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Doom and Gloom


iceman

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Did anyone else watch the quarterly report on the company today? Ford's big loss, too dependent on Pick up and SUV #'s that are down, blah blah blah....I couldn't help but think....and I can't buy the product from them because:

 

A. I won't pay over the Suggested asking price

B. The dealers are only getting 1-2 each with waiting lists that are much deeper

C. Distribution of the hot product has been slow to say the least - will we ever get to the goal of produced cars here?

 

I'm not trying to be too negative here but I keep thinking about the old limited production thing and the demand and the need to sell products and the company looking at cuts etc. Has anyone thought that maybe it's not that the company has the wrong number of people working there etc. but they are working on the wrong thing? I know there's more to it than stop making this car and go make that one, but rather than cut worers and save cost in the short term - maybe some one should look at how to produce more of what's hot and less of what's not...instead of cut heads and just make less of everything or have the workers there still do 3 times more etc.

 

Sorry for the rant - just kinda thinking out loud after this report and some of the things I've seen from corp. america in the last 5 or so yrs.

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Ice, the same thoughts have been rattling around in my head. The dealer that "assured" me of an MSRP deal called and informed me that the ADM is 25k. The good news is that I was prepared for a late 2008 delivery and evidently, the $25k didn't go over well with the people in front of me.

 

Daily, I get more pissed/disinterested with these jackasses. I'm trying to think of a way that the manufacturer and the dealer network( most of them) could screw up the experience even more......but, I can't think of one.

 

Until they calm down or the buyers calm down, I'l have to keep getting my speed fix from riding this. Oh,and it doesn't have 700 lbs to lose.

 

Sorry. Rant off.

 

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Did anyone else watch the quarterly report on the company today? Ford's big loss, too dependent on Pick up and SUV #'s that are down, blah blah blah....I couldn't help but think....and I can't buy the product from them because:

 

A. I won't pay over the Suggested asking price

B. The dealers are only getting 1-2 each with waiting lists that are much deeper

C. Distribution of the hot product has been slow to say the least - will we ever get to the goal of produced cars here?

 

I'm not trying to be too negative here but I keep thinking about the old limited production thing and the demand and the need to sell products and the company looking at cuts etc. Has anyone thought that maybe it's not that the company has the wrong number of people working there etc. but they are working on the wrong thing? I know there's more to it than stop making this car and go make that one, but rather than cut worers and save cost in the short term - maybe some one should look at how to produce more of what's hot and less of what's not...instead of cut heads and just make less of everything or have the workers there still do 3 times more etc.

 

Sorry for the rant - just kinda thinking out loud after this report and some of the things I've seen from corp. america in the last 5 or so yrs.

 

I assume that you own a company and run it successfully? If so, perhaps you should go into business and compete with Ford and run them out of business. Ford is in a no win position in some ways. On this forum alone, some of us are saying "Make more of them so price comes down", and others are saying "Make fewer so mine holds it's value". Have you seen the complaints from some people when they keep increasing the production estimates.

 

I think it's easy from the outside to criticize and "back seat drive" a company. It's a lot tougher to get in there and actually do it.

 

Dave

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Did anyone else watch the quarterly report on the company today? Ford's big loss, too dependent on Pick up and SUV #'s that are down, blah blah blah....I couldn't help but think....and I can't buy the product from them because:

 

A. I won't pay over the Suggested asking price

B. The dealers are only getting 1-2 each with waiting lists that are much deeper

C. Distribution of the hot product has been slow to say the least - will we ever get to the goal of produced cars here?

 

 

 

Points B and C are correct. Point A is not. You can't buy now at MSRP because demand exceeds supply now. Even if everyone were paying MSRP, the average wait would be horrendous...because there are way more early buyers of cars at MSRP than early production of cars.

 

 

I assume that you own a company and run it successfully? If so, perhaps you should go into business and compete with Ford and run them out of business. Ford is in a no win position in some ways. On this forum alone, some of us are saying "Make more of them so price comes down", and others are saying "Make fewer so mine holds it's value". Have you seen the complaints from some people when they keep increasing the production estimates.

 

I think it's easy from the outside to criticize and "back seat drive" a company. It's a lot tougher to get in there and actually do it.

 

Dave

 

 

Great post. Everyone thinks it is very easy for a company to meet their specific needs. And it is...but, of course, that ignores the specific needs of millions of other potential customers and the many constraints most companies face. It's not a matter of "just do it." Your reply is my standard reply: if it is soooo easy and company X is blowing it soooo bad, then jump right in. You're sure to make a mint.

 

Of course, the Japanese companies are killing the American auto manufacturers. And some of that is because of market and production related issues. And some aren't. It's a hugely complex industry and, notwithstanding what some will have you believe, it's is extraordinarily competitive.

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I assume that you own a company and run it successfully? If so, perhaps you should go into business and compete with Ford and run them out of business. Ford is in a no win position in some ways. On this forum alone, some of us are saying "Make more of them so price comes down", and others are saying "Make fewer so mine holds it's value". Have you seen the complaints from some people when they keep increasing the production estimates.

 

I think it's easy from the outside to criticize and "back seat drive" a company. It's a lot tougher to get in there and actually do it.

 

Dave

 

 

 

I do own a company and run it in a way that I feel is successful. I'm sure opinions range on that topic too to but my company is a private company and only my opinion matters from that perspective.

 

I don't at all think I could walk in compete with Ford, GM, etc. and beat them at their own game nor do I have the capito or desire to try. I agree they are in a bit of a no win on this forum for the reasons you speak of, but you find me a company that makes multiple products and produces too muc of the product that is falling in demand and not enough in the one rising. It would be great for the collecters if this car was like the GT, but it's not. It is a production car, not a limited edition. Ford needs the money and is potentially sitting on a gold mine with little realistic competition at this time.

 

The window is open now. In 2 yrs they may have a new Mustang of some type but they will also have a Challenger, Comaro, etc. to deal with. Perhaps I'm the fool but I would saturate the market now and reduce production when there are other cars to pick from knowing you can't win them all. Ford makes money on the volume - not on the people stuffing these in a garage and waiting 30 yrs for them to be worth a lot of money. Ford is a for profit business - Thankfully I am no longer a share holder but I still want to see them do well and while I am venting a bit of frustration about the purchasing experience I am not anti-any company (even Ford at this point). I believe if Ford mad too many the dealers would still buy them from Ford and eventually maybe they have to sell below MSRP but for Ford they make money from the volume - or perhaps we find demand isn't that great and then the strategy has to be changed.

 

I happen to like this car but if I can not get it and the Dodge comes out and I like it and can then Ford just lost some money....the point is the dealers are crying for more of these to sell and while I hate the ADM and want to say the dealers are bad for sticking it to people - I am also a capitolist and believe that something is worth what you can get for it. I may be in the minority here but i believe if there is no agreement in place dealers are free to do as they wish to sell the 1-2 they get. I can not believe if these things were flowing freely Ford or their share holders, which is who ultimately Ford needs to please, would be upset when earnings rise for a change and jobs are not cut for a change.

 

I don't think this car is the savior for Ford if the build it in mass. I'm not saying Mass produce this thing like and F150 or explorer or Tarus etc. Simply that it may be worth while for Ford to adjust their strategy a bit and look at a way to produce more of what's hot and less of what at this time is not and at the same time potentially saving some jobs. I've not done the research into cost, cause & effect, and so on - simply an observation that bothered me while watching the earnings report last night. The decline in earnings was tied directly to the over dependence on the F150 & Explorer with declining demand for those.....answer - cut jobs/cost and make less of those. I agree with part of it - less demand = make less....why not apply the same principal of business to areas where there is more demand....ie make more?

 

Still frustrated but appreciate the audience that has read this far.

 

Ice, the same thoughts have been rattling around in my head. The dealer that "assured" me of an MSRP deal called and informed me that the ADM is 25k. The good news is that I was prepared for a late 2008 delivery and evidently, the $25k didn't go over well with the people in front of me.

 

Daily, I get more pissed/disinterested with these jackasses. I'm trying to think of a way that the manufacturer and the dealer network( most of them) could screw up the experience even more......but, I can't think of one.

 

Until they calm down or the buyers calm down, I'l have to keep getting my speed fix from riding this. Oh,and it doesn't have 700 lbs to lose.

 

Sorry. Rant off.

 

post-4539-1153461883_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Nice ride - here's mine

post-3980-1153488901_thumb.jpg

post-3980-1153488901_thumb.jpg

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I don't think this car is the savior for Ford if the build it in mass. I'm not saying Mass produce this thing like and F150 or explorer or Tarus etc. Simply that it may be worth while for Ford to adjust their strategy a bit and look at a way to produce more of what's hot and less of what at this time is not and at the same time potentially saving some jobs. I've not done the research into cost, cause & effect, and so on - simply an observation that bothered me while watching the earnings report last night. The decline in earnings was tied directly to the over dependence on the F150 & Explorer with declining demand for those.....answer - cut jobs/cost and make less of those. I agree with part of it - less demand = make less....why not apply the same principal of business to areas where there is more demand....ie make more?

 

 

It appears to me that Ford has already done exactly what you describe. (the numbers I quote here are approximate...I have no official source for these) If you recall, the original production estimates were fairly low...around 6,000-7,000 per year. They've since raised that number to around 9,000. Looks like Ford was listening to you and took your advice. I guess you'd like them to go even higher...so I'm not sure exactly what number you are looking for. It appears 9,000 is not enough, and 250,000 is too many...pick a number in between...maybe they will listen to you yet again.

 

Dave

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It appears to me that Ford has already done exactly what you describe. (the numbers I quote here are approximate...I have no official source for these) If you recall, the original production estimates were fairly low...around 6,000-7,000 per year. They've since raised that number to around 9,000. Looks like Ford was listening to you and took your advice. I guess you'd like them to go even higher...so I'm not sure exactly what number you are looking for. It appears 9,000 is not enough, and 250,000 is too many...pick a number in between...maybe they will listen to you yet again.

 

Dave

 

 

 

good point - in a way they have done this - I think you are correct about pick a number as for me to do that would be a random draw. My fear is they miss the window that is open now where they are the only one in the market. If they put out too many 2007's they would sell in 2008 no worries. If they wait and try to saturate the market in late 2008/2009 and the comp. is there then they may sit a lot more. In theory wouldn't it make sense to front load the process as much as possible?

 

Then again "In theory communism works, in theory" - Homer Simpson

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and in another report, they were suggesting that the Ford family is shopping for a new CEO. Ithink I'd be too if the company was losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year, year after year.

 

"Family is family, but business is...business" (Michael Corleone?)

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One other matter to consider in production numbers of Shelby's is suppliers.... ie. How many Tremec six speeds can be produced in a month? How many Eaton superchargers? It was rumored Ford wanted to go with a Lysholm twin screw supercharger. However, Lysholm could not supply what Ford would need. These are the items which make this stang more desirable since they are not easily available from a factory production standpoint at this time. IMHO

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One other matter to consider in production numbers of Shelby's is suppliers.... ie. How many Tremec six speeds can be produced in a month? How many Eaton superchargers? It was rumored Ford wanted to go with a Lysholm twin screw supercharger. However, Lysholm could not supply what Ford would need. These are the items which make this stang more desirable since they are not easily available from a factory production standpoint at this time. IMHO

 

+1

 

This has been discussed before. However, apparently there are some people that think Tremecs grow on trees.

 

Dave

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I, for one, am frustrated that don't have my car yet. And I'm frustrated that my dealer doesn't have any information for me. There. I said it.

 

But, even though Ford could have handled a number items better, the fact is no one is perfect...not me, not you, and not the executives and managers at Ford. I think the bottom line is the interest and demand for this car are simply very very high. Even if Ford anticipated this level of excitement (...and it may have...), I think we'd still have all the "problems" that we currently have.

 

I remind myself of two things:

 

1. The "problems" we have are just a result of Ford producing what appears to be a great car that is highly desirable...production is relatively limited (certainly in the short run)...and a bunch of folks want the car big-time. And I am so happy I live in a system where production of cars such as the GT500 is encouraged and rewarded even if I can't get one exactly when I want it at the price I want to pay. The alternatives to our system (and I'm talking our economic and legal system) are not nearly as good.

 

2. My relatively mild case of PSDS is my problem...it isn't the result of the "big bad" dealer network or screwups on Ford's part or someone doing something bad to me...it is simply the result of my desire for instant gratification. I know a number of people who want one of these cars but they are not suffering from stress, anger, etc., even though they are exposed to the very same inputs. Nope...they've simply done what they can (e.g. get on a list, stay in touch with dealer...in some cases, just checking out and waiting until next year or forgetting about the car altogether) and they let it go at that. They recognize they have very little control...that very strong (market) forces are at work...and they have better ways to spend their time than obsessing about a car...or getting angry with Ford, dealers, "wealthy" buyers, etc.

 

By the way, I've chosen the obsession route but I'm thinking I should change because I'm be better off spending time with my family than spending it here shooting the breeze...after all, it's just a car and nothing I post here will get the car to me any sooner, cheaper, etc. Heck, most of what I read or post here doesn't even make me feel better...it's just a way to kill time and relieve stress instead of biting my fingernails, kicking the dog, etc.

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Guest evilchris

The dealers are what are ruining Ford. Go into a BMW dealership and note the professionalism and courtesy. Go into Ford and be treated like crap. If Ford wants to sell $50k Shelby's, $50k SUV's, and sometimes $150k supercars, their dealers need to learn how to act.

 

Funniest thing ever was when my boss went into Kearney Mesa Ford a few years back when the GT launched, they had like 500 of those " THE PACE CAR FOR AN ENTIRE COMPANY " banners everywhere. Even the GM had no clue about the car.

 

Now you go in and ask about the Shelby and they promptly lie about production numbers, say it's faster than Corvette Z06's etc. They can't answer a single question about the car but want you to pay $80k for it? yeah OK. Some prick at Kearney Mesa Ford told me Ford is only making 250 of them so if I want one I better BUY NOW.

 

Another good one was when Pearson Ford got their 1st Shelby in, I asked what options it had, you know, like Shaker 1000, Sirius etc. The jackass said " Uh this one's got the V8 engine, manual transmission, leather seats". NICE OPTIONS A-HOLE, thanks for listing the STANDARD FEATURES for me. Then I asked him what they want for the car, and I get " why don't ya come down and lets make a deal ". I asked again " instead of wasting each others time can you just tell me the ADM you are after?" " why don't ya come down and lets make a deal ". A-holes. I've never had such bad experiences with car dealers as I have with Ford dealers.

 

Ford can make all the great cars they want but until they can get at least ONE PERCENT of dealers educated on the product and get them to act PROFESSIONAL, they're screwed.

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I, for one, am frustrated that don't have my car yet. And I'm frustrated that my dealer doesn't have any information for me. There. I said it.

 

But, even though Ford could have handled a number items better, the fact is no one is perfect...not me, not you, and not the executives and managers at Ford. I think the bottom line is the interest and demand for this car are simply very very high. Even if Ford anticipated this level of excitement (...and it may have...), I think we'd still have all the "problems" that we currently have.

 

I remind myself of two things:

 

1. The "problems" we have are just a result of Ford producing what appears to be a great car that is highly desirable...production is relatively limited (certainly in the short run)...and a bunch of folks want the car big-time. And I am so happy I live in a system where production of cars such as the GT500 is encouraged and rewarded even if I can't get one exactly when I want it at the price I want to pay. The alternatives to our system (and I'm talking our economic and legal system) are not nearly as good.

 

2. My relatively mild case of PSDS is my problem...it isn't the result of the "big bad" dealer network or screwups on Ford's part or someone doing something bad to me...it is simply the result of my desire for instant gratification. I know a number of people who want one of these cars but they are not suffering from stress, anger, etc., even though they are exposed to the very same inputs. Nope...they've simply done what they can (e.g. get on a list, stay in touch with dealer...in some cases, just checking out and waiting until next year or forgetting about the car altogether) and they let it go at that. They recognize they have very little control...that very strong (market) forces are at work...and they have better ways to spend their time than obsessing about a car...or getting angry with Ford, dealers, "wealthy" buyers, etc.

 

By the way, I've chosen the obsession route but I'm thinking I should change because I'm be better off spending time with my family than spending it here shooting the breeze...after all, it's just a car and nothing I post here will get the car to me any sooner, cheaper, etc. Heck, most of what I read or post here doesn't even make me feel better...it's just a way to kill time and relieve stress instead of biting my fingernails, kicking the dog, etc.

 

 

 

poor dog

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I think you guys are all right on the money -it's not easy and the frustration is driven by the demand/desire for the car. I also stand by my feelings that after listening to the Ford annual report many things should be looked at and maybe other options investigated.

 

I am not offerin ght solution, just the critisism and I realize this but as I start to deal with this and become less irritated with the whole thing I still think that some options need to be looked at through a different light.

 

I think one of the best points on here is around the pars supply - I admittedly had not thought about that little tid bit.

 

And while I have to admitt even the Evil one has a bit of a point most of the sales reps I've talked to are decent - maybe not too well informed as it seems those on here know more but I've rarely run into the rep that knows absolutely nothing....outside of some really hot bimbo at the pontiac dealer that likely sells more cars than any one and doesn't know how many doors a car right in front of her has.....but I still talked to her and suspect others will too.

 

In anycase thank you for the intelligent comments and allowing me to vent - just immagine if I still owned that stock how bad i would have been.

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I think you guys are all right on the money -it's not easy and the frustration is driven by the demand/desire for the car. I also stand by my feelings that after listening to the Ford annual report many things should be looked at and maybe other options investigated.

 

I am not offerin ght solution, just the critisism and I realize this but as I start to deal with this and become less irritated with the whole thing I still think that some options need to be looked at through a different light.

 

I think one of the best points on here is around the pars supply - I admittedly had not thought about that little tid bit.

 

And while I have to admitt even the Evil one has a bit of a point most of the sales reps I've talked to are decent - maybe not too well informed as it seems those on here know more but I've rarely run into the rep that knows absolutely nothing....outside of some really hot bimbo at the pontiac dealer that likely sells more cars than any one and doesn't know how many doors a car right in front of her has.....but I still talked to her and suspect others will too.

 

In anycase thank you for the intelligent comments and allowing me to vent - just immagine if I still owned that stock how bad i would have been.

 

Hang in there ice...many people are hoping things improve....such as pricing, production/month, and so on. Ford will "get their groove on" regarding production, and we'll start seeing lots of people on the forum receiving their cars in the next month or so IMHO.

 

Dave

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