Car vs. Engine numbering

[DeLa1Rob]

 

Although the Shelby Dodge's appeared to use separate numbering when comparing the dash to engine plaques in reality they were connected to each other.

 

.... Carroll was so concerned about fakes/clones of his Whittier cars that they did their best to make it as difficult as they could for anyone to just take say a dash plaque and create a Shelby clone/fake.

 

This system was also to help the Shelby line workers get the right plaques on the right cars but because of human error this didn't always happen. The largest amount of errors (wrong plaques) occured in 1989 because for the first time Shelby Automobiles were producing two vehicles at the same time....

 

From the research I've done thru the years my best guess is that 10% to 25% of the 1989 production had the wrong engine plaque installed. IIRC even Carrolls CSX #001 has the wrong engine plaque on it.

 

Steve

 

 

<_< I should have clarified my comment. I knew that the engine ID was tied to the car number. By appearance, though, the numbers look unrelated.

 

You say that two vehicle lines were produced simultaneously in 1989. When Shelby had three vehicle offerings in 1987, were they produced sequentially instead? (ie first a run of 1000 GLH-S Chargers, then 800 Lancers, and finally a run of 750 CSX)

 

Looking forward to your reply

 

robin

[shelbymotorsports]

Yes there were three vehicles built in 1987 with the GLHS being the first and like the 1986 GLHS it too did not have a engine data plaque.

 

Since the 1987 GLHS used basically the same modifications as the 1986 GLHS production was started early in the 1987 model year introduction and pretty much finished up before the CSX and Lancer started production.

 

I'll have to go look up and see if the 1987 CSX Lancer and the 1987 CSX were produced at the same time. Off the top of my head I want to say they started up at different times but most likely had some production overlap.

 

Steve

[shelbymotorsports]

***The below dates are approximate***

 

1987 GLHS Production Started 10/01/86

1987 Lancer Production Started 01/01/87

1987 CSX Production Started 07/01/87

 

1989 Dakota Production Started 01/01/89

1989 CSX Production Started 05/01/89

 

So although the possibility for some minor production overlap in 1987 exists in general each model was finished before the next model was started.

 

It probably would have been the same for the 1989 models except that sometime during the Dakota production run Chrysler decided to add an additional 500 units to the original 1000 planned trucks for a total of 1500 units.

 

So basically four months into the Dakota production run the CSX production was started which in my opinion is why there are so many "plaque errors" on the 1989 vehicles and not the 1987 vehicles.

 

Steve

[DeLa1Rob]

I didn't realize the 87 CSX had such a late production start. That is close to when Dodge would be starting to build for the 1988 model year.

 

There must also be an overlap between the consumer 87 CSX and the rental 88 CSX-T.

 

robin

[shelbymotorsports]

I didn't realize the 87 CSX had such a late production start. That is close to when Dodge would be starting to build for the 1988 model year.

 

Yup and that was one of the biggest downfalls. In one sense the Whittier cars should really be considered 1/2 year cars with the exception of the 1987 GLHS. These late intros did not help sales which resulted in the cars sitting on dealer lots well into the next model year and in some case well into two model years later.

 

For example many dealers still had 1987 Shelby Lancers on their lot thru 1988-89 while in the next stall over there were 1988-89 Dodge Shelby Lancers. So imagine a salesperson in 1989 trying to convince a buyer to purchase a two year old car when they can buy a current model Chrysler version sitting right next to it.

 

These late intros also came into play with Shelby's inventory and resulted in the Thrifty Rental deal where Thrifty agreed to take some unsold 1987 Lancers and 1987 CSX's off Shelby's hand. Shelby Automobiles was in the car business so they did what they did whatever it took to move them.

 

There must also be an overlap between the consumer 87 CSX and the rental 88 CSX-T.

 

1988 CSX-T production started around mid January 1988 which is about six months after the 1987 CSX production started. My guess there was very little overlap if any.

 

Keep in mind Shelby Automobiles did not have a large full time permanent work force. They had a core group of permanent workers but the majority of the line workers were brought in as needed and when there were no cars to run down the line there was no need for a large work force.

 

Steve

[CSX-VNT #414]

I knew that the engine ID was tied to the car number. By appearance, though, the numbers look unrelated.

 

robin

 

Rob

 

How is the engine ID tied to the car number itself? Can you clarify on that, as I was always led to believe that the workers at Skunkworks randomly threw dash plaques on the cars, and then they were documented as they left in regards to the vin#/car# correlation. Is that true or no?

 

 

Please let us/me know!

[shelbymotorsports]

Rob

 

How is the engine ID tied to the car number itself? Can you clarify on that, as I was always led to believe that the workers at Skunkworks randomly threw dash plaques on the cars, and then they were documented as they left in regards to the vin#/car# correlation. Is that true or no?

 

 

Please let us/me know!

Billy

 

I'm pretty sure that Robin meant the engine data plaque mounted on the radiator support when he referred to the "engine id" and not the cars vin number stamped on the engine block.

 

The dash plaque number and radiator support plaque number are related to each other meaning all you need is one plaque to know what the other plaque should read.

 

Steve

[CSX-VNT #414]

Billy

 

I'm pretty sure that Robin meant the engine data plaque mounted on the radiator support when he referred to the "engine id" and not the cars vin number stamped on the engine block.

 

The dash plaque number and radiator support plaque number are related to each other meaning all you need is one plaque to know what the other plaque should read.

 

Steve

 

 

Care to further explain Steve? I know which plaque you're talking about, the skinny CS logo'd plaque. I don't understand the correlation between the numbers though. What should one look for to verify that both are correct?

[sdac guy]

Care to further explain Steve? I know which plaque you're talking about, the skinny CS logo'd plaque. I don't understand the correlation between the numbers though. What should one look for to verify that both are correct?

I'm not Steve but ....

 

The engine plaque # is derived from subtracting the dash plaque number from the year of the car. So for your 1989 CSX #414, 1989-414=1575, the engine plaque number should be 1575.

[86glhs76]

I'm not Steve but ....

 

The engine plaque # is derived from subtracting the dash plaque number from the year of the car. So for your 1989 CSX #414, 1989-414=1575, the engine plaque number should be 1575.

 

Thats the way I remember it too for the later cars.

 

My 86 GLHS has the lowest Dodge vin of any numbered car, but it # 076 on the dash. They just lined them up and pulled them in the shop. They were out of vin order when they were built. So vins don't mean as much. I was able to keep the origanal blocks from 2 of my numbered cars just in case it matters someday.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thats the way I remember it too for the later cars.

 

My 86 GLHS has the lowest Dodge vin of any numbered car, but it # 076 on the dash. They just lined them up and pulled them in the shop. They were out of vin order when they were built. So vins don't mean as much. I was able to keep the origanal blocks from 2 of my numbered cars just in case it matters someday.

 

 

That's kinda neat, how low is the VIN on it?

[86glhs76]

That's kinda neat, how low is the VIN on it?

 

I bought my GLHS from Joe Anderson in Seattle WA, he has a few collector Shelbys. His 87 CSX has PROTO 1 on the dash plack and is an origanally red car when you lift the carpet. Joe did the research and told me thats why he bought my 86 GLHS. So I believed him and never looked it up. If someone knows more info on the vin I would like to know it. The title says " make SHLBY" love that.

 

1B3BZ18E3GD241236

 

Rob

[shelbymotorsports]

I bought my GLHS from Joe Anderson in Seattle WA, he has a few collector Shelbys. His 87 CSX has PROTO 1 on the dash plack and is an origanally red car when you lift the carpet. Joe did the research and told me thats why he bought my 86 GLHS. So I believed him and never looked it up. If someone knows more info on the vin I would like to know it. The title says " make SHLBY" love that.

 

1B3BZ18E3GD241236

 

Rob

 

That is correct. 1986 GLHS #076 has the lowest sequential Chrysler vin number for a GLHS. It was one of the first batch of 25 cars shipped to Whittier.

 

Steve

[BadAssPerformance]

I bought my GLHS from Joe Anderson in Seattle WA, he has a few collector Shelbys. His 87 CSX has PROTO 1 on the dash plack and is an origanally red car when you lift the carpet. Joe did the research and told me thats why he bought my 86 GLHS. So I believed him and never looked it up. If someone knows more info on the vin I would like to know it. The title says " make SHLBY" love that.

 

1B3BZ18E3GD241236

 

Rob

 

Thats pretty cool! And that is funny, I have herd of several titles that say SHLBY, even Shelby Chargers!

[86glhs76]

That is correct. 1986 GLHS #076 has the lowest sequential Chrysler vin number for a GLHS. It was one of the first batch of 25 cars shipped to Whittier.

 

Steve

 

I believed Joe on the Vin. I wanted an 87 GLHS as I always liked the Chargers a lot better. But a single dad for over 10 years now and back then I needed 4 doors. #76 needed everything but was in the price range and I wanted a real GLHS. Joe would have wanted more for it but here switched the fuel lines lol, ran the pressure to the regulator.

 

Like many car freaks it isn't just a number but I also name my cars lol. My Challenger as a kid was No Mercy, had the plates too in WA. I won the fastest street car class everytime as a junior and made the final 4 every time and won out right 3 times. Scored enough points to be 3rd in school standings. The 86 GLHS 76 I bought WA state GODZILA for the plates. Then on top I added Shelby GLHS #76 and below the plate EAT STOMP AND SMOKE JAPAN. The import people however love the car. The other domestics like GT Mustangs and Cameros really hate the car. Import guys love the car, and know it is all American at the track. Yet the guys running V8s believe the car is an import as no American could build a real compact in there minds.

 

My 89 CSX has an intresting number that also named the car, #187 homicide. Like Shelby I hate the American ideas that American cars are junk. Sure I could go get the Challenger but thats like using an 8lb sledge hammer on a tack. Going out with a 20 year old FWD SOHC 8v 4 banger and stomping new AWD 16v import 4 bangers is a riot. There isn't one guy at autocross that thinks the 89 CSX came with Recaros or the body kit, let alone the springs and shocks.

 

As far as the plack number under the hood and the dash plack, that has been some what easy. But now that they are becoming older I am wondering about engine to body number matching. I have the origanal engine to the 89 CSX, but does it had numbering like a muscle car? Do the Shelby Dodges have matching number engines? No hope for the GLHS but I would like to be able to match up my CSX at least when the time comes.