kudos to a very fair dealer

[bull]

if anybody is interested koetting ford in granite city, illinois is the only dealer i know of in the greater st louis area who does not charge any asnine adm fee....they are decent people from my point of view...according to the general manager they should have 2 additional gt500's on the sales floor in the next month or so...they have no idea of color or options at this time.(2 bullitts in next month as well)..they did have 3 shelby gt's one of which was a black 07....i did strike up a conversation about 09 shelby gt 500 production..general manage stated no allocation yet from ford bet they believe it is likely...again...decent people and the sales guy did know mustangs...hard to believe but decent and knowledgable dealers do exist..i also asked about the hurricane in the f150 which i am most interested in..at this point general manager had no word on when hurricane will be available..damn i do hope ford sticks the hurricane in the f150 damn soon..competition is killing us right now especially in trucks

[Michael Morris]

glad you found a good dealer. theres still some of US out there. the F150 just completed 31 YEARS as the best selling truck. comp aint killing us yet.

michael morris

[ShelbyDude]

if anybody is interested koetting ford in granite city, illinois is the only dealer i know of in the greater st louis area who does not charge any asnine adm fee....they are decent people from my point of view...according to the general manager they should have 2 additional gt500's on the sales floor in the next month or so...they have no idea of color or options at this time.(2 bullitts in next month as well)..they did have 3 shelby gt's one of which was a black 07....i did strike up a conversation about 09 shelby gt 500 production..general manage stated no allocation yet from ford bet they believe it is likely...again...decent people and the sales guy did know mustangs...hard to believe but decent and knowledgable dealers do exist..i also asked about the hurricane in the f150 which i am most interested in..at this point general manager had no word on when hurricane will be available..damn i do hope ford sticks the hurricane in the f150 damn soon..competition is killing us right now especially in trucks

 

 

Glad you found a good dealer.

 

One question I have is if they will have two GT500's on the floor in a month or so, how can they not know colors and options? They would have had to order them and put the color and options into the order bank. So they would have to know, or at least the person at the dealership that does their ordering would.

[bull]

Glad you found a good dealer.

 

One question I have is if they will have two GT500's on the floor in a month or so, how can they not know colors and options? They would have had to order them and put the color and options into the order bank. So they would have to know, or at least the person at the dealership that does their ordering would.

mm i know you have helped a lot of people find cars..shelby dude youve helped many here as well..granted we may not see eye to eye on all things ford...but you guys have been a god send to members here..i can read...butt sucking brown nosing triate off

[Michael Morris]

mm i know you have helped a lot of people find cars..shelby dude youve helped many here as well..granted we may not see eye to eye on all things ford...but you guys have been a god send to members here..i can read...butt sucking brown nosing triate off

thanks for the kind works BULL

michael morris

[bull]

mm i know you have helped a lot of people find cars..shelby dude youve helped many here as well..granted we may not see eye to eye on all things ford...but you guys have been a god send to members here..i can read...butt sucking brown nosing triate off

whoops..the general manager said they are not allocated yet..but they should have 2 more gt500's in a month or two...funny thing is i did mention about $20k adm's fees at other dealerships to which gm responded.."i guess they don't want to sell cars"..like i mentioned above this is a good dealership....and as far as knowing about allocation and such i have zero knowledge...i dont sell cars for a living or work in a dealership..that just what he told me

[Michael Morris]

whoops..the general manager said they are not allocated yet..but they should have 2 more gt500's in a month or two...funny thing is i did mention about $20k adm's fees at other dealerships to which gm responded.."i guess they don't want to sell cars"..like i mentioned above this is a good dealership....and as far as knowing about allocation and such i have zero knowledge...i dont sell cars for a living or work in a dealership..that just what he told me

seems like hes hoping to get a few more allocations before the end of the year. funny thing about the car buisness, folks are always ready to sell something they DONT have cheaper than the guy that DOES have it. i will sell every GT500 i have ON the LOT for invoice, but i dont HAVE any right now. when i do get some that price might change. theres still alot of good dealers and this one your talking about might be one of them

michael morris

[bull]

seems like hes hoping to get a few more allocations before the end of the year. funny thing about the car buisness, folks are always ready to sell something they DONT have cheaper than the guy that DOES have it. i will sell every GT500 i have ON the LOT for invoice, but i dont HAVE any right now. when i do get some that price might change. theres still alot of good dealers and this one your talking about might be one of them

michael morris

my job is chasing the 10% of society that steals your kids bike and chocolate bars from the local 7-eleven..i can spot a liar..for anybody in the greater st louis area i just threw this out as a good place to start for those interested in buying a gt500...i will post info on the gt500 when the dealership has them...i gave my number and of course they told me they would call...

[DubbsFaris]

seems like hes hoping to get a few more allocations before the end of the year. funny thing about the car buisness, folks are always ready to sell something they DONT have cheaper than the guy that DOES have it. i will sell every GT500 i have ON the LOT for invoice, but i dont HAVE any right now. when i do get some that price might change. theres still alot of good dealers and this one your talking about might be one of them

michael morris

 

What is invoice on a GT500 anyway? just curious...

[ShelbyDude]

whoops..the general manager said they are not allocated yet..but they should have 2 more gt500's in a month or two...funny thing is i did mention about $20k adm's fees at other dealerships to which gm responded.."i guess they don't want to sell cars"..like i mentioned above this is a good dealership....and as far as knowing about allocation and such i have zero knowledge...i dont sell cars for a living or work in a dealership..that just what he told me

 

 

OK, that makes sense then. They can't know what something is when they don't have it ordered yet.

 

So they can let anyone pick and choose the color and options they want since they are not ordered yet.

[ShelbyDude]

What is invoice on a GT500 anyway? just curious...

 

 

MSRP on mine was $44,865

 

Invoice was $41,123.80

 

So it has $3,741.20 gross profit mark up.

 

We got two in 07 and one for 08. We had to pay the $1,500 enrollment fee. So that works out to $500 per car we paid for that. That brings the gross profit mark up down to $3,241.20 on my car, plus any ADM added to that.

 

Looking at a 08 with all options with Navigation. MSRP $48,195......Invoice $44,035.98

[Getts]

What is invoice on a GT500 anyway? just curious...

 

I got that info from edmunds.com. According to that site, invoice base price for the 08 coupe is 37,898; for the vert it's 42,192. As far as the options, invoice is about 10-15% less than MSRP.

 

I have the same exact car as you. Sticker was 52,760. I did the math with the numbers from edmunds and came up with an invoice for my (your) vehicle of 45,639 without gas tax and dest. Not sure how the gas and dest costs are applied, if at all, to the invoice price. Probably just paid by buyer.

 

 

Base price Invoice- 42,192 MSRP 46,755

Red Package Invoice-1436 MSRP-1,650

Shaker 1000 Invoice-1,127 MSRP-1,295

HID Invoice- 457 MSRP-525

Ambient Invoice- 257 MSRP-295

Sirius Invoice -170 MSRP-195

Gas Guzzler 1,300? 1,300

Dest 745? 745

[DubbsFaris]

MSRP on mine was $44,865

 

Invoice was $41,123.80

 

So it has $3,741.20 gross profit mark up.

 

We got two in 07 and one for 08. We had to pay the $1,500 enrollment fee. So that works out to $500 per car we paid for that. That brings the gross profit mark up down to $3,241.20 on my car, plus any ADM added to that.

 

Looking at a 08 with all options with Navigation. MSRP $48,195......Invoice $44,035.98

 

 

thanks for the info!

[frydguy79]

I got that info from edmunds.com. According to that site, invoice base price for the 08 coupe is 37,898; for the vert it's 42,192. As far as the options, invoice is about 10-15% less than MSRP.

 

I have the same exact car as you. Sticker was 52,760. I did the math with the numbers from edmunds and came up with an invoice for my (your) vehicle of 45,639 without gas tax and dest. Not sure how the gas and dest costs are applied, if at all, to the invoice price. Probably just paid by buyer.

 

 

Base price Invoice- 42,192 MSRP 46,755

Red Package Invoice-1436 MSRP-1,650

Shaker 1000 Invoice-1,127 MSRP-1,295

HID Invoice- 457 MSRP-525

Ambient Invoice- 257 MSRP-295

Sirius Invoice -170 MSRP-195

Gas Guzzler 1,300? 1,300

Dest 745? 745

So as you can see dealers are not making very much money on a 45000-55000 dollar car at msrp!!

less than 9%

which on a precentage basis is way less than wal mart and other stores makes on all the trash they sell

[SGT1197]

if anybody is interested koetting ford in granite city, illinois is the only dealer i know of in the greater st louis area who does not charge any asnine adm fee....they are decent people from my point of view...according to the general manager they should have 2 additional gt500's on the sales floor in the next month or so...they have no idea of color or options at this time.(2 bullitts in next month as well)..they did have 3 shelby gt's one of which was a black 07....i did strike up a conversation about 09 shelby gt 500 production..general manage stated no allocation yet from ford bet they believe it is likely...again...decent people and the sales guy did know mustangs...hard to believe but decent and knowledgable dealers do exist..i also asked about the hurricane in the f150 which i am most interested in..at this point general manager had no word on when hurricane will be available..damn i do hope ford sticks the hurricane in the f150 damn soon..competition is killing us right now especially in trucks

 

On January 29th I purchased the White w/Blue Stripes Shelby GT500 from this dealership. My salesman was Matt Yarbrough. General Manager is Marty McCabe. All I can say is they were great to work with. I would and will buy from them again. The conversation with Matt started out with $10,000 over sticker on my Shelby. I proceeded to tell Matt my stories from this forum and other forums about ADM's. I had just sold my 2007 Shelby GT and we talked about that as well. Yes, they do have a 2007 Shelby GT (black) on their showroom floor and the price on this car is at $35,000 something which they dropped. Needless to say I paid sticker because I held my ground. Sticker on my car was $46,880.00 with options. Was I being played. I don't know and don't care. All I cared about was paying sticker. The only bad thing about my car is that the front bumper was already drilled for the license plate bracket. I'm seriously considering getting that repaired and just buy the aftermarket bracket. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[ShelbyDude]

I got that info from edmunds.com. According to that site, invoice base price for the 08 coupe is 37,898; for the vert it's 42,192. As far as the options, invoice is about 10-15% less than MSRP.

 

I have the same exact car as you. Sticker was 52,760. I did the math with the numbers from edmunds and came up with an invoice for my (your) vehicle of 45,639 without gas tax and dest. Not sure how the gas and dest costs are applied, if at all, to the invoice price. Probably just paid by buyer.

 

 

Base price Invoice- 42,192 MSRP 46,755

Red Package Invoice-1436 MSRP-1,650

Shaker 1000 Invoice-1,127 MSRP-1,295

HID Invoice- 457 MSRP-525

Ambient Invoice- 257 MSRP-295

Sirius Invoice -170 MSRP-195

Gas Guzzler 1,300? 1,300

Dest 745? 745

 

 

Gas tax and dest IS added to the invoice cost.

 

This is why in some regions Ford shows what the dealer invoice is on every car a dealer has in stock. It is because of the mis-information people get from 3rd party sites such as edmunds. There is also advertising fund money applied to the invoice that is not shown on the window sticker.

 

As for your car, here is one with the same MSRP $52,760

 

Actual invoice is $48,110.20

 

As you can see, your math is way off!

 

Again, this is why Ford shows what invoice is right on their web site in some regions.

[ShelbyDude]

So as you can see dealers are not making very much money on a 45000-55000 dollar car at msrp!!

less than 9%

which on a precentage basis is way less than wal mart and other stores makes on all the trash they sell

 

 

Yes, and that 9% is just GROSS mark-up where ALL expenses have to be paid from that 9%.

 

Salaries, commissions, payroll taxes, insurance, rent, utilities, etc, etc, etc.

[Getts]

Gas tax and dest IS added to the invoice cost.

 

This is why in some regions Ford shows what the dealer invoice is on every car a dealer has in stock. It is because of the mis-information people get from 3rd party sites such as edmunds. There is also advertising fund money applied to the invoice that is not shown on the window sticker.

 

As for your car, here is one with the same MSRP $52,760

 

Actual invoice is $48,110.20

 

As you can see, your math is way off!

 

Again, this is why Ford shows what invoice is right on their web site in some regions.

 

Thanks. Are the numbers that I got from Edmunds that pertain to the invoice for options and base price off too?

[ShelbyDude]

Thanks. Are the numbers that I got from Edmunds that pertain to the invoice for options and base price off too?

 

 

MSRP $52,760

 

Base Price MSRP $46,755 ..... Invoice $42,192

 

Gas G/Tax MSRP $1,300 ....... Invoice $1,300

 

Sat. Radio MSRP $195 ........... Invoice $170

 

HID Headlamps MSRP $525 .... Invoice $457

 

Red Stripe Pkg MSRP $1,650 ... Invoice $1,436

 

Shaker 1000 MSRP $1,295 ...... Invoice $1,127

 

Ambient Lighting MSRP $295 ... Invoice $257

 

Total Options MSRP $5,260 ..... Invoice $4,747

 

Total Vehicle & Options MSRP $52,015 ... Invoice $46,939

 

Dest & Del MSRP $745 ......................Invoice $745

 

Total For Vehicle $52,760

 

02 US GAL FUEL CHARGE ..............Invoice $6.20 (ford charges to invoice for the gas they put in the tank)

 

FDAF Assessment ...................... Invoice $420

 

Total MSRP $52,760 .................. Total Invoice $48,110.20

 

 

MSRP $52,760 - Invoice $48,110.20 = $4,649.80 Dealer GROSS mark up.

 

$4,649.80 groos mark up - Approx $361 month floor plan cost, Advertising, Insurance, Salaries, Commissions, Utilities, Rent, Maintenance, Medical, Supplies, etc, etc, etc, = Dealer gross profit before taxes.

 

Not very much to work with by only having 9.65% mark up where all expenses have to be paid from that. There should be enough mark up to leave a dealer with 10% profit AFTER all expenses are paid. Not less than 10% mark up to cover all expenses leaving anything left out of that as a profit.

 

This is why MOST new car sales result in NET LOSSES by the time they are sold. This is WHY so many dealers are going out of business. This is WHY an average of 60 Ford stores alone have been closing each month. You just can't stay in business when losing money. Eventually you run out of capital and go broke!

 

Only in the car business where the average consumer actually pays LESS for the vehicle than the dealer actually pays for it!

 

Example, Invoice is $30K. Dealer sells for say, $300 over invoice. Customer gets $3,000 Rebate. Customer pays $27,300.....Dealer actually paid $30K. Dealer made a $300 GROSS mark up over cost. Deduct all expenses, dealer LOST money after expenses! Multiply that by two - three hundred vehicles per year! It adds up to HUGE LOSSES!

 

 

The a car like the GT500 comes along that everyone wants a dealers are getting $10K - $20K over MSRP. Sure, they made a huge profit off that ONE car, but after adding in their HUGE LOSSES from all the other cars sold, that nice profit made off that one car they got for the year is gone and doesn't cover near the total losses they had on all new car sales.

 

Personally, I don't understand why any dealer would even want a new car franchise! This is why a lot of them are dumping their new car franchise and going strictly used! There just isn't any money in new car sales!

[esc]

You forgot to mention "hold back"!

[ShelbyDude]

You forgot to mention "hold back"!

 

 

You mean the money that is pretty much eaten up in floorplan expense before the car ever arrives at the dealership?

 

The floorplan clock starts ticking from the time the dealer invoiced on the car. The dealer is invoiced about a week before the car is even built!

 

So by the time the car gets here it has been two months since being invoiced! That is two months of floorplan expense gone already!

 

Yeah, dealers are getting rich off the holdback! LOL

 

At the end of the day and when you add it all up minus expenses, dealers are losing money on new car sales! Period!

 

At our dealership it COST us $26,000 per DAY just to open the doors!

 

So how many new vehicles at what amount of gross profit would it take to sell and cover $26,000 per DAY???

 

Sure, other departments make money. Service, parts, body shop, USED car sales. They all make money where the NEW car department LOSES BIG money! Is it right that the new car department should be supported from the profits made from other departments just to stay in business??? That is what is happening. This is why you never see just a new car dealership without a service and parts department. They would be broke within the first month!

 

I also didn't mention a lot of expenses involved, which was the reason for etc, etc. etc.

[Getts]

MSRP $52,760

 

Base Price MSRP $46,755 ..... Invoice $42,192

 

Gas G/Tax MSRP $1,300 ....... Invoice $1,300

 

Sat. Radio MSRP $195 ........... Invoice $170

 

HID Headlamps MSRP $525 .... Invoice $457

 

Red Stripe Pkg MSRP $1,650 ... Invoice $1,436

 

Shaker 1000 MSRP $1,295 ...... Invoice $1,127

 

Ambient Lighting MSRP $295 ... Invoice $257

 

Total Options MSRP $5,260 ..... Invoice $4,747

 

Total Vehicle & Options MSRP $52,015 ... Invoice $46,939

 

Dest & Del MSRP $745 ......................Invoice $745

 

Total For Vehicle $52,760

 

02 US GAL FUEL CHARGE ..............Invoice $6.20 (ford charges to invoice for the gas they put in the tank)

 

FDAF Assessment ...................... Invoice $420

 

Total MSRP $52,760 .................. Total Invoice $48,110.20

 

 

MSRP $52,760 - Invoice $48,110.20 = $4,649.80 Dealer GROSS mark up.

 

$4,649.80 groos mark up - Approx $361 month floor plan cost, Advertising, Insurance, Salaries, Commissions, Utilities, Rent, Maintenance, Medical, Supplies, etc, etc, etc, = Dealer gross profit before taxes.

 

Not very much to work with by only having 9.65% mark up where all expenses have to be paid from that. There should be enough mark up to leave a dealer with 10% profit AFTER all expenses are paid. Not less than 10% mark up to cover all expenses leaving anything left out of that as a profit.

 

This is why MOST new car sales result in NET LOSSES by the time they are sold. This is WHY so many dealers are going out of business. This is WHY an average of 60 Ford stores alone have been closing each month. You just can't stay in business when losing money. Eventually you run out of capital and go broke!

 

Only in the car business where the average consumer actually pays LESS for the vehicle than the dealer actually pays for it!

 

Example, Invoice is $30K. Dealer sells for say, $300 over invoice. Customer gets $3,000 Rebate. Customer pays $27,300.....Dealer actually paid $30K. Dealer made a $300 GROSS mark up over cost. Deduct all expenses, dealer LOST money after expenses! Multiply that by two - three hundred vehicles per year! It adds up to HUGE LOSSES!

 

 

The a car like the GT500 comes along that everyone wants a dealers are getting $10K - $20K over MSRP. Sure, they made a huge profit off that ONE car, but after adding in their HUGE LOSSES from all the other cars sold, that nice profit made off that one car they got for the year is gone and doesn't cover near the total losses they had on all new car sales.

 

Personally, I don't understand why any dealer would even want a new car franchise! This is why a lot of them are dumping their new car franchise and going strictly used! There just isn't any money in new car sales!

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I appreciate it. Do you work for Ford?

[ShelbyDude]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I appreciate it. Do you work for Ford?

 

 

Ford Dealer

[Getts]

Ford Dealer

 

Yeah, thanks. Saw it in your previous post after I posted. Thanks again.

[2112]

You mean the money that is pretty much eaten up in floorplan expense before the car ever arrives at the dealership?

 

The floorplan clock starts ticking from the time the dealer invoiced on the car. The dealer is invoiced about a week before the car is even built!

 

So by the time the car gets here it has been two months since being invoiced! That is two months of floorplan expense gone already!

 

Yeah, dealers are getting rich off the holdback! LOL

 

At the end of the day and when you add it all up minus expenses, dealers are losing money on new car sales! Period!

 

At our dealership it COST us $26,000 per DAY just to open the doors!

 

So how many new vehicles at what amount of gross profit would it take to sell and cover $26,000 per DAY???

 

Sure, other departments make money. Service, parts, body shop, USED car sales. They all make money where the NEW car department LOSES BIG money! Is it right that the new car department should be supported from the profits made from other departments just to stay in business??? That is what is happening. This is why you never see just a new car dealership without a service and parts department. They would be broke within the first month!

 

I also didn't mention a lot of expenses involved, which was the reason for etc, etc. etc.

 

This sounds like a good argument not to have a ADM and get those the vehicles moved!

 

Dealers in our area are some of the wealthiest people in the community (god love em) and I am not offended by that, but I am always mystified by the "we are going broke selling new rigs" statement. To me, that indicates a bad business model. I personally know a Honda dealer and he won't make this claim. For him, selling new vehicles is the equivalent of owning a money printing press.

[DubbsFaris]

I dont know about that Shelbydude...

 

I mean, Red McCombs here in SanAntonio has done so well he has owned the Spurs and the Vikings...he must be doing okay!

He made the Forbes list at net worth 3 Billion last year...

 

That is alot of zeroes......

 

Troy Aikman made more money in his three dealerships then he made in football according to him, and

I know John Elway has his dealerships in CO.

 

These are just the dealers I happen to know...I have met David McDavid in the Dallas and Houston area, and he was buying a 30k custom door and a 45k custom bed at the time, so I think he is doing just fine too.

 

Maybe you are doing something wrong..

 

In all honesty- If I am informed correctly there are other moneys that get filtered back to the dealers, and dont forget those wonderful points that are added to the financing so the dealer can make money there too!

 

I know of one instance where a salesman added 2 points to the financing on a 6 yr loan of 58k f-350. What is that, like 15k on one truck just in financing...poor guy- if a salesman knows you really want a car he has(or she) there could be predatory actions coming about...

 

I have just refinanced my house and the lender switched the hud on me at the closing. I recognized it and threatened to sue for fraud...They were gonna take an extra 10k out of me....just for processing the loan. They ended up giving me an extra 1/4 point less to make up for it in my APR. :happy feet:

 

Word of advice- APR is not always given. A lending rate with discount points is not the same as an APR. They can hide money on you!

[frydguy79]

This sounds like a good argument not to have a ADM and get those the vehicles moved!

 

Dealers in our area are some of the wealthiest people in the community (god love em) and I am not offended by that, but I am always mystified by the "we are going broke selling new rigs" statement. To me, that indicates a bad business model. I personally know a Honda dealer and he won't make this claim. For him, selling new vehicles is the equivalent of owning a money printing press.

how many hondas are bought at invoice?? i'll bet not many!!! the japs give you more margin in their junk then the domestics and there are fewer imported stores around so they DO NOT discount as much as the domestics so they are making more money per car sold!!

go and try to buy one at invoice and watch them laugh at you

 

And most people do not realize that most of the time when dealers do a dealer trade they do not get the hold back it usually stays with the dealer that ordered it in so there is even less money made on a sell!! and hold back on a gt500 is around $ 1330 ballpark depends on options and models

 

and if you go about it right most good dealers will tell you how much profit they made on your purchase!

but most people think we are making a killing and it is just not so

so remember it does take some money to be here the next time you need a different vehicle or you need that one you bought from the guy down the road serviced

[2112]

how many hondas are bought at invoice?? i'll bet not many!!! the japs give you more margin in their junk then the domestics and there are fewer imported stores around so they DO NOT discount as much as the domestics so they are making more money per car sold!!

go and try to buy one at invoice and watch them laugh at you

 

I don't own any Japanese junk, so any anger towards me on that is wasted.

 

Yeah, they don't sell at invoice AND, they don't have ADMs.

 

Sorry my friend but I don't have any sympathy here. It is kinda like the contractors in my area that are crying about the construction downturn after gouging the living crap out of everyone for the last 10 years. You can be angry or you can develop a loyal clientèle built on quality of service.

 

Talk to the F-series guys (which I have bought 8 new) and they will tell you their dealers, and this includes the service department, are the reason they are switching to Dodge or Toyota.

 

Yep, I am sorry, no sympathy. Oh yeah, I bleed Ford blue when cut so I am not your enemy. (Even when my $50K powerstroke dies on the side of the road for the 4th time).