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Why Ford is in financial trouble


lonnyreed

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Order an SGT now because Ford will be out of business by this time next year at this rate. Any of you out there waiting for a possible 08 GT 350 should forget about it if all of the dealers out there are as smart as mine……get this.

I had the same experience that many of you have talked about…..finding a dealer that knew what an SGT was….printing out posts from Amy to help them determine the price…..being surprised when they decided that they needed to add $8,000 ADM to the price…..ended up settling for a $2,200 ADM just because I was tired of standing in their showroom for hours on end, waiting for someone to help me. The list goes on and on…..but we’ve all heard this stuff before. ;)

When I signed the financing papers, I told them I would like to put $10K down. They financed the rest. That was the first week in February, I picked my car up at SAI on February 23rd and have been ENJOYING it ever since. Only problem is….they forgot to take my $10,000 and it appears that they don’t know it and don’t care. :o At first, I thought that they would realize the error in a day or two and I was waiting for the opportunity to hand deliver a check to the dealership and let them know how I felt about the whole transaction. Now that it has been 6 weeks, I have my car and have made the first payment; I need to get the check to them. I thought about sending an anonymous letter stating that I have purchased a car in the past 6 months, there was a $10K error in my favor, and it is their job to find out who I am <_< ….or should I just take the check in, explain the error and leave it? :blink: What do you guys think?

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Kinda the same story for me. I seen a SGT at a dealership ( it was not for sale). Talked with a friend that had a good relationship with another dealer. Told him I would buy one if the price was not bad. They told him they would sell me one they already had on order. I could also have it for sticker price.....$31555.00 !

Went and payed $500.00 to hold in my name. I Told my buddy that I would get a call later when they figured out that there was another window sticker gonna be on that car for $8700.00 for Shelby upgrade. Sure enough they called several days later. I am still paying $31555.00 plus $8700.00 so I am happy.

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Kinda the same story for me. I seen a SGT at a dealership ( it was not for sale). Talked with a friend that had a good relationship with another dealer. Told him I would buy one if the price was not bad. They told him they would sell me one they already had on order. I could also have it for sticker price.....$31555.00 !

Went and payed $500.00 to hold in my name. I Told my buddy that I would get a call later when they figured out that there was another window sticker gonna be on that car for $8700.00 for Shelby upgrade. Sure enough they called several days later. I am still paying $31555.00 plus $8700.00 so I am happy.

 

You are paying too much because the Shelby package isn't 8700 it is 8390.

7390 for the package plus 1000 gas guzzler tax. I paid the same price of 31,555.00. I hpe that helps you. Have a nice day.

 

Kinda the same story for me. I seen a SGT at a dealership ( it was not for sale). Talked with a friend that had a good relationship with another dealer. Told him I would buy one if the price was not bad. They told him they would sell me one they already had on order. I could also have it for sticker price.....$31555.00 !

Went and payed $500.00 to hold in my name. I Told my buddy that I would get a call later when they figured out that there was another window sticker gonna be on that car for $8700.00 for Shelby upgrade. Sure enough they called several days later. I am still paying $31555.00 plus $8700.00 so I am happy.

 

You are paying too much because the Shelby package isn't 8700 it is 8390.

7390 for the package plus 1000 gas guzzler tax. I paid the same price of 31,555.00. I hpe that helps you. Have a nice day.

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Tell them you already paid them $50,000 and they now owe YOU $10,000. ;) That was a joke for all you uptight bunion eaters. Ford will figure it out in a few days so don't even sweat it. If they don't and you feel guilty then buy an extra $10,000 in racing parts for the SGT from them. :)

 

I talked to probably close to 100 Ford dealers while trying to nail down a deal for a Shelby. I didn't need financing, or anything. The only reason they settled on only $2,200 additional markup for you is because they gave you a big interest rate and they know they will get about $8,000 markup in the end anyway. All the Ford dealers I talked to expected to get many thousands over the MSRP in markup.

 

The experience is a huge hassle. I know exactly what you went through times 100. Sometimes I think they're all on crack because it is hard to believe how clueless they are about the important details.

 

Congrats on the cool car.

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Ben, That my be what I will have to pay. $8700.00 is what was added to the window sticker on the car that was not for sale. My dealer called me when he figured out the additional Shelby charge and said it was gonna be around $8000.00 more than he first thought. I just assumed it would be the same as I had seen on the other car.

 

WWJD

 

What would Jesus do......... the best way to handle any decisions

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You know, they will eventually find out and reconcile this, at that time they will think you tried to skate..... its your name... they always find out

 

 

Amy

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You know, they will eventually find out and reconcile this, at that time they will think you tried to skate..... its your name... they always find out

Amy

 

 

Agreed, they will eventually find out and there may be legal actions they can take against you depending on your state laws. Eventually they will have an audit, they always do, and then it will be your name that you have to live with.

 

Like they said above you are the one that has to look in the mirror. Remember if you have a younger sibling, child or whomever that looks up to you this will also impact them as well.

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Agreed, they will eventually find out and there may be legal actions they can take against you depending on your state laws. Eventually they will have an audit, they always do, and then it will be your name that you have to live with.

 

Like they said above you are the one that has to look in the mirror. Remember if you have a younger sibling, child or whomever that looks up to you this will also impact them as well.

WHOAAAAH. Hold on guys, I didn't say I had even considered not paying. I was just telling a story I considered to be moderately funny given the hassle we have all dealt with buying our cars from dealers who are supposed to be the "experts".

WWJD???? Jesus would have taken the check to them, but he would have had something witty to say when he did. Not being a "witty" guy myself, I am looking for suggestions. ;)

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Haha thats an awesome story I love the fact that the dealership is letting 10,000 bucks go without freaking out especially with a car such as this one which at most dealers is prized as gold from theirpoint of view as to there ability to make money off it. But let them figure it out. By the way Ford won't be outta business but that dealer may be pretty soon if thats the common way for them to do business. Ford will bounce back once the owners of dealerships start to feel the loss that my buddies here in Norfolk felt when we lost our factory which just so happens to have been here for several generations. But oh well I geuss when owner of ford dealership can't just take cars off the lot for joy rides anymore because he has to have enough sold to keep his dealership open they may figure out they need to be alittle kinder to their customers. Fords here to stay I and many other loyal customers will make sure of that however some dealers may find themselves cleaning the tires off our Shelby Mustangs... :)

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LR66...were they still clueless ? :o

 

Absolutely....

The best part was while I was leaving (all of the sales people had congregated around my car), I could hear my sales guy say "THAT is a Shelby GT". Maybe the next Shelby guy that walks in there won't have to explain it to them.

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Absolutely....

The best part was while I was leaving (all of the sales people had congregated around my car), I could hear my sales guy say "THAT is a Shelby GT". Maybe the next Shelby guy that walks in there won't have to explain it to them.

 

 

 

A lot of the dealers refer to the Shelby GT as an "H" in reference to the Hertz. But they are two different cars. Motor Trend seems to prefer the former in their lastest article after having reviewed both Shelbys now.

 

The dealers are mostly clueless. I met one salesman at a Ford dealer that was a big Mustang buff and he seemed to know all the history. Very rare to find someone with knowledge of the product at a dealer anymore though.

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A lot of the dealers refer to the Shelby GT as an "H" in reference to the Hertz. But they are two different cars. Motor Trend seems to prefer the former in their lastest article after having reviewed both Shelbys now.

 

The dealers are mostly clueless. I met one salesman at a Ford dealer that was a big Mustang buff and he seemed to know all the history. Very rare to find someone with knowledge of the product at a dealer anymore though.

 

one of the few things I will agree on with ya lucky it is rare to find a dealer that knows about the car and you think a name like shelby thats been in movies might ring into someone trying to sell mustangs on the lot.

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one of the few things I will agree on with ya lucky it is rare to find a dealer that knows about the car and you think a name like shelby thats been in movies might ring into someone trying to sell mustangs on the lot.

 

 

What could you possibly disagree with me on?? :(

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That was a funny story!

 

But to answer why a lot of dealers were clueless to this car and mostly clueless to the pricing on this car was all because FORD!

 

It was FORD that told dealers about the car, FORD published order guides and price lists, BUT....What FORD failed to do was inform the dealers about the added charges coming from SAI on the $7390 + the $1000 gas guzzler tax!

 

The pricing guide FORD published only showed the shelby GT upfitters price of $2,140. This was the ONLY pricing given to the dealers pertaining the Shelby GT.

 

So dealers were under the impression that the $2,140 WAS the cost of Shelby upfit being done by SAI.

 

Then AFTER some dealers had already sold these cars FORD eventually came back and informed the dealers about the additional $7,390 plus $1,000 gas guzzler tax that would be billed seperately to the dealers PARTS STATEMENT! It wasn't until after all this and then some dealers that started complaining about a $8,390 charge showing up on their parts statement until FORD came back and OOPS!!!! Oh yeah, dealers will be charged an additional $8,390 for the SAI cost on the Shelby GT!

 

Then the first cars to hit came with the addendum sticker showing the added mark up to include the $8390 from SAI. Which was another OOPS! by Ford. The $8390 is DEALER COST! So Ford left no RETAIL mark up for the dealers, which dealers complained about on that!

 

Now it is my understanding that the cars coming in from SAI now will NOT include any pricing on their window sticker where dealers can mark up the $7,390 charge that is the dealers actual COST!

 

So it was FORD that made a big mess of this in the beginning as to why some of the dealers were selling these at what was THOUGHT to be MSRP! They were never properly informed about the added $8,390 charge from SAI.

 

So then of course after some dealers had made deals to sell these at the MSRP price which was only the MSRP of the GT Mustang only and didn't include the $8390 cost they were later informed about after the fact, is when those dealers had to contact their customers and explain the mix up. So it wasn;t because of stupid dealers, it was because of stupid FORD for failing to tell their dealers about the added cost that dealers were mislead to think the $2140 for the ufitters charge was the cost from SAI.

 

Now about that $10k mix up on that dealer that forgot to collect that. FORD would have nothing to do with that and FORD would not even get involved with it! That is all on the dealer. Ford collects their money from the dealer. The dealer EATS any mistakes. Ford doesn't care about the dealer's mistakes. Ford will just charge back the dealer and the dealer is stuck with it, period!

 

Now in this case the dealer made extra money anyway because of their added mark up. Otherwise the dealer would have taken a bath on that one had you not been honest and went back to pay them their money. Even if the dealer called you back, once you got the car and the payment book from the lender and the car has been registered, you could have told the dealer to go pound sand and there would have been nothing they could have done about it! Ask me how I know this???

 

Also, just to give another example, we had a customer that purchased a Harley Truck. Ford had shown on their C&I sheet that it had a $3000 rebate. So the deal was done where the customer was given the $3000 rebate. The F&I guy didn't check vincent which showed there was no rebate for the Harley Truck, So do you think FORD got involved and called the customer??? Heck no! As far as FORD is concerned that is the dealer's problem! So the dealer has to collect from the customer or EAT the $3000! They called the customer to explain the problem that there wasn't a rebate on that truck. Guess what the customer says? Not my problem! I have a contract! To bad! And hung up! That was that. The dealer lost $3000!

 

So in your case the dealer was very lucky to have had a honest customer that came back to give them the $10k they forgot to collect. They may have even later caught it when they closed out the sale but figured you wouldn't come back anyway and just wrote it off! I'm sure someone got their behind chewed royal after you came back and paid that and for them forgetting to collect it in the first place!

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Ford has made some mistakes for sure. I was very frustrated at first, and even posted about it. John, and the folks at Shelby have been great.

 

I do understand that Ford has made some mistakes on this. But at what point is the dealer supposed to be held accountable.

 

This is going to be a bit of a rant.

 

In the case of a shelby, my understanding is that the Ford computer system (vincent? concepts?) not sure which one, but either way the Ford dealers had a way to know the pricing on the Shelby GT at some point in Mid-December, if they checked all available information.

 

Now say a customer cut a deal in late December for said Shelby for 31K. Written up on an offer sheet, down payment given etc. At this point the customer thinks they are also paying over MSRP. Now keep in mind that the dealer already had information on pricing, if they looked properly on the car. With limited information on the car, SHOULDN'T a dealer look for all information in all spots? Even make a call before selling a car known to be limited addtion?

 

So, the car gets ordered and finally released to the dealer 1.5 months later? Not 1 week, not 15 days, but 45 days later. Say that customer goes in, and purchases the car for 31k. Does the financing etc, titles the car etc. During this time you also know the dealer has talked to their Ford rep on multiple occasions regarding how the car will be shipped, released, etc.

 

Now say two weeks after that the dealer gets billed from Shelby and finally realizes that they charged the customer too little. Now it's 2.5 months after the pricing was released and 2 months after the customer originally wrote up a contract for the car. The dealer has sold their 2nd Shelby GT also after the first one. The customer has already bought, and titled the car.

 

The dealer now calls up and asks the customer to come back in and re-do the paperwork because they screwed up and didn't realize shelby would be charging them $8350.00 more. But offers a great deal because they screwed up. Dealer also talks about how they got 3k over on the 2nd shelby they sold.

 

I'm sorry, but at what point is the dealer responsible for their own actions? God knows that sales reps, sales managers, finance guys, and owners get involved on a lot of deals.

 

Regarding the Harley Pick-Up. Again, if dealers know that the Ford advertising etc isn't always accurate, but the "vincent" system is, shouldn't the F + I guy always check that system before finalizing a deal?

 

On some level I feel bad for the sales guys, they are at the mercy of many market conditions etc. Some ar hard working and honest. But I also know that the car industry has built it's own reputation. Customers didn't just decide to mis-trust dealers? When my grandparents went into buy a Buick and bought it at MSRP, the dealer didn't offer to discount it, they sold it for MSRP. While you or I could go in and get it for 1000's less.

 

If a consumer benefits from a dealer not checking all sources, should they offer to give the money back?

 

Now this is off-topic. For the original poster, if they agreed to give 10k down and know that it wasn't taken, I applaud him for going back in. That was the agreement, that is a different scenerio.

 

But I also feel bad for many folks who thought they bought this car for a certain price, and got calls to come back in. Budgets are made, hopes are dashed etc.

 

We as consumers know more now because of the internet. But that shouldn't change the responsibility of the business (in this case, Ford and the dealerships) to know their business.

 

I'm in sales myself. So, bottom of the totem pole. But if I get a new product and agree to sell it to a customer for 5K before I have it, and it turns out that it really sells for 7.5K, I'm going to honor my contract, or realize if I don't I could go to court and lose, or lose that customer forever.

 

My choices - fight like hell with my company to honor the price I agreed to based on what they told me, pull the deal and suffer the consequences (lost business forever, lawsuit, or maybe nothing), or I could ask the customer to pay more.

 

If the customer pays more, great. Lucky day for me. But if they don't, I can't blame them and accept there are consequences to my actions. I completly understand this.

 

I'm just tired of excuses by the car industry. At some point you have to suck it up and do your job correctly.

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Sorry for the above rant, but yesterday I went car shopping for my wife (mini-van time, argh) and dealt with the "industry" again. Warning, this post is more or less WAY off topic.

 

I live in Michigan and God knows our economy is tanked, mainly because of the car industry.

 

I try to buy american. My last 3 cars have been american. I have the choice on my company car of American (explorer), or non-american (nameless car that is likely a better car than the explorer).

 

I get the explorer to try and support my economy, country, and friends that work for US auto companies.

 

I bought a Shelby.

 

But we went Mini-Van shopping. Checked out several, and even alternatives (because the US mini-van's paled in comparison we looked at the new GMC Acadia).

 

But at the end of the day the Honda Mini-van KICKED THE LIVING CRAP out of everything else out there. I found myself Angry that our companies, and our country can't suck it up and build a better f-ing car. I felt bad, but even friends that worked for GM and Ford agreed.

 

Then I dealt with buying a car, having to play dealers off of each other etc. Honda dealers - still a pain.

 

So, I guess it gets back to the original post in this respect. I get a little tired of excuses by Ford and GM on why things aren't right. I understand some of it at a Macro level (pension costs etc.).

 

But it does all start at the dealer level, and the individual consumer with experiences ranging from dealer experience to long term ownership experience.

 

At some point it's on Ford/GM and the dealerships to figure this out. For some, a bad experience buying a Shelby could be the start of bad feelings towards Ford. Or a great experience (honoring a deal, acting happy about it and still trying to please a consumer long term), might be worth that small hit on profit you take by doing so.

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Sorry for the above rant, but yesterday I went car shopping for my wife (mini-van time, argh) and dealt with the "industry" again. Warning, this post is more or less WAY off topic.

 

I live in Michigan and God knows our economy is tanked, mainly because of the car industry.

 

I try to buy american. My last 3 cars have been american. I have the choice on my company car of American (explorer), or non-american (nameless car that is likely a better car than the explorer).

 

I get the explorer to try and support my economy, country, and friends that work for US auto companies.

 

I bought a Shelby.

 

But we went Mini-Van shopping. Checked out several, and even alternatives (because the US mini-van's paled in comparison we looked at the new GMC Acadia).

 

But at the end of the day the Honda Mini-van KICKED THE LIVING CRAP out of everything else out there. I found myself Angry that our companies, and our country can't suck it up and build a better f-ing car. I felt bad, but even friends that worked for GM and Ford agreed.

 

Then I dealt with buying a car, having to play dealers off of each other etc. Honda dealers - still a pain.

 

So, I guess it gets back to the original post in this respect. I get a little tired of excuses by Ford and GM on why things aren't right. I understand some of it at a Macro level (pension costs etc.).

 

But it does all start at the dealer level, and the individual consumer with experiences ranging from dealer experience to long term ownership experience.

 

At some point it's on Ford/GM and the dealerships to figure this out. For some, a bad experience buying a Shelby could be the start of bad feelings towards Ford. Or a great experience (honoring a deal, acting happy about it and still trying to please a consumer long term), might be worth that small hit on profit you take by doing so.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (even put it on my Ford Customer Experience Evaluation)....Ford....and maybe the entire auto industry needs to take a trip to SAI, sit down with their little yellow notebooks with the management there and learn what CUSTOMER SERVICE AND INTEGRITY is.

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Ford has made some mistakes for sure. I was very frustrated at first, and even posted about it. John, and the folks at Shelby have been great.

 

I do understand that Ford has made some mistakes on this. But at what point is the dealer supposed to be held accountable.

 

This is going to be a bit of a rant.

 

In the case of a shelby, my understanding is that the Ford computer system (vincent? concepts?) not sure which one, but either way the Ford dealers had a way to know the pricing on the Shelby GT at some point in Mid-December, if they checked all available information.

 

Now say a customer cut a deal in late December for said Shelby for 31K. Written up on an offer sheet, down payment given etc. At this point the customer thinks they are also paying over MSRP. Now keep in mind that the dealer already had information on pricing, if they looked properly on the car. With limited information on the car, SHOULDN'T a dealer look for all information in all spots? Even make a call before selling a car known to be limited addtion?

 

So, the car gets ordered and finally released to the dealer 1.5 months later? Not 1 week, not 15 days, but 45 days later. Say that customer goes in, and purchases the car for 31k. Does the financing etc, titles the car etc. During this time you also know the dealer has talked to their Ford rep on multiple occasions regarding how the car will be shipped, released, etc.

 

Now say two weeks after that the dealer gets billed from Shelby and finally realizes that they charged the customer too little. Now it's 2.5 months after the pricing was released and 2 months after the customer originally wrote up a contract for the car. The dealer has sold their 2nd Shelby GT also after the first one. The customer has already bought, and titled the car.

 

The dealer now calls up and asks the customer to come back in and re-do the paperwork because they screwed up and didn't realize shelby would be charging them $8350.00 more. But offers a great deal because they screwed up. Dealer also talks about how they got 3k over on the 2nd shelby they sold.

 

I'm sorry, but at what point is the dealer responsible for their own actions? God knows that sales reps, sales managers, finance guys, and owners get involved on a lot of deals.

 

Regarding the Harley Pick-Up. Again, if dealers know that the Ford advertising etc isn't always accurate, but the "vincent" system is, shouldn't the F + I guy always check that system before finalizing a deal?

 

On some level I feel bad for the sales guys, they are at the mercy of many market conditions etc. Some ar hard working and honest. But I also know that the car industry has built it's own reputation. Customers didn't just decide to mis-trust dealers? When my grandparents went into buy a Buick and bought it at MSRP, the dealer didn't offer to discount it, they sold it for MSRP. While you or I could go in and get it for 1000's less.

 

If a consumer benefits from a dealer not checking all sources, should they offer to give the money back?

 

Now this is off-topic. For the original poster, if they agreed to give 10k down and know that it wasn't taken, I applaud him for going back in. That was the agreement, that is a different scenerio.

 

But I also feel bad for many folks who thought they bought this car for a certain price, and got calls to come back in. Budgets are made, hopes are dashed etc.

 

We as consumers know more now because of the internet. But that shouldn't change the responsibility of the business (in this case, Ford and the dealerships) to know their business.

 

I'm in sales myself. So, bottom of the totem pole. But if I get a new product and agree to sell it to a customer for 5K before I have it, and it turns out that it really sells for 7.5K, I'm going to honor my contract, or realize if I don't I could go to court and lose, or lose that customer forever.

 

My choices - fight like hell with my company to honor the price I agreed to based on what they told me, pull the deal and suffer the consequences (lost business forever, lawsuit, or maybe nothing), or I could ask the customer to pay more.

 

If the customer pays more, great. Lucky day for me. But if they don't, I can't blame them and accept there are consequences to my actions. I completly understand this.

 

I'm just tired of excuses by the car industry. At some point you have to suck it up and do your job correctly.

 

 

 

 

>>>In the case of a shelby, my understanding is that the Ford computer system (vincent? concepts?) not sure which one, but either way the Ford dealers had a way to know the pricing on the Shelby GT at some point in Mid-December, if they checked all available information.<<<<<

 

Nope! This was the problem! There was NOTHING to let the dealer know about the added cost. In fact, a few dealers had posted they could not believe the car was only going to be around $31k MSRP. When they went into concepts to spec out and order the car NOTHING pertaining to the $7390 and $1000 gas guzzler tax was in the system. This is WHY there was a mix up on what actual pricing would be. Prior to Ford releasing any information about this added cost dealers already had cars on order and were selling them.

 

It wasn't until late Dec. when Ford posted this information on their dealers web site. AFTER dealers had placed orders and sold the car. Some dealers didn't know until after the charge showed up on their parts statement afterwards.

 

As for the Harley Truck deal, yes, that was the F&I guy's job to check vincent before closing the deal. Ford did list it by mistake, but the dealer is responsible to check vincent for accuracy and verify any incentives. Even if it was in vincent and then changed the following day before the dealer reports the sale to Ford, the dealer had better entered the customer's information and print the vincent out as proof it was there. Even if we print it out and don't enter the customer's info it will not be honored even though it was there at the time! Ford is very strict on all this.

 

I can't tell you how many times we have to deal with upset customers that come in and have printed incentives off of FORD's web site that is not accurate. They can change anything at any time! If it is not in vincent then it won't apply regardless of whether Ford made a mistake or not on anything they advertised.

 

Another good example was when Ford offered the auto show cash. Ford sent notice to dealers that beginning on such and such date that there will be an ADDITIONAL $1000 auto show cash in ADDITION TO all current incentives! OK, great! BUT! What FORD failed to do was tell the dealers that FORD was taking away a $1000 of the CURRENT REBATE to offset the ADDITIONAL $1000 auto show cash! So a lot of dealers ran ads with the understanding that Ford was ADDING AN ADDITIONAL $1000 and advertised prices based on that information! Good thing for small disclosures pertaining to misprinted price errors!

 

So what FORD did was just CHANGED CUURENT REBATES to offset the added auto show cash. Even customers were p.o'd over that! A lot of customers came back to buy thinking they would be getting an extra $1000 when they seen FORD's advertising on TV about getting an extra $1000 auto show cash IN ADDITION to all current incentives. What the customers didn't know was that there were NEW CURRENT INCENTIVES effective the same day the auto show cash started! So instead of the $3000 rebate on a new F150 PLUS and extra $1000 auto show cash, FORD had changed the $3000 rebate to a $2000 rebate and a $1000 auto show cash! THEN, the day after the auto show cash expires the $3000 rebate goes back in effect! Now talk about your tipical bait & switch!

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