Fuel Octaine

[Johngfla@aol.com]

What type of fuel are we supposed to use? What fuel provides the SGT's with the best mileage?

[69dejavue]

Check inside the fuel door and there should be a sticker telling you to use Premium fuel, 91+ octane. Most of the country you can actually buy 93 octane and that will be the best for you. Out west you can usually only buy 91 octane so you are stuck with it. Your manual will also tell you that if you incur engine damage from using less than the required octane it will not be covered by warranty.

 

The reason for the requirement is the flash tune that SAI performs on your vehicle. The vehicle is tuned for a minimum of 91, anything less can cause pre-detonation (pinging). Good Luck

[sdear]

I stopped to get gas tonight and for the first time, I was at a pump that had FIVE levels of octane. I had not seen 91 in Florida ever, until tonight. I stuck with the 93 since that is all I have ever used.

 

There was a nickel raise for each octane lol.

[LuLu]

Check inside the fuel door and there should be a sticker telling you to use Premium fuel, 91+ octane. Most of the country you can actually buy 93 octane and that will be the best for you. Out west you can usually only buy 91 octane so you are stuck with it. Your manual will also tell you that if you incur engine damage from using less than the required octane it will not be covered by warranty.

 

The reason for the requirement is the flash tune that SAI performs on your vehicle. The vehicle is tuned for a minimum of 91, anything less can cause pre-detonation (pinging). Good Luck

 

+1, I completely agree. Detonation (pinging) is a slow death as it eats away at the top of the piston and it's Teflon coating, before it starts eating into the piston top itself. Thus, it can take a while for the Grim Reaper to arrive at your garage door, however, over the long haul, he will find you. Detonation isn't good, keep watch on custom tunes and overall engine temps. Slightly rich fuel mixture, and engine temps as cool as possible, is good. I suggest a 180 degree thermostat change if you're retuning from the base SGT tune.

 

Let me add that running hot (190 and above) and on low octane can also cause pre-ignition, and this is more immediate. Pre-ignition when the piston is at bottom dead center (BDC) is almost always immediately fatal. The lone "grim reaper" just turned into an eight man SWAT team? Only needs to happen once, and it's over.

 

MPG? I'm still on the stock SGT tune, and using 93 octane Citgo fuel. Over the last 4000 miles, my MPG average is 18 city, 23 highway. A lot depends on how much I hammer the power, and I've been as low as 15 city, and as high as 24 highway. I believe this MPG is consistent with the areodynamics and weight of the SGT, as well as the quality of fuel here in Chicago.

 

Hope this helps, carry on gents.

[autoplay]

LULU...you know that as fact,regarding the teflon coating on top of pistons?

 

Years ago in CAL,when they started outlawing Leaded gas,whenever I would have anything machined,I would have the valve guides teflon coated.

 

Does make sense to coat anything in the combustion chamber,or at least anything that is thin.

 

You also mentioned keepin engine cool. In that regards I was taught that too. If I recall,I was runnin a thermostat made for Hudsons,which opened at 140. Also,this was breathin at sea level. I forget if we were runnin em in a Ford,or chevy

[LuLu]

LULU...you know that as fact,regarding the teflon coating on top of pistons?

Yes. It is a fact. Our 3V (as well as 2V and 4V NHV engines) share the same short block and all have hyperteutic cast pistons with an 18 percent silicon content, covered with a thin (but effective) Teflon coating. Yes, you should consider it fact, we don't get the "hardened" bottom end that the '03-'04 SVT Cobras and other FMC cars got.

You also mentioned keepin engine cool. In that regards I was taught that too. If I recall,I was runnin a thermostat made for Hudsons,which opened at 140. Also,this was breathin at sea level. I forget if we were runnin em in a Ford,or chevy

 

I can't tell you how altitude or "Hudsons" affect this, I haven't been around this country all that much and Hudsons are history older than me. But, I do know that the ideal normal EOT for our 4.6L engines is 180 degrees, and NAPA has a 180 thermostat for Ford products at their fingertips.

 

Between oil viscosity, theromstat and coolant blend, stay as close to 180 degrees as you can and you will be safe with custom aftermarket tuning. Running lean will produce more power from the tune, but running lean means running hotter, and on a regular basis this will not be good for our engines. Reduce the chance of detonation when ever you can. Run a tad rich and watch your engine coolant temps, this won't be wasted time nor effort.

[69dejavue]

Yes. It is a fact. Our 3V (as well as 2V and 4V NHV engines) share the same short block and all have hyperteutic cast pistons with an 18 percent silicon content, covered with a thin (but effective) Teflon coating. Yes, you should consider it fact, we don't get the "hardened" bottom end that the '03-'04 SVT Cobras and other FMC cars got.

 

I can't tell you how altitude or "Hudsons" affect this, I haven't been around this country all that much and Hudsons are history older than me. But, I do know that the ideal normal EOT for our 4.6L engines is 180 degrees, and NAPA has a 180 thermostat for Ford products at their fingertips.

 

Between oil viscosity, theromstat and coolant blend, stay as close to 180 degrees as you can and you will be safe with custom aftermarket tuning. Running lean will produce more power from the tune, but running lean means running hotter, and on a regular basis this will not be good for our engines. Reduce the chance of detonation when ever you can. Run a tad rich and watch your engine coolant temps, this won't be wasted time nor effort.

 

 

LuLu, what effect, if any, will the 180 have on emissions and the computer? Also PM me. Thanks

[SGT2666]

I was watching Muscle Car Tv this morning and they did multiple pulls on an LS7 using a product called Filtch that was supposed to somehow restore gasoline to a better quality and add octane. It runs your fuel line through a little can full of some type metal pellets. The Dyno verified its claims, while they got relatively equal power levels they got considerably better gas mileage. Any of you know anything about these?

 

Hey LuLu in 98 I built a Cobra with a Vortech and they didn't recomend that I go over 5psi. I believe the issue was cintered rods and pistons that would desintegrate, they seem to have more faith in what we have now. Do you know why?

[LuLu]

LuLu, what effect, if any, will the 180 have on emissions and the computer? Also PM me. Thanks

 

Absolutely no negative affect what so ever. Our stock 4.6L-3V thermostat is 197 degrees, so, we're only talking about 17 degrees cooler. But, this is enough and well within the parameters of EEC to adjust spark, fuel and timing and avoid detonation and pre-ignition. Not a big deal, but if you go with one of those "over-the-counter" custom tunes without having a professional tuner look it over on a dyno, you are asking for trouble. BTW, you won't hear detonation unless you have very sensitive ears. It's overshadowed by intake and exhaust notes.

 

Look at it from their view? Lean AF mixture = more power, and "more power" sells more product. A tune that was calculated in CA. could be dangerous in Chicago or NJ, and vice-versa. Plus, remember that an over-the-counter tune = you messed with stuff, and your warranty can be voided.

 

Techs can trace that now, the EEC records flash over tunes. Back in '03, I could cover my tracks in restoring it to stock calibration, but I can't do that anymore in '07. Y'all think FMC doesn't read MM&FF?, or websites like this? It's in their best financial interests to do exactly that, and I personally know of cases where owners just like us, were confronted with internet postings and brags about what was being done to their cars. Window the block today, and a lot of eyes will be on your car before anyone offers to pick up the tab.

Hey LuLu in 98 I built a Cobra with a Vortech and they didn't recomend that I go over 5psi. I believe the issue was cintered rods and pistons that would desintegrate, they seem to have more faith in what we have now. Do you know why?

 

Well, maybe? There has been a lot of minor improvements to the block itself, added webbing here and there and better external balancing. Improved quality control in cranks, oil pumps, rods and pistons, and final assembly, but nothing close to "major" improvements. Remember, this was supposed to be a "modular" engine, where parts interchange, and (depending on what you want to do) they do.

 

On our stock 3V engines, the crank is still cast iron, the rods are still I-beam style and made of powdered metal with cracked caps. The pistons haven't changed much at all, other than adjustments to cc dish size, which is relative to the style of head on the final build. Among 2V, 3V and 4V heads, combustion chambers vary from 42 to 52cc, so, if you are buying a bone-yard short block, decode the tag number to know what you are looking at, otherwise, you may end up with lower compression. The stock 3-V compression ratio is 9.8:1.

 

Nothing is stronger than a cast iron block with forged rods and pistons, but that's a lot of added weight, Not just weight on the nose of the car, but internal weight of the rotating mass. Many do not think of it, but a "built" engine will cost you some power because internals are heavier and use more energy just to rotate. But hell, that's why you can push 14-16 PSI on them, and make up for the loss.

 

More relative to your question, Wado, I think we have become smarter about supercharging over the last ten years, learning the potential benefits and shortcomings of the variety of styles on the market today. I'm not going to start another "Roots/PD vs. Centrifugal" discussion here, I've had my say. But, one thing remains true, which is intercooling is a major improvement. Intercooling external to the engine that is.

 

With the minor but positive changes to our stock engine since '98, my opinion is max the boost at 8-9 pounds, and enjoy the 425 RWHP/400 RWTQ for what it is. Push that, and you better start drinking less beer, you'll need the quarters, nickles and dimes for the rebuild. You want 600 HP at the wheels? Start your build with a balls out cast iron 5.4L-4V.

 

Sorry for the long post, enjoy the snow gents.

[69dejavue]

Absolutely no negative affect what so ever. Our stock 4.6L-3V thermostat is 197 degrees, so, we're only talking about 17 degrees cooler. But, this is enough and well within the parameters of EEC to adjust spark, fuel and timing and avoid detonation and pre-ignition. Not a big deal, but if you go with one of those "over-the-counter" custom tunes without having a professional tuner look it over on a dyno, you are asking for trouble. BTW, you won't hear detonation unless you have very sensitive ears. It's overshadowed by intake and exhaust notes.

 

Look at it from their view? Lean AF mixture = more power, and "more power" sells more product. A tune that was calculated in CA. could be dangerous in Chicago or NJ, and vice-versa. Plus, remember that an over-the-counter tune = you messed with stuff, and your warranty can be voided.

 

Techs can trace that now, the EEC records flash over tunes. Back in '03, I could cover my tracks in restoring it to stock calibration, but I can't do that anymore in '07. Y'all think FMC doesn't read MM&FF?, or websites like this? It's in their best financial interests to do exactly that, and I personally know of cases where owners just like us, were confronted with internet postings and brags about what was being done to their cars. Window the block today, and a lot of eyes will be on your car before anyone offers to pick up the tab.

 

Well, maybe? There has been a lot of minor improvements to the block itself, added webbing here and there and better external balancing. Improved quality control in cranks, oil pumps, rods and pistons, and final assembly, but nothing close to "major" improvements. Remember, this was supposed to be a "modular" engine, where parts interchange, and (depending on what you want to do) they do.

 

On our stock 3V engines, the crank is still cast iron, the rods are still I-beam style and made of powdered metal with cracked caps. The pistons haven't changed much at all, other than adjustments to cc dish size, which is relative to the style of head on the final build. Among 2V, 3V and 4V heads, combustion chambers vary from 42 to 52cc, so, if you are buying a bone-yard short block, decode the tag number to know what you are looking at, otherwise, you may end up with lower compression. The stock 3-V compression ratio is 9.8:1.

 

Nothing is stronger than a cast iron block with forged rods and pistons, but that's a lot of added weight, Not just weight on the nose of the car, but internal weight of the rotating mass. Many do not think of it, but a "built" engine will cost you some power because internals are heavier and use more energy just to rotate. But hell, that's why you can push 14-16 PSI on them, and make up for the loss.

 

More relative to your question, Wado, I think we have become smarter about supercharging over the last ten years, learning the potential benefits and shortcomings of the variety of styles on the market today. I'm not going to start another "Roots/PD vs. Centrifugal" discussion here, I've had my say. But, one thing remains true, which is intercooling is a major improvement. Intercooling external to the engine that is.

 

With the minor but positive changes to our stock engine since '98, my opinion is max the boost at 8-9 pounds, and enjoy the 425 RWHP/400 RWTQ for what it is. Push that, and you better start drinking less beer, you'll need the quarters, nickles and dimes for the rebuild. You want 600 HP at the wheels? Start your build with a balls out cast iron 5.4L-4V.

 

Sorry for the long post, enjoy the snow gents.

 

LuLu, you mentioned cooling including a 180 thermostat and an engine oil cooler in the past. Do you think the two of those mods would combine to offset the effects of an underpulley and the subsequent reduction in cooling? What is your email address?

 

[69dejavue]

LuLu, you mentioned the necessity of internal and external cooling. Would the addition of a 180 degree thermostat and an engine oil cooler offset the reduction in cooling of an underpulley system?

 

Your PM box is full. What is your email address again. Hi Mac!!!!!

[LuLu]

LuLu, you mentioned the necessity of internal and external cooling. Would the addition of a 180 degree thermostat and an engine oil cooler offset the reduction in cooling of an underpulley system?

 

In a word, yes. Better word, absolutely. UDPs didn't affect the cooling on my 4V engines, but they may on the 3V, I haven't looked into this much just yet. Actually, there is more than one topic here.

 

Topic one...Keeping the EOT as close to 180 as possible is essential to avoiding detonation. Also keep in mind that any temps reported by an aftermarket gauge are not as accurate as the temps reported to the EEC by on-board sensors, and there are two, AIT1 in the MAF and AIT2 in the engine block. The EEC decides what to adjust long before you read it on a gauge. If your gauge reports 180, you're prolly at 183-185, but this is just as good. Engine oil weights affect this too, which is why 5W20 is the recommended lubricant.

 

Topic two...When I mentioned "interior vs. exterior" cooling, I meant intercooler styles. Centrifugal blowers use exterior coolers (water to air and air to air). Roots and PD/twin screw blowers use interior water to air intercoolers buried in the valley of the block underneath the blower and naturally a much warmer environment.

 

Exterior intercooling is more efficient in cooling the air charge and you should see AITs within 8-10 degrees of ambient air temp. The EEC will learn this from the MAF sensor (AIT1), and keep you safe. AIT2 is an internal sensor, but at this point it's a bit late to make any changes. We're talking very fine points of interest here, but I imagine you would want want all the power you can get, but get safely.

 

Your PM box is full. What is your email address again. Hi Mac!!!!!

 

It's full because it's shut off. I don't use PMs, they are not secure from board Admins. E-Mail is SergntMac@aol.com, use "Hi Mac" to get past my spam filters. I'm not hard to find, just got tired of the usual BS associated with being active on-line. Send me a phone number, I'll call on my dime.

[SGT2666]

In a word, yes. Better word, absolutely. UDPs didn't affect the cooling on my 4V engines, but they may on the 3V, I haven't looked into this much just yet. Actually, there is more than one topic here.

 

Topic one...Keeping the EOT as close to 180 as possible is essential to avoiding detonation. Also keep in mind that any temps reported by an aftermarket gauge are not as accurate as the temps reported to the EEC by on-board sensors, and there are two, AIT1 in the MAF and AIT2 in the engine block. The EEC decides what to adjust long before you read it on a gauge. If your gauge reports 180, you're prolly at 183-185, but this is just as good. Engine oil weights affect this too, which is why 5W20 is the recommended lubricant.

 

Topic two...When I mentioned "interior vs. exterior" cooling, I meant intercooler styles. Centrifugal blowers use exterior coolers (water to air and air to air). Roots and PD/twin screw blowers use interior water to air intercoolers buried in the valley of the block underneath the blower and naturally a much warmer environment.

 

Exterior intercooling is more efficient in cooling the air charge and you should see AITs within 8-10 degrees of ambient air temp. The EEC will learn this from the MAF sensor (AIT1), and keep you safe. AIT2 is an internal sensor, but at this point it's a bit late to make any changes. We're talking very fine points of interest here, but I imagine you would want want all the power you can get, but get safely.

It's full because it's shut off. I don't use PMs, they are not secure from board Admins. E-Mail is SergntMac@aol.com, use "Hi Mac" to get past my spam filters. I'm not hard to find, just got tired of the usual BS associated with being active on-line. Send me a phone number, I'll call on my dime.

 

 

you do realize that in the modular the intake is floating 3-4" over a sealed valley right? Still maybe a warmer environment probably why we have 3 times the cooling capacity.

[LuLu]

you do realize that in the modular the intake is floating 3-4" over a sealed valley right? Still maybe a warmer environment probably why we have 3 times the cooling capacity.

 

I don't quite get what you mean by "sealed", but I think I have a good idea.

 

On a modular engine, the valley is sealed off from contamination, yes. On a pushrod engine, it's not. However, it's not sealed off from the outside world. Last time I pulled an upper/lower intake assembly, I had to brush out leaves and other road debris, even found a cigarette butt down there. For those of you who have not seen what we're talking about, here is a pic of a 2006 4.6L-3V long block, the valley is the black area in the center.

 

http://www.karkraft.com/06%20EXPLORER%20LB.jpg

 

My point was that installing an intercooler in the valley eventually limits its effectiveness. It's basking in the internal heat of the engine and can become "heat soaked" to the point where intercooler temps can reach the boiling point of water. How much air charge cooling is present then?

 

This is why I think that exterior intercooling is more effective. On my last centrifugal blower car, I could stick my finger into the water-to-air coolant reservoir after 3 hours of city driving. I wouldn't try that with an interior intercooler.

 

When it comes to heat exchangers, size matters.

[SGT2666]

I don't quite get what you mean by "sealed", but I think I have a good idea.

 

On a modular engine, the valley is sealed off from contamination, yes. On a pushrod engine, it's not. However, it's not sealed off from the outside world. Last time I pulled an upper/lower intake assembly, I had to brush out leaves and other road debris, even found a cigarette butt down there. For those of you who have not seen what we're talking about, here is a pic of a 2006 4.6L-3V long block, the valley is the black area in the center.

 

http://www.karkraft.com/06%20EXPLORER%20LB.jpg

 

My point was that installing an intercooler in the valley eventually limits its effectiveness. It's basking in the internal heat of the engine and can become "heat soaked" to the point where intercooler temps can reach the boiling point of water. How much air charge cooling is present then?

 

This is why I think that exterior intercooling is more effective. On my last centrifugal blower car, I could stick my finger into the water-to-air coolant reservoir after 3 hours of city driving. I wouldn't try that with an interior intercooler.

 

When it comes to heat exchangers, size matters.

 

 

The sealed valley makes changing intakes a no brainer compared to the classic stuff. Its more like installing headers and the gasket set up is very slick they really make it a snap.

 

heres a good look at the ports and you can see the how the intake will float above them.

 

[LuLu]

Great pic to add Wado, thanks! The intake ports were covered with duct tape in the pic I posted.

 

I may miss my guess here, but that's a 4.6L-4V long block, prolly an '03 Marauder/Avaitor/Mach I, with a belt driven water pump in place.

[SGT2666]

Great pic to add Wado, thanks! The intake ports were covered with duct tape in the pic I posted.

 

I may miss my guess here, but that's a 4.6L-4V long block, prolly an '03 Marauder/Avaitor/Mach I, with a belt driven water pump in place.

 

 

Its a new hot rod crate motor from ford blower ready. They call it the Aluminator lol

[fatboy_merged]

i'll probly eventually have a guage pod installed. do they have an engine temp guage for the pod?

those little dash idiot guages dont help me much.

i'd like to have an engine temp, oil temp, and oil pressure guage since i dont have or want a supercharger.

[SGT2666]

i'll probly eventually have a guage pod installed. do they have an engine temp guage for the pod?

those little dash idiot guages dont help me much.

i'd like to have an engine temp, oil temp, and oil pressure guage since i dont have or want a supercharger.

 

 

I just installed the Speed of Sound gauge pillar pods this weekend. I like the design and its a very easy clean install literally snaps in no tools required. I had a very minor issue with one of my pods and the guys at speed of sound were amazing they are shipping me a replacement out same day. You might take a look at these Speed of Sound.

[LuLu]

i'll probly eventually have a guage pod installed. do they have an engine temp guage for the pod?

those little dash idiot guages dont help me much.

i'd like to have an engine temp, oil temp, and oil pressure guage since i dont have or want a supercharger.

 

I don't mean to be a pr*ck here, but there is something a few of y'all are missing out on.

 

Dash/Pod mounted aftermarket gauges are neat and very cool, but they don't tell you everything that's going on under your hood in a timely fashion. There's only one (okay, maybe two) ways to learn this stuff and I mean to say, again, Read your OBDII data and read it live. Live...As it's happening under your hood. You can do this with;

 

http://www.scangauge.com

 

And/Or;

 

http://www.aeroforcetech.com/Fordtech.html

 

Read your OBDII data live and learn how to understand it, then be guided by the decisions your EEC is making for you.

 

I believe in this method very strongly because any change in any area happens instantly, and it could take up to five minutes for your analogue dash/add-on gauge to reflect this change. Anyone here want to wait that long to find out you lost oil pressure, or, your engine temp is 220?

 

Not me, so, if you want to watch what is going on under your hood and learn it live via your OBDII port, here's a way to do this. It's the 411 your EEC is working with, why not know what that 411 is?

 

Happy holidays, gents.

[SGT2666]

I don't mean to be a pr*ck here, but there is something a few of y'all are missing out on.

 

Dash/Pod mounted aftermarket gauges are neat and very cool, but they don't tell you everything that's going on under your hood in a timely fashion. There's only one (okay, maybe two) ways to learn this stuff and I mean to say, again, Read your OBDII data and read it live. Live...As it's happening under your hood. You can do this with;

 

http://www.scangauge.com

 

And/Or;

 

http://www.aeroforcetech.com/Fordtech.html

 

Read your OBDII data live and learn how to understand it, then be guided by the decisions your EEC is making for you.

 

I believe in this method very strongly because any change in any area happens instantly, and it could take up to five minutes for your analogue dash/add-on gauge to reflect this change. Anyone here want to wait that long to find out you lost oil pressure, or, your engine temp is 220?

 

Not me, so, if you want to watch what is going on under your hood and learn it live via your OBDII port, here's a way to do this. It's the 411 your EEC is working with, why not know what that 411 is?

 

Happy holidays, gents.

 

 

I'm not following you? There should be no delay in a boost gauge or a pressure gauge.

[LuLu]

I'm not following you? There should be no delay in a boost gauge or a pressure gauge.

 

I agree, there should not be any delay, but there is. So, don't believe me, what do I know anyway?

 

Just check your MAP numbers against your boost gauge. Likewise check your EOT against your temp gauge, or, your fuel pressure measured at the pump and at the rail against your aftermarket FP gauge.

 

Check the numbers, and the response time as well. What did you find?

 

There is a delay between 411 recorded by the EEC, and what you can read on any analogue gauge. It's in the hardware and when seconds count, well...Seconds count.

 

Buy your gauges, gents, and drive on. Just trying to give y'all a heads up on this data, not start an argument.

 

-30-

[SGT2666]

I agree, there should not be any delay, but there is. So, don't believe me, what do I know anyway?

 

Just check your MAP numbers against your boost gauge. Likewise check your EOT against your temp gauge, or, your fuel pressure measured at the pump and at the rail against your aftermarket FP gauge.

 

Check the numbers, and the response time as well. What did you find?

 

There is a delay between 411 recorded by the EEC, and what you can read on any analogue gauge. It's in the hardware and when seconds count, well...Seconds count.

 

Buy your gauges, gents, and drive on. Just trying to give y'all a heads up on this data, not start an argument.

 

-30-

 

 

Sorry I don't mean I won't follow you I mean I don't follow your logic. There is not a delay in the gauges and the EEC is relying on the same kinds of devices to get its info. Why do you think there is a delay?

 

Are you saying that we are not quick enough to see the real time changes that the computer records so that you can see them on a timeline?

[LuLu]

Sorry I don't mean I won't follow you I mean I don't follow your logic. There is not a delay in the gauges and the EEC is relying on the same kinds of devices to get its info. Why do you think there is a delay?

 

Are you saying that we are not quick enough to see the real time changes that the computer records so that you can see them on a timeline?

 

No apology necessary, it's a matter of which way is best to monitor what's going on under your hood. It's a learning curve, Wado, a new day with new technology. It's not what we can capture with our eyes, but what our eyes are told. Analogue gauges are cool, and flashy today yes. But, slow by today's technology in responding to changes under the hood.

 

Imagine yourself at a drag strip on a "light" day, and you get an opportunity to make 4 maybe 5 passes down the 1320 back to back. Your engine temps will rise quickly and heat soak is just one more pass away, but your coolant temp gauge won't report this until you sit still for a few minutes. Your EEC will report EOT numbers like rightnow.

 

Imagine you are crusing the Interstate at 70 MPH and for over two hours, and your oil pressure gauge sits still, while your OBDII monitor tells you there is a pressure leak and you're down to 20 PSI. Likewise EOTs, your gauge says 180 degrees, but your OBDII says it's 220. Which signal is more important?

 

I like gauges. Very old school, as I am myself. But, it they are not up to speed on the 411 that is available to us today, time to move along?

[69dejavue]

LuLu, you mentioned that you will not hear the knocking unless you have very good ears. Do these engines have a knock sensor that will retard timing and save the engine/pistons?

[SGT2666]

LuLu, you mentioned that you will not hear the knocking unless you have very good ears. Do these engines have a knock sensor that will retard timing and save the engine/pistons?

 

 

Yes they do....

 

No apology necessary, it's a matter of which way is best to monitor what's going on under your hood. It's a learning curve, Wado, a new day with new technology. It's not what we can capture with our eyes, but what our eyes are told. Analogue gauges are cool, and flashy today yes. But, slow by today's technology in responding to changes under the hood.

 

Imagine yourself at a drag strip on a "light" day, and you get an opportunity to make 4 maybe 5 passes down the 1320 back to back. Your engine temps will rise quickly and heat soak is just one more pass away, but your coolant temp gauge won't report this until you sit still for a few minutes. Your EEC will report EOT numbers like rightnow.

 

Imagine you are crusing the Interstate at 70 MPH and for over two hours, and your oil pressure gauge sits still, while your OBDII monitor tells you there is a pressure leak and you're down to 20 PSI. Likewise EOTs, your gauge says 180 degrees, but your OBDII says it's 220. Which signal is more important?

 

I like gauges. Very old school, as I am myself. But, it they are not up to speed on the 411 that is available to us today, time to move along?

 

 

I'm sorry this doesn't make sense to me LuLu and its something I'm pretty familiar with. There is no delay in your gauges and the pickups used to feed the gauges are the same or similar devices to what the EEC is using, if you are using electronic gauges. I think you are misunderstanding the technology. It isn't the speed of the guages but the speed that the EEC can respond to changes that is the advantage. The EEC can also look at rate of change to predict future change using PID loops and so can preempt issues.

[LuLu]

Yes they do....

 

I'm sorry this doesn't make sense to me LuLu and its something I'm pretty familiar with. There is no delay in your gauges and the pickups used to feed the gauges are the same or similar devices to what the EEC is using, if you are using electronic gauges. I think you are misunderstanding the technology. It isn't the speed of the guages but the speed that the EEC can respond to changes that is the advantage. The EEC can also look at rate of change to predict future change using PID loops and so can preempt issues.

 

I agree that knock sensors are present and working as expected, though we may not know it as it happens, unless you have an EEC monitor that reports it.

 

I do not agree with what follows that statement. Analogue gauges cannot exceed the performance of digital data reported to the EEC, and this discussion has reached it's end.

 

Thanks, be safe.

[SGT2666]

There are no inherent speed limitations with analogue gauges they are totally linear and as good as the design of the gauge and the device feeding them. They can move much faster then the eye can see and easily fast enough to report the kind of things we're talking about. Digital is just a format, it can have as much resolution as is designed into the sensor and the display. They are very often not a very good way to display rapidly changing values as they can be much harder to read then an analogue gauge.

 

The advantages of the EEC are in its ability to read those values possibly thousands of times a minute depending on the processing ability of the EEC itself and the sensors reaction time. So it can react much faster then any human input.