18's vs. 20's

[SGT]

I'm thinking about getting a brake upgrade and I wanted to know what the ride difference is between 18's and 20's. How is the ride on the street and on the track with 20's. How do they compare to 18's which ride is better?

 

Thanks

[RogerS]

I can tell you that I did drive my car in Vegas with the 18's and now have the 20"s the ride is more harsh. You feel more road imperfections due to the decrease in the side wall size. Socal could give you some feedback on the track performace as you can see in his post on his new hobby. He's running 20's and had some time on the 18's.

[SWEDESHELBY1]

I also had the 18's at inception but switched to the 20's. The road noise is louder and ride stiffer, but smooth rides are for old ladies right?!

No, I would not change back as I love the appearance of the 20's and the noise does not bother you once you have driven the car just 1-2 times. The looks I get with the 20's far out weighs the looks I got with the 18's, so if you don;'t want as many looks stay with the 18's and it was just too much black for me.

+1 on the 20's.

[AFBLUE]

:D

[CH53Driver]

I'd say that 18's ride better but 20's usually look nicer...depends on what you prefer I guess. You will also lose a little bit of performance with the 20's, but if you want the looks then that is probably what I would go with. I am having this same debate right now. I would like to upgrade the wheels, but can't decide between sticking with the 18's or going with the 20's.

[AFBLUE]

:D

 

I :D because it sounds like a thread perfectly designed to get me and swede into a fun filled discussion.

 

I'm a fan of the 18" wheels. I'm old school and like the look of 18" razors over the 20" razors. Plus I don't need the already firm SGT ride to be firmer.

 

However, if you are going to get aftermarket brakes from SAI, you need to go with the the 20"s.

[ShelbyPilot]

I can't tell you the track performance difference between 18's and 20's because I never had the 18's on the track. Street wise the ride and noise are worse with the 20's especially if you pump them up to 40psi like I had them on Sunday.

[ShelbyGT#3658]

I'm with AFBLUE on this one. I think the 18's look better. Keep in mind, the bigger the rim the bigger the chance of a rim being bent hitting a pot hole.

[SWEDESHELBY1]

I :D because it sounds like a thread perfectly designed to get me and swede into a fun filled discussion.

 

I'm a fan of the 18" wheels. I'm old school and like the look of 18" razors over the 20" razors. Plus I don't need the already firm SGT ride to be firmer.

 

However, if you are going to get aftermarket brakes from SAI, you need to go with the the 20"s.

 

 

I thought you already changed to "my way" AF? You know I am living vicariously through your purchase of your 2008 SGT don't you? So get the 20's and never look back, chrome 20's that is! :D

 

I'm with AFBLUE on this one. I think the 18's look better. Keep in mind, the bigger the rim the bigger the chance of a rim being bent hitting a pot hole.

 

 

That is really not the issue here. You can bend a rim nio matter what size when you hit a pot hole! The looks part i can understand, that is the questions here, and of course the brakes too :D .

[AFBLUE]

You can bend a rim no matter what size when you hit a pot hole!

 

 

20" wheels are 27.8% more likely to suffer damage from pot holes than 18" wheels. Where did I get this info from? I wrote it down then I read it. I believe everything I read :D

[RogerS]

20" wheels are 27.8% more likely to suffer damage from pot holes than 18" wheels. Where did I get this info from? I wrote it down then I read it. I believe everything I read :D

 

And I thought I had too much time on my hands......

 

But I can prove the formula wrong...........how? I don't drive the car in the winter :P

[clark17357]

It seems to me that the bottom line here is that, performance wise, we are better off with 18" wheels and tires. But with 18" wheels and tires, our braking ability is compromised over what one can put in a 20" wheel.

 

Clearly, if one feels the "look" of the 20" wheels and tires is the way to go, then you are willing to deal with the stiffer ride and, along with that, you have the ability to go where you want with brakes.

 

Sometimes, life is not fair. I suppose I could put GT500 18" wheels on my SGT except I do not think they look all that good. Did I mention sometimes, life is unfair? Jim

[ShelbyPilot]

There are other 18" wheels out there that should fit over the brakes. The diameter is not the problem it is the backspacing or offset whatever the correct word is. I beleieve the Finske wheel on the 500FR would fit but they are exspensive and may require stud changes. At the autocross event I was told I could get wheels custom ordered to fit at $500 a wheels. I don't remember the company but there were several cars with those wheels on them.

[clark17357]

There are other 18" wheels out there that should fit over the brakes. The diameter is not the problem it is the backspacing or offset whatever the correct word is. I beleieve the Finske wheel on the 500FR would fit but they are exspensive and may require stud changes. At the autocross event I was told I could get wheels custom ordered to fit at $500 a wheels. I don't remember the company but there were several cars with those wheels on them.

 

Hi Chris,

 

It would stand to reason that some wheels are out there and it they can be found, I would buy them, even at $500 a pop, assuming I can get them in the Torq-Thrust style (I'm so old fashioned). If you learn of something in your new passion of racing, please pass it on. Jim

[ShelbyPilot]

Hi Chris,

 

It would stand to reason that some wheels are out there and it they can be found, I would buy them, even at $500 a pop, assuming I can get them in the Torq-Thrust style (I'm so old fashioned). If you learn of something in your new passion of racing, please pass it on. Jim

 

 

I will but the wheels I saw on Sunday looked nothing like the bullets. They were all flat black and like a 10 or 12 spoke design. I'll see if I can find them. I don't think they would be all that great looking for most of us.

 

Perhaps this is something that American Racing and Shelby can work on. Or even, there has to be wheel companies making replacement wheels for the GT500.

[WI-GT/SC]

I personally like the look of the 18" wheels. Stock, Razors, Am. Racing, Etc. As far as brakes, There are quite a few quality aftermarket upgrades that will work with most 18" wheels. Make sure you check the offset.

 

Just my 2cents B)

[srf73]

I'm sure the right 18" wheels are out there, at the appropriate price. If you are not averse to the looks of the GT500 wheels, these wheels could be an option for the SGT. FRPP sells them as does American Muscle (in Black from AM as well). FRPP sells an upgrade kit for the Mustang GT that will upgrade you to the GT500 Brembo front caliper and front rotor. Then Steeda (Ya I know it's not pure SPP or FRPP parts) sells an upgrade to the GT500, w/ slotted front rotor, slotted larger dia rear and bracket to offset and remount the OEM rear caliper.

 

FWIW last time I upgraded brakes, I put Porsche calipers and drilled rotors on my 2000 Audi S4. Great brakes but it was $6K to do it, and that was just parts!!!!. The down side of drilled rotors is you better plan on regular maintenance with a pipe cleaner cleaning caked in brake dust out of all those nice sexy looking holes. This time around, I'm going with lower maintenance sloted rotors on Shelby <_<

 

Todd

CSM1638

[SWEDESHELBY1]

20" wheels are 27.8% more likely to suffer damage from pot holes than 18" wheels. Where did I get this info from? I wrote it down then I read it. I believe everything I read :D

 

 

:D :D I wouldn't expect anything less fro m you!

[ShelbyCobra826]

I also like the look of the 18" wheels better, and really wanted a set of the black CS56 ones. They are wider than the OEM wheels but keep the same sidewall height. Tires for them are a bit more, though.

 

Unfortunately, no one has ever been able to verify if they will fit over the big brake packages, and the purchase kind of lost steam.

[RogerS]

I also like the look of the 18" wheels better, and really wanted a set of the black CS56 ones. They are wider than the OEM wheels but keep the same sidewall height. Tires for them are a bit more, though.

 

Unfortunately, no one has ever been able to verify if they will fit over the big brake packages, and the purchase kind of lost steam.

 

 

According to the web site they will not fit big brake packages.

[LuLu]

I am really getting confused here, and all I can do about this is work it out here with y'all.

 

Forgive me if any of my 411 proves to be incorrect, I am really starting to get lost on this. I'm hoping someone from SAI will chime in with some real-time data.

 

There are other 18" wheels out there that should fit over the brakes. The diameter is not the problem it is the backspacing or offset whatever the correct word is.

Though taken from different points of measurement, "backspace" and "offset" come to be expressions of the same measurement, i.e. identifying exaxctly where the mounting pad is located, in relation to the wheel as a whole.

 

Backspace is measured by laying a wheel face down, and placing a straight edge across the internal rim, and measuring down to the face of the mounting pad. Typical "plumb line" proceedure, this measurement is expressed in SAE "inch" numbers.

 

Offset is measured by locating the exact center of the wheel by dividing it's inside rim width in half, and measuring (in the same plumb way) the distance between the actual centerline and the face of the mounting pad. There can be both "positive" and "negative" offsets, all expressed in millimeters. Why this is done so differently, I just don't know. But, the exact location of the mounting pad seems to be the same.

 

My SGT with came with black wheels w/polished rims. I traced this wheel back thrrough the 2007 FRP catalogue and identified it as FRP P/N M-1007-S1885B. It's chrome "brother" for some SGTs is M-1007-S1885C. The specs are 18" tall, 8.5" wide, 5 lug with a 4.5" bolt pattern. and 6.82" backspacing.

 

Oddly enough (and maybe why I am confused), is that my 2007 Mustang Accessory brochure that came with my SGT, has a wheel available on page 12. It's listed as P/N 6R3Z-1007-N. I know the specs of this wheel very well, it was the stock OEM wheel for the 2003-04 Mercury Marauder, and I owned three '03 Marauders.

 

It was listed in the 2006 FRP catalogue too, under P/N M-1007-M188P and identified then as having a 6.295" backspacing. The specs on this wheel are 18" tall, 8" wide, 5 lug with a 4.5" bolt pattern, and a 50mm offset (as speced by Lincoln/Mercury).

 

Naturally, one wheel being 8.5" wide and the other only 8.0" wide, the actual centerline will measure out offsets with different numbrs. However, I believe the mounting pads are in exactly the same place on both wheels.

 

Here's more 411 on wheels and measurements;

 

https://www.r ing.com/tech-wheel.html

 

According to the web site they will not fit big brake packages.

 

Now this is where I really get confused, help me?

 

The 2008 SPP catalogue (again, page 12) offers several "big brake kits" as we have come to call them. One of them is the Baer "BaerClaw" kit with 14" drilled and slotted "EradiSpeed" rotors and two-pot PBR/Shelby engraved calipers (and accessories) for the front brakes, with matching 14" rotors and caliper relocation kits for the rear brakes. Nice matched set, I'd be tempted to powdercoat the hats and Shelby lettering red.

 

This is the exact same "big brake kit" I installed on my Marauders, and I didn't have to change wheels. It was close quarters, yes. I had to hunt down custom wheel weights, and learn to road-force balance the wheel/tire assembly across the wheel width as well as around it's diameter, but my OEM Marauder wheels fit everytime without any problems at all.

 

Thus...My question.

 

Has anyone here tested the BaerClaw kit from SPP with the OEM wheel?

 

Does this minor difference between backspace and offset mean anything?

 

Can anyone from SAI add an opinion?

 

I know that larger 6 pot SPP offerings, i.e. "Extreme-Plus" and "Pro-Plus" SPP kits will require larger wheels, but I do not see any evidence confirming that the 14" two-pot Baer/PBR kit will not fit with our OEM/SGT wheels.

 

I ask because the BaerClaw kit SPP offers was the perfect solution for my 4500 pound Marauder luxo-barge. 520 RWHP on a Vortech blown 4.6L 4V delivered 70 MPH to zero in 71 feet on Pirelli tires, without triggering the ABS. Remarkable stopping power IMHO, and a lot less expensive?

 

At this point, I feel that some of you may have over-bought stuff you didn't need to buy. I know you won't be happy to hear me say so, but it's not my intent to point this out. I just need to know a little more about what I'm considering buying myself.

 

Thanks, be safe.

[RogerS]

Here is some more to contemplate. What about the spoke design. Now I have seen 5 spoke Bullit wheels from American Racing's Shelby series up close and personal and the spoke design from the rear and front is slightly more pronounced in it's rear spacing. It has a more curved contour on the inside looking like it does offer more clearance on the inside of the spoke for a larger caliper.

[SGT2666]

I think the issue is about spoke design not offset. If you like a deep dish look like I do you end up with wheels that have the spoke sucked back hard toward the center of the rim which minimizes brake clearance. The Deep dish bullets I have cleared the factory brakes by a 1/4" and that maybe generous. The big brakes are why a lot of modern wheels have the spokes out front right near the edge of the rim giving you max clearance.

[ShelbyGT#3658]

That is really not the issue here. You can bend a rim nio matter what size when you hit a pot hole! The

 

This is an issue. Of coarse you can bend any rim. The point is less tire side wall to absorb impact the greater the chance of rim damage. Plus, you can catch the edge of pot holes and curbs easier with thinner tires. I've been through it with my F150 Harley Truck so I'm telling you this from experience.

[LuLu]

This is an issue. Of coarse you can bend any rim. The point is less tire side wall to absorb impact the greater the chance of rim damage. Plus, you can catch the edge of pot holes and curbs easier with thinner tires. I've been through it with my F150 Harley Truck so I'm telling you this from experience.

 

Agreed. Less cushion = greater likelyhood of damage.

[fatboy_merged]

I think the issue is about spoke design not offset. If you like a deep dish look like I do you end up with wheels that have the spoke sucked back hard toward the center of the rim which minimizes brake clearance. The Deep dish bullets I have cleared the factory brakes by a 1/4" and that maybe generous. The big brakes are why a lot of modern wheels have the spokes out front right near the edge of the rim giving you max clearance.

 

yea the old school muscle cars could utilize the deep dish wheels especially on the rear end because they had drum brakes. nowadays its 4 wheel disks. and alot of young guys like to use the shallower rims to show off thier BREMBO disk brakes, etc.

rusty colored drum brake hubs look fugly if u put 20" rims on those lol

[Dig-It]

I downloaded the template for the 14" Baer Brake kit and took it to a local wheel shop last weekend. It did not fit inside the 18" FRPP Bullit or the 18" American Racing Shelby Torq-Thrust.

[Blip]

Here's an example of an 18" rim that works with a 14" brake upgrade.

In my case it's the stock Saleen Heritage 18'"rims that do clear the PJ style front brakes

that were installed on my car. However it is very close.

 

Thinking above getting a set of Razors, but hate to mess with the ride which is great.

 

[AFBLUE]

Does Saleen sales these aftermarket.

[Blip]

Does Saleen sales these aftermarket.

 

 

I beleive they only had a few extra sets of these 18" rims as they only built 57 H281's.

Don't know if any are still available. (I did get a spare set just incase I ever damage the original ones.)

 

The new 08 H302 uses a slightly different designed 19" version of this Heritage 5 spoke.

I think that version will eventually be available for sale in their aftermarket parts.

 

Also, there's an optional 19" 7 spoke Heritage wheel , similar to what was standard on the PJ Saleen,

that may also be offered in aftermarket sales too.

Here's what that one looks like: