them stress, gets the car early, guarantees delivery, etc. ) then they should. I'm with Ruf on this: it's their bread.

 

And I don't get this hostility (not from you, Joe G...right now I'm thinking of EC's post) toward people paying ADM "just because they can." EC equates ADM with throwing money away and gives an example of how he saved money by waiting to get a deal on a Denon. I'm more like EC that way...I wait for a deal. Waiting usually works for me. Sometimes I wait so long that I no longer want whatever it was in the first place! But so what? I don't get the connection because it has nothing to do with what an individual may get by paying more. And the folks paying ADM feel like they're getting something when the pay it...early delivery, guaranteed delivery, convenience, not having to deal with a bunch of salesmen, whatever.

 

In econ101, one would say the individual is maximizing his utility (...at the specific point in time...and that's an important component). It's just that your utility function is different than his utility function. Criticizing someone for paying ADM is the same as criticizing them for spending money on anything else that you think is a waste of money (...and claiming that paying ADM doesn't get them anything is a very poor argument and is very very easy to refute).

 

Sometimes, though, those paying ADM are not getting what they thought they were getting (e.g. early delivery). But that's really a different issue...that has to do not with paying ADM but making sure that both parties are in agreement as to what is actually being exchanged.

[Joe G]

I absolutely agree that you should make sure you're getting something "extra" if you pay ADM. To most folks, that equates with early delivery. And that's why it's wise to have a cancellation or refund clause if the dealer isn't able to delivery by a certain time.

 

But, remember, some folks are fearful they won't get a car at all. Now many, including me, think that's an unreasonable fear. But it doesn't matter what I think...folks make that decision for themselves. And I'm thankful they do. The same information is available to all of us, so it's just an issue of ( a ) someone assesses the market differently then me, or ( b ) someone doesn't want to take the time to investigate the market and would rather spend the extra money than the extra time. Big deal.

 

And there are several other reasons I can think of to pay ADM.

 

As for me, I'm with you...it's not worth paying a bunch extra even if I get the car early. And I'm not afraid of "missing out" entirely. And the other reasons I'm thinking of aren't worth extra money, either. But, if others want to pay a lot for early delivery or guaranteed delivery or whatever, then more power to them. And if they don't have a clause that allows them to back out if the car is delivered late, then I'm guessing most will have learned a lesson in that respect.

 

So, that's the long way of getting to the word "should"...as in "should" someone pay ADM? I don't know if they should or shouldn't...in terms of how I assess the market, they "shouldn't"...but, again, it doesn't matter how I assess the market. If it works for them (..saves them time, saves them stress, gets the car early, guarantees delivery, etc. ) then they should. I'm with Ruf on this: it's their bread.

 

And I don't get this hostility (not from you, Joe G...right now I'm thinking of EC's post) toward people paying ADM "just because they can." EC equates ADM with throwing money away and gives an example of how he saved money by waiting to get a deal on a Denon. I'm more like EC that way...I wait for a deal. Waiting usually works for me. Sometimes I wait so long that I no longer want whatever it was in the first place! But so what? I don't get the connection because it has nothing to do with what an individual may get by paying more. And the folks paying ADM feel like they're getting something when the pay it...early delivery, guaranteed delivery, convenience, not having to deal with a bunch of salesmen, whatever.

 

In econ101, one would say the individual is maximizing his utility (...at the specific point in time...and that's an important component). It's just that your utility function is different than his utility function. Criticizing someone for paying ADM is the same as criticizing them for spending money on anything else that you think is a waste of money (...and claiming that paying ADM doesn't get them anything is a very poor argument and is very very easy to refute).

 

Sometimes, though, those paying ADM are not getting what they thought they were getting (e.g. early delivery). But that's really a different issue...that has to do not with paying ADM but making sure that both parties are in agreement as to what is actually being exchanged.

 

No problem. We're cool. Everyone has their own opinion and their own situation.

 

I'll get my Shelby AND have the $10-30k that I didn't spend on ADM to spend on some other toy that, as you pointed out, doesn't necessarily economically make sense to buy!

 

BTW - this is why I hate econ... seems like for every econ principle that says "X" you can find another one that refutes it and says "Y". Now I remember why I hated business school!