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SAAC sues Caroll Shelby


mrshelby2

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The Hearts of Men!

 

 

:shift:

 

 

 

 

 

I've sat her for an hour reading this entire series of posts! Yikes!

 

 

The strangest thing happened to me two weeks ago. I attended my first regional SAAC meeting. Great group of guys/gals. THEN I was invited to share my wonderful experience of attending the 85th Birthday Bash of Mr. Shelby!

 

I even brought along a commemorative baseball cap, a 1/64th die cast car....and a couple membership application kits to Team Shelby!

 

:doh:

 

Oh my! Let's just say that the ensuing conversation around the large table got a little "passionate!" All I could say was, "well, I'm a Shelby newbie. I briefly shook hands with Amy B., and I think that the future of SAI is in great hands. For those who have not visited SAI's place in Vegas - you really have to make plans to go! New Shelby's and a museum of awesome vintage Shelby's and Cobra cars!"

 

Then I went and hid in the corner until the meeting concluded.

 

Again, these guys/gals are a great bunch! And after listening to several comments/opinions, I came to realize that they were quite uninformed on many fronts. They (this particular regional group of SAAC) are also wondering if they will have to cease meeting...in fear that holding an "SAAC" meeting may be illegal (due to the pending legal case).....etc. etc.

 

I find it a shame, really. I sit and wonder if there is ANYTHING SAI and Amy could possibly do to extend an olive branch to the many regional/local "chapters" - but after reading tonight and thinking on the matter - I suppose this situation has to work itself out over time.

 

I can tell you however that several members of this SAAC chapter have joined Team Shelby! This is very important: To this, I believe it imperative that we Team Shelby members make every effort to behave like professionals/adults. That we strive to be welcoming, inviting, friendly and kind.

 

We owe it to Mr. Shelby. And I think we owe it to Amy and her team as they struggle through these times.

 

After all.....Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

 

The Shadow Knows!

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.....hey! a new name/package possibility? "The 2009 Shelby Shadow GT350" - sounds sort of "stealth-like" don't ya think!

 

 

Great post!!!!!! It is a shame and many members have no clue because most regional have very little to do with the headquarters. I told the LA group that they can uses the name and logo, and CSL has opened that up to all regions. The SAAC members as with Team Shelby members are in the Middle. We all just need to focus on our groups and the cars and when and if this is settled it will be settled by a half dozen people .

There are many team Shelby Members who came to the birthday, we will never make them choose. I am friends with many SAAC people, we don't talk about this, we talk about the birthday, the events, the cars.

 

Guys, keep this on a short leash please do not be nasty disrespectable etc, I do not want this eroding further.

 

Amy

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Hey Grabber, when I typed www.SAACFORUMS.com in like you advised, it redirects me to TEAMSHELBY.com !! for a bunch of people claiming that they are not in this, why on February 2nd, 2008 did TEAM SHELBY site owners Robert and Sharon Warner Buy the domain name www.SAACFORUMS.com and then make a redirection to TEAMSHELBY.com ?? seems like they enjoy the Hate by giving people more reasons to hate them! Contrary to popular belief around here, SAAC has stated numerous times that TEAM SHELBY Members are not their enemy[/color]. they are unhappy with CARROLL and a few folks that work for him. Maybe Robert and Sharon Warner felt it necessary to be added to the list of the "Disliked by SAAC" crowd so they could feel included when in the company of the esteemed few that there reallly are. [/size]

 

 

Hey.... DW/David you are upsetting my 60 year old sense of good behavior .... you are not a Team Shelby Member ...I belong to SAAC, SVTOA, SCMC and Team Shelby ....why are you wasting everybody's time with your ratings ... now get this straight... one time ...stop, you are accountable for your actions.

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A guy with a '68 fastback can't be wrong (even if it isn't a GT 350 / 500). Someone earlier noted that most SAAC members are probably like most TS members and are really not interested in the blame game. Most of the nastiness on the various forums comes from a select few who claim to speak for "all SAAC members." I'm glad to see that you've been able to connect with some of the more level-headed masses who aren't interested in who is suing who over what and probably think that many of the insulting comments directed at Shelby or SAI are childish and unproductive.

 

 

Hey Benzito!

 

I'm originally from Portland (still technically a resident of Portland) and have purchased my two Shelby's from Dick Hannah Ford on Broadway - however they have just closed their doors! Too bad.

 

I've had my design studio in Portland for many years (New York City prior to then) and opened a branch office in Vancouver, BC about 7 years ago and later purchased a small sign manufacturing company in BC. 18 months ago I married a Canadian with two girls - so we have found that it makes most sense for me to move up to Canada!

 

I still travel back and forth between offices, although I'm going to wind things down in Portland and staff-up our BC offices. However I still plan to be in Portland once a month. When the weather is decent, I drive my SGT!

 

We'll have to trade information and hook up for coffee one of these nice Spring days! I'll also keep you posted on some of the amazing Show & Shines - and perhaps you can do the same for me in the Portland Metro area.

 

Sorry everyone...this may have made for a better PM - but in efforts to display that we are all "friendly" folks over here at TeamShelby....I thought I'd spread my own positive message to a fellow TS Member!

 

....Not knowing Benzito yet doesn't really matter much - after all, he too has a 68 Mustang in his corral!!!

 

Keep in touch Benzito!

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Kill 'em with kindness!

 

+1 ...

 

 

This conflict is about ownership and use of assets, not about SAAC members or Team Shelby members in any sense except for the very few who may also be 'SAAC' principles under the licensing agreement and/or applicable law.

 

The way I figure it, about 99.9% of SAAC members are fellow enthusiasts who have absolutely nothing to do with the legal conflict and are most welcomed in Team Shelby too.

 

Hopefully as more and more venture here they'll see what a great community of enthusiasts this is and will choose to stay. There's so much many of us can learn from them about the awesome early Cobras and that they can learn about the modern Shelbys ...truly a win-win, imo, for everyone who chooses to be involved.

 

The old movie Yours, Mine And Ours comes to mind. <lol> It will take time but, as in the movie, I suspect we will all come to respect each other for what we are as inividuals and as part of this Shelby family.

 

WELCOME!!!

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+1 ...

 

 

This conflict is about ownership and use of assets, not about SAAC members or Team Shelby members in any sense except for the very few who may also be 'SAAC' principles under the licensing agreement and/or applicable law.

 

The way I figure it, about 99.9% of SAAC members are fellow enthusiasts who have absolutely nothing to do with the legal conflict and are most welcomed in Team Shelby too.

 

Hopefully as more and more venture here they'll see what a great community of enthusiasts this is and will choose to stay. There's so much many of us can learn from them about the awesome early Cobras and that they can learn about the modern Shelbys ...truly a win-win, imo, for everyone who chooses to be involved.

 

The old movie Yours, Mine And Ours comes to mind. <lol> It will take time but, as in the movie, I suspect we will all come to respect each other for what we are as inividuals and as part of this Shelby family.

 

WELCOME!!!

 

Very good post, the original Your's, Mine and Ours is one of my favorite shows. 1+

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Have I told yall that im getting a Super Snake??? Yup, hopefully pretty soon. This is the place we talk about Shelby Mustangs? OK it is. the Super Snake is red and i cant wait to get it.

OK OK how about this.. i have a friend that just went to look at a 67 GT500 to buy. come to find out the folks had ANOTHER GT500 just like the first. if that DONT get your attention. while hes there he sees a 66 7 Litre galaxie. Guess what engine was in it....Im waiting..... NOPE

its a CAMMER!!! i real life 427 SOHC in a 7 Litre galaxie convertible. Man now thats talking about cars. i have pictures of the Cammer. truely found in a BARN. This stuff still happens. he bought both the GT500s and the galaxie.

michael morris

 

Hows that about talking about cars GUYS!!!!

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Have I told yall that im getting a Super Snake??? Yup, hopefully pretty soon. This is the place we talk about Shelby Mustangs? OK it is. the Super Snake is red and i cant wait to get it.

OK OK how about this.. i have a friend that just went to look at a 67 GT500 to buy. come to find out the folks had ANOTHER GT500 just like the first. if that DONT get your attention. while hes there he sees a 66 7 Litre galaxie. Guess what engine was in it....Im waiting..... NOPE

its a CAMMER!!! i real life 427 SOHC in a 7 Litre galaxie convertible. Man now thats talking about cars. i have pictures of the Cammer. truely found in a BARN. This stuff still happens. he bought both the GT500s and the galaxie.

michael morris

 

Hows that about talking about cars GUYS!!!!

 

Kinda like National Treasure, eh? What a find... Gonna start his own museum? He ought to bring the the GT500's to the Boulder (Gunbarrell) Shelby museum. How much restoration do they need? Probably could be another topic!

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Have I told yall that im getting a Super Snake??? Yup, hopefully pretty soon. This is the place we talk about Shelby Mustangs? OK it is. the Super Snake is red and i cant wait to get it.

OK OK how about this.. i have a friend that just went to look at a 67 GT500 to buy. come to find out the folks had ANOTHER GT500 just like the first. if that DONT get your attention. while hes there he sees a 66 7 Litre galaxie. Guess what engine was in it....Im waiting..... NOPE

its a CAMMER!!! i real life 427 SOHC in a 7 Litre galaxie convertible. Man now thats talking about cars. i have pictures of the Cammer. truely found in a BARN. This stuff still happens. he bought both the GT500s and the galaxie.

michael morris

 

Hows that about talking about cars GUYS!!!!

 

Maybe we can get the name of this thread changed to Team Shelby welcomes SAAC members!!!

 

---

 

Hey, Michael! That is awesome!!!! The Cammer must have been swapped into that car? Or do you think is one of the NASCAR homologation camers? Man, what a FIND!!!!

 

Can you post some of the pics? That worth a thread all to itself!!!

 

---

 

Which reminds me of another thing... we need a forum for this kind of discussion. It's Automotive/Tech Stuff but just not specifically Shelby related. And putting it in "off-topic" means ther's no way to keep it on-subject. I mentioned this to Sharon a while ago and she was going to talk to Robert but I know how busy they are so I haven't brought it up again.

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I've read the posts on this thread. Heres my take, like it or not, ban me or whatever.

 

It looks like this site really does not want the subject of the "SAAC lawsuit" discussed under the guise of "hey, its none of our business" and "we're just about the cars". Its also not "beating a dead horse" and if you think it is you just don't understand the importance of this issue to the hobby.

 

This lawsuit, on both sides in my opinion is damaging the hobby and its good will. Just check out this months Car & Driver.

 

This lawsuit is about you and the hobby. If you think it doesn't or won't affect you you are asleep at the wheel.

 

I'm not pro SAAC or pro Team Shelby in this dispute. I'm pro hobby and preserving the hobby, the value of these automobiles, promoting the hobby and perserving a clubs ability to carry on its good work that it has been doing for the hobby for over 33 years.

 

While I don't condone any nasty vitriol on either site SAAC is not all wrong in their position either. From what I understand the Team Shelby position will for all practical purposes eliminate SAAC. It will prevent them from using logos or anything related to Cobra and Shelby. In essence it appears that the goal is to eliminate SAAC leaving Team Shelby standing alone as the only official club for all things Shelby in the universe.

 

I'm not sure whether legally CS has the right to do this after so many years of allowing SAAC the use of Shelby logos, names of cars etc.., but even assuming he does legally is it the right thing to do? I don't believe so for many reasons. I have been a stauch CS/SAI supporter for many years and supported CS/SAI agasint the CS detractors on Club Cobra for years, basically many times standing alone doing so. But I can't support an effort to eliminate SAAC and what CS/CSL seeks in his lawsuit will effectively eliminate SAAC and destroy future SAAC registrys.

 

While CS argues that SAAC has failed to abide by a licensing agreement, and maybe thats so, there are ways to resolve this problem short of destroying the club which will be detrimental to many enthusiasts and the hobby.

 

This site appears devoted to mostly the new Shelby Mustangs. Thats fine but the history of Shelby, SAI and the historical cars are very important. Without them the new cars would and will have less meaning and value. Think about it. Without the Cobra, which is where it all started and where the legend of CS started, would the new Mustangs really mean the same today? No way.

 

SAAC for over 30 years has kept the Shelby flame alive, promoted the hobby, attracted many into the hobby, has cataloged the genuine Shelbys and Cobras, kept track of them therefore preserving their value making it difficult for others to manufacture fake clones and pass them off thus polluting the gene pool so to speak. Without SAAC I doubt there would be much of hobby today and it certainly wouldn't be what it is. SAAC has been for over 30 years the official Cobra/Shelby authority and they have many many very knowledgable members as to all things Shelby and Shelby history.

 

There are thousands of SAAC members, many of whom are owners of original Cobras and vintage Shelby mustangs. SAAC conventions attract thousands of Shelby enthusiasts. The old guard so to speak are die hard SAAC enthusiasts and members. They are important to the hobby. Destroying their club is not right. While Team Shelby may protest they are not seeking to destroy SAAC just read the legal papers as to the relief requested and see if you can conclude anything else. Also, why was there a grab by Team Shelby of the IP address of SAACS.com? Why was this needed? Hmmm. Makes me wonder. Just calling it like it is.

 

Destroying SAAC and their regsitry will be a terrible blow to the hobby and I believe diminish it and the value of all Shelby cars old and new. Looking to destroy SAAC is not the way to lure their members to join Team Shelby. You need to understand it from their perspective also.

 

Why must Team Shelby be the only club left standing? Why can't both co-exist. Why can't an agreement be worked out protecting CS's rights while allowing SAAC to continue its activities with the right to use the words Cobra, Shelby etc..and related logos under a proper licensing agreement? Is any effort going to be made in this regard I'd love to know and if not why not?

 

So for those here that say that this dispute is none of your business, you just don't get it. It is more then you understand if you love the hobby and care about it.

 

Let both Clubs exist and carry on with appropriate protections for any of CSL rights while allowing SAAC to continue its good work under a fair license agreement so it can continue their good work as they have over past 30 years to promote Shelby, his cars, his legend and the hobby.

 

While CS has stated this lawsuit is part of his effort to perserve his legacy I just don't understand how destroying a club that was and has been recognized as an authority on all things Shelby, has helped to promote all things Shelby, their value and taking away this club from thousands of its Shelby fans will be "promoting his legacy". Again, read this months Car & Driver.

 

You have a say too and have a right to voice your opinion. This is mine.

 

Think about it.

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I think an important point that everyone seems to overlook is this: SAAC has made it clear that they feel that entity is the "right" club to preserve the integrity of the earlier cars (Cobras and early Mustangs). If that is how most of their membership (and the public feels), I hardly see a change in name or a different licensing arrangement changing that perception. The idea that Team Shelby would "destroy" SAAC is not very likely if the first club produces a quality product, is welcoming to newcomers, and has the necessary support system. If it doesn't, and tries to alienate current and prospective members, I feel no sympathy (the same would apply if TS ignored early car owners and then complained that early car members weren't interested in joining).

 

The thing that I find most interesting is that, whether you agree with his position or not, Carroll Shelby has advocated for exactly the things that many SAAC members have been complaining about for many years: A website, web forums, regularly produced and reliable newsletter, more inclusion / less exclusivity. SAAC did a good thing by finally putting up a forum, even though it is now dominated by CS-haters. That will presumably pass as people tire of talking about the same old same old, just as the TS forums had their go at the topic and now THIS is pretty much the only active thread on the issue.

 

If, at the end of this whole process, both clubs continue to serve their membership and meet those members' expectations, what is the harm? So what is "SAAC" is no longer known as associated with "Shelby." The people who care will migrate to one or the other, or both. No harm in playing both sides of the field to gain access to that many more events, right? Or is that "treason" as some SAAC higher-ups would like you to believe?

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Its hard to produce a "quality product" or carry on your club business if you can't utter the words Cobra, Shelby and logos.

 

 

Your right, but remember, CSL(Carroll Shelby Licensing) automatically renewed the license in 07, it was not renewed for 08. Not cancelled

 

 

SAI (Shelby Automobiles Inc.)started Team Shelby to promote and support the new cars, welcome the old cars and all Mustang and Ford enthusiasts, all Shelby enthusiasts(Ford Shelby's, dodge shelby's, Series 1, Tiger, etc). This is a place where mustang, cobra, dodge, tiger, ford GT, can all get together . Where they can all get on the track together. Team Shelby was in motion long before this happened. The magazine, the website, the events, etc, took more then a year to even get started. We are Shelby and we should support all the Shelby groups. SAAC would like to make this about Team Shelby but it's not. We have partnered with many great groups, the Shelby Dodge owners came to Carroll's birthday, we will come to their events, the Ford GT guys want us to do something with them, the SVT guys in Virgina , same thing. We aren't destroying anyone. Unfortunately the SAAC group is doing that to themselves.

 

 

It's about the issues Carroll had that were never dealt with , period. He didn't like the one late newsletter, he didn't like the way the events were done, he wanted the members to have more., like Benzito posted above. He wanted them to be online, well they are now online. Why did they never respond when they got the CSL letters?, This is what amazes me personally. They said they didn't have to, it was a hand shake deal. Well if that is true and I was the one who got those letters from a corporate entity I would have called Carroll personally and said "what up with this" ? I wouldn't have ignored the legal arm of his company representing him. These guys know Carroll for forty + years, they knew he was unhappy and chose to ignore him, why?

 

This is how I personally feel, This has caused issues on all sides, certainly not fun for me.but that said, we support Carroll 100%, he is right, it's his name and his right to have it represented the way he wants. SAAC uses that name by license, by handshake, by friendship with Carroll by whatever they they are saying, he still deserved a response. And legally there is a license, signed by the owners. Well they have responded by posting and going public, not a choice I would have made. Carroll has responded as well.

 

I really try not to respond in a personal way, but it is getting harder when you are continually trashed and made fun off, it is almost impossible. Such childish and ugly behavior, I actually feel bad for those who who have to read that redoric. We will not do the same here This issue will not be resolved here. It is a legal issue now. This is a Shelby site and there is a lot we can not say, I probably already say too much. and we want to keep a focus on the business at hand ............the cars.

 

People will make their choices regardless of anything said on this site or any other site. you initial post was well written , we will never delete a well written post

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Your right, but remember, CSL(Carroll Shelby Licensing) automatically renewed the license in 07, it was not renewed for 08. Not cancelled

 

 

SAI (Shelby Automobiles Inc.)started Team Shelby to promote and support the new cars, welcome the old cars and all Mustang and Ford enthusiasts, all Shelby enthusiasts(Ford Shelby's, dodge shelby's, Series 1, Tiger, etc). This is a place where mustang, cobra, dodge, tiger, ford GT, can all get together . Where they can all get on the track together. Team Shelby was in motion long before this happened. The magazine, the website, the events, etc, took more then a year to even get started. We are Shelby and we should support all the Shelby groups. SAAC would like to make this about Team Shelby but it's not. We have partnered with many great groups, the Shelby Dodge owners came to Carroll's birthday, we will come to their events, the Ford Gt guys want us to do something with them, the SVT guys in Virgina , same thing. We aren't destroying anyone. Unfortunatelythe SAAC group is doing that to themselves.

 

 

It's about the issues Carroll had that were never dealt with , period. He didn't like the one late newsletter, he didn't like the way the events were done, he wanted the members to have more. He wanted them to be online, well they are now online. Why did they never respond when they got the CSL letters?, This is what amazes me personally. They said they didn't have to, it was a hand shake deal. Well if that is true and I was the one who got those letters from a corporate entity I would have called Carroll personally and said "what up with this" ? I wouldn't have ignored the legal arm of his company representing him. These guys know Carroll for forty + years, they knew he was unhappy and chose to ignore him, why?

 

This is how I personally feel, This has caused issues on all sides, certainly not fun for me.but that said, we support Carroll 100%, he is right, it's his name and his right to have it represented the way he wants. SAAC uses that name by license, by handshake, by friendship with Carroll by whatever they they are saying, he still deserved a response. And legally there is a license, signed by the owners. Well they have responded by posting and going public, not a choice I would have made. Carroll has responded as well.

 

I really try not to respond in a personal way, but it is getting harder when you are continually trashed and made fun off, it is almost impossible. Such childish and ugly behavior, I actually feel bad for those who who have to read that redoric. We will not do the same here This issue will not be resolved here. It is a legal issue now. This is a Shelby siteand there is a lot we can not say, I probably already say too much. and we want to keep a focus on the business at hand the cars.

 

People will make their choices regardless of anything said on this site or any other site.your initial post was well written , we will never delete a well written post

 

Amen Amy!

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AMY I Know its hard for you to hold back but your a fighter & we all hope this will be behind us in the near future & we can all go on doing what we are here for the love of the cars & meeting alot of great & interesting people. Keep up the great work your doing .

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Having a vested interest in both vintage and contemporary Shelby’s, it is my hope that both organizations can co-exist and support each other. Obviously, we, the owners of these legendary vehicles will all benefit from a healthy TS & SAAC as they both bring valuable resources to the table.

 

If it’s really just about the cars, then I don’t understand how you could view this any other way.

 

Proud member of both, Team Shelby & Shelby American Automobile Club!!

 

1969ShelbyGT350ArrivesinCharlevo-5.jpg

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Amy: Personal attacks have no place in this. They are hurtful. I know having been the target of vicious personal attacks on Club Cobra in the past, primarily due to my defense of SAI/CS and the Continuation Cobras.

 

Cancelled or not renewed. Thats semantics.

 

So...if CS didn't like the way events were done, didn't like the newsletter, wanted them on line (they are now), wanted members to have more, wanted himself represented in a certain way (how?) why does that merit or justify destroying a club with thousands of loyal members especially if those deficencies can be rectified why not let them co-exist for the benefit of all enthusiasts? This just doesn't seem to add up to reasons justifying the destruction of a 30 year old fan based private club. Lets not kid each other. If Team Shelby gets the relief it seeks in its papers SAAC is crippled and the registry is probably done. That does no one any good.

 

So now everybody knows everybody means business now that lawsuits are flying.

 

Would CSL be willing to live with a fair and enforcable licensing agreement for the benefit of enthusiasts? Yes or No?

 

Will more good come from crippling SAAC then harm?

 

The business at hand is not just the cars. Its also the enthusiasts and this issue affects all enthusiasts tremendously.

 

The bottom line it seems to me is that SAAC whats to be able to continue with the good work they have done. No one can deny the fact they have done good work for the hobbby. It seems to me Team Shelby wants to promote itself and develope its business. SAAC and Team Shelby need not be mutually exclusive with only one surviving at the expense of the other.

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Would CSL be willing to live with a fair and enforcable licensing agreement for the benefit of enthusiasts? Yes or No?

 

 

CSX ~ Your question is being posed in the wrong Forum. What Amy & TS have repeatedly told ALL members is... this is a legal matter, to be decided in the courts and by the principals involved.

 

That is where Your question will be answered...

 

So, Yes, I'm pretty certain IT is a "dead horse issue", as far as most participants in this Forum are concerned.

 

 

Keith

 

And, if You really want to do "good work" for the hobby and enthusiasts, check out the RUFSTANG link in the Off Topic Forum.

The RUFSTANG

Here's a cause for ALL Enthusiasts to really get behind... a fellow member and his family has faced some really tough times over the last couple of years. This Forum has been supporting them with Encouragement, Prayers, Medical Advice, and even personal visits.

Now WE are trying to help them with financial needs... he is at the point of having to sell his car, but WE can help prevent that.

I encourage You to read it, and see the response of THIS Community... to a truly important issue.

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Amy: Personal attacks have no place in this. They are hurtful. I know having been the target of vicious personal attacks on Club Cobra in the past, primarily due to my defense of SAI/CS and the Continuation Cobras.

 

Cancelled or not renewed. Thats semantics.

 

Not really. You EARN renewal by COMPLYING with the agreement's terms -- that seems like business 101 and simply was not done reliably, if EVER -- was it? Was the annual fee paid each year? Were financial statements provided each year? Were ANY terms of the agreement EVER met in any reliable or conscientious manner? How rude, defiant and arrogant that seems.

 

So...if CS didn't like the way events were done, didn't like the newsletter, wanted them on line (they are now), wanted members to have more, wanted himself represented in a certain way (how?) why does that merit or justify destroying a club with thousands of loyal members especially if those deficencies can be rectified why not let them co-exist for the benefit of all enthusiasts? This just doesn't seem to add up to reasons justifying the destruction of a 30 year old fan based private club. Lets not kid each other. If Team Shelby gets the relief it seeks in its papers SAAC is crippled and the registry is probably done. That does no one any good.

 

Maybe those SAAC 'offficials' should have considered the possible effects of their apparent stubbonness, arrogance, and intransigence years ago. The compliance train has apparently now left the station in CS's mind and the lawsuit clearly reflects that, imo. To think otherwise is to be in total denial, imo. Why in heck should that change? Once you determine you have a non-compliance that isn't being correctedit must be removed, imo. To do otherwise is irresponsible to your business. Preventing SAAC from continuing to abuse Sheby's assets through non-compliance would seem essential, not spiteful, imo.

 

So now everybody knows everybody means business now that lawsuits are flying.

 

Good! It's about time, is it not?

Would CSL be willing to live with a fair and enforcable licensing agreement for the benefit of enthusiasts? Yes or No?

 

Will more good come from crippling SAAC then harm?

 

REMOVED by Amy... to how you would like your assets to be used ....to how you would like your name and legacy to be positioned ...to how you would like owners of your products to be treated? SAAC (the principles, not the 99.9% of club members) had *YEARS* of opportuniity to comply with a signed 'sweetheart' licensing agreement and apparently chose to ignore it while supposedly claiming CS positioned it differently via some oral agreement (certainly everyone knows when you sign a contract it supercedes any prior verbal agreements!) -- while being intransigent to CS's wishes. Would all this not pi$$ you off if you were CS?

 

The business at hand is not just the cars. Its also the enthusiasts and this issue affects all enthusiasts tremendously.

 

The bottom line it seems to me is that SAAC whats to be able to continue with the good work they have done. No one can deny the fact they have done good work for the hobbby. It seems to me Team Shelby wants to promote itself and develope its business. SAAC and Team Shelby need not be mutually exclusive with only one surviving at the expense of the other.

 

SAAC *has* done a *lot* of really good work. And that work would be continuing today if not for what seems like a large dose of arrogance (public and rampant badmouthing), intransigence (to a signed contract and the will of the mark holders/owner) and ignorance (that such apparent abuses MUST eventually be stopped). For that, every SAAC member around the globe should be livid with the SAAC principles that, imo, so mishandled their corporate responsibilities to CS, the license-agreement, and thier club members that he is now forced to use the legal system to permanently rectify such behavior for the sake of his good name and related IP assets. That's my opinion.

 

What I see on various websites is the SAAC inner-circle actively fomenting CS-hatred, calling him names, denegrating him personally, mocking him in a mob-like bravado-filled defiant and arrogant manner -- not too smart, imo.

 

If it was me I would have fallen on my sword aat the first sign of CS's concern and asked CS what he wants done to make it right and then I would promptly and rigorously pursue those tasks above all others. Quite the opposite was done. It's WAY too late for redress now, imo.

 

If it was me I'd sooner go out of busines than to be associated with those who mock me. The other 99.9% of SAAC membership stand only to gain by this matter resolving itself in the courts. If SAAC (the for-profit corporate entity) can no longer use CS's name/marks that doesn't seem to prevent former-SAAC members from coming together, exchanging information, meeting, etc as in the past under some CS-approved entity, does it? After all, if it's about the cars and the owners, what does it matter if the SAAC corporate entity no longer can use CS' name and marks? Are there no other individuals on this planet capable of organizing a new framework in which all can carry-on? Wait! There is one! Approved by SC himself, no less! And he calls it Team Shelby! How does that hurt existing and future Shelby owners?

 

Oh, yeah, the registry! Hard to publish/sell it if you can't use Shelby's name/marks. Well, since the SAAC inner-circle is all about the cars and the owners they could make that information available to whatever framework/entity SC has designated if they choose to. If they chose not to, then it seems to me THEY are the ones not acting in the best interests of the cars and the owners. Is it really so hard to comprehend that maybe someone could have this view? I hope not, because I'm just a student of history here and not affiliated in any way with SAAC or Shelby or SAI. Are you?

 

My net: I don't buy your argument. It's specious and SAAC-self-serving, imo. The damage has been done by SAAC's apparent negligence and abdication of their corporate responsibilities relative to the license agreement, CS' wishes, and heretofore enduring goodwill.

 

I think you can either wave goodbye to those on the CS train *or* come on and jump aboard and help make Team Shelby the organization you'd like it to be for the benefit of all Shelby cars and enthusiasts. Why would CS ever again permit his name and IP aseets held hostage by any corporate entity unresponsive to his wishes? After all, it's not about those few individuals who foment CS hatred; it's about the cars and the owners and enthusiasts everywhere, right?

 

-Dan

 

<edit:> I removed the word malignancy -- maybe that's a bit harsh -- but the point is clear to me ...the intranigence, etc must be removed, imo, once it's clear it isn't being corrected voluntarily.

 

 

 

Dan

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Dan, I love the way you analyze situations. Its a shame that most SAAC members will never get a chance to see that perspective. I actually think SAAC could end up continuing, but only under new ownership, but I think the current owners are digging in and are willing to fight to the bitter end. They refuse to acknowledge that they do not hold the trump cards in this situation.

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Wow dave (86fastback)

 

Much thanks.................

 

I'm a non SAAC member, Shelby owner (over 30 years). I've been calmly reading posting on here as well as on saacforum.

 

To call SAAC a, and I'm quoting you here:

 

"malignancy"

 

thats is causing:

 

"damage of the overall organism..."

 

Pretty much says it all for me. For you to consider SAAC a malignacy is offensive me, and I'm quite sure it is to quite a few Shelby enthusists out here reading this as well.

 

This isn't about you, or SAAC, this is about where WE open our wallets. Keep in mind that I've donated thousands of dollars over the year to Carroll's heart fund. I've attended many SAAC conventions and enjoyed them ALL with no complaints.

 

Your outburst made me sick, and I can't see ever being involved with Team Shelby OR donating to Carroll's heat fund again.

 

ShelbyGuy

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Having a vested interest in both vintage and contemporary Shelby’s, it is my hope that both organizations can co-exist and support each other. Obviously, we, the owners of these legendary vehicles will all benefit from a healthy TS & SAAC as they both bring valuable resources to the table.

 

If it’s really just about the cars, then I don’t understand how you could view this any other way.

 

Proud member of both, Team Shelby & Shelby American Automobile Club!!

 

1969ShelbyGT350ArrivesinCharlevo-5.jpg

I hate to say it but according to SAAC those are not real Shelbys. Sudden
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Dan, I love the way you analyze situations. Its a shame that most SAAC members will never get a chance to see that perspective. I actually think SAAC could end up continuing, but only under new ownership, but I think the current owners are digging in and are willing to fight to the bitter end. They refuse to acknowledge that they do not hold the trump cards in this situation.

 

Amen, John! I think CS will only deal with a management team he feels he can trust. Once control of his IP assets is resolved, that should be straightforward, whether it's part of Team Shelby or a licensed 'independent' entity or ??? (just my thoughts -- I have no inside insight).

 

If I were CS I'd be really leary of any non-subsidiary for-profit organization ever having control of this again -- especially since 99.9% of the owners are in the various clubs for the cars, the enjoyment and the camaradarie of like-minded enthusiasts.

 

I hope it all comes together under the Team Shelby umbrella in some framework that makes any change essentially transparent at an enthusiast level. That will be the challenge vis-a-vis the registry info.

 

The physical book and it's format, etc, are likely the legal work product of SAAC (the Corp. -- dunno) either by explicit copyright filing or defacto protection, but I don't see that the actual data volunteered by Shelby, Ford, the owners, etc. over the years is the sole property of SAAC in any sense. What's different here is that, at some point, work was done on the registry with the benefit of CSLicensing enabling use of CS' IP assets in the collection process. Much of that work might have been impossible or in violation of CS IP assets lacking such licensing -- under a license agreement that appears to never have been met/satisfied. So while it's possible that no one can copy the "instance" of the registry, I think the registry data may be fair game if someone else (SAI/Team SHelby/???) wanted to recompile it at a vehicle-level in some other format or for some other purpose -- someone who has CS' explicit suppor, like a subsidiary, etc. It could then be put online for owners to flesh-in/update their specific information -- not unlike what Team Shelby has done on the Shelby site, but including all the known Ford and Shelby production info, registry data (if a court decides that) and that which owners/enthusiasts choose to voluntarily contribute about their cars, old and new. The sticky art, to my mind, is all the tech-specific data that SAAC has compiled but which may have been impossibly to legitmately solicit without benefit of CS' past support, both verbally and via the livense agreement. I suspect CS has intrinsic shared owership of such information for a variety of reasons impossible and/or inappropriate for discussion here.

 

Most folks don't realize that a copyright protects the "instance," not the idea -- even patents don't protect ideas; nothing does. Imitation is not only the sincerest form of flattery, it's also entirely legal. Copying the instance is what can't be done (all the notes i a song can be reused, just not in the exact same format <lol>). I'm no expert on this and I'm sure the IP legal-beagles will crawl thru such sticking points in painfull detail and a court will eventually render an explicit decision -- I think it has to go that far to be 'clear.' Just my opinion -- dunno what will be, but clearing all the asset ownership issues will ultimately benefit the enthusiasts, present and future, imo.

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