68fastback Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I have both cars, the vette and the shelby, they are different cars. As far as those limp wristed Porche drivers in Car and Driver, they sandbag their tests. Fact is, Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords did there own test, ran 12.24 which is quicker than the Z-51. This is not that much slower than my ZO6. Face it guys, the are both great American cars. Also if you happened to read Hot Rod Magazine, all of the preproduction magazine cars were down on horsepower due to their "smokey tune" per Ford. ZO6's are also still commanding 20k over sticker. The Shelby is a lot better than the Import loving press wants you to believe. They even thing the Porche interior with its old Super Beetle dashboard and guages is better than the Vette and probably the Mustang. +1, carnut.... ...and C&D seems so damn skewed against Ford IMHO. I won't go into it here, but I've seen too many questionable evaluations from C&D over the years to take everything they say about FoMoCo products at full face value -- maybe that's just me though. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 2007 Z06's can be had for $5000 over sticker at ANY dealer in San Diego. In addition, MM&FF's test was bs as they powershifted second. Powershift the Z51 to compare. Midway Chevrolet, Phoenix AZ, 20K over, no negotiation, sell 3-4 a month. So what's up with powershifting, that's like saying Muhamed Ali hit me too hard. The Corvette can be powershifted too, course it goes sideways. I think you are missing the point. Read this months Car and Driver and see of the F430 / Porsche / Z06 test is fair, I think they power shifted the Ferrari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Midway Chevrolet, Phoenix AZ, 20K over, no negotiation, sell 3-4 a month. So what's up with powershifting, that's like saying Muhamed Ali hit me too hard. The Corvette can be powershifted too, course it goes sideways. I think you are missing the point. Read this months Car and Driver and see of the F430 / Porsche / Z06 test is fair, I think they power shifted the Ferrari You are missing the point. For cars to be compared, they have to be tested using the same test methodology. How about we test the GT500 1/4 mile in the rain at 6000 feet, and the Z51 at sea level on an overcast day. Sound good? You have decided to use a time reported by one of the best Mustang drivers in the world ( Evan Smith ) and compare to a Car and Driver Z51 time. Totally retarded. I guess Midway in Phoenix sets the market then even though 10x as many are sold on the west coast for $5k over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Fascinating. Think back 10 years. Did you think this sort of dialog would be taking place? American muscle - regardless of brand - is back, baby. And it's all Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 I just called Midway and they said they get 1 and *occasionally* 2 in some months and they sell for $5k over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 You are missing the point. For cars to be compared, they have to be tested using the same test methodology. How about we test the GT500 1/4 mile in the rain at 6000 feet, and the Z51 at sea level on an overcast day. Sound good? You have decided to use a time reported by one of the best Mustang drivers in the world ( Evan Smith ) and compare to a Car and Driver Z51 time. Totally retarded. I guess Midway in Phoenix sets the market then even though 10x as many are sold on the west coast for $5k over. My point is Car and Driver testers are a bunch off sissys that dont know what a power shift is. They don't like American cars, I hope your read the article. Chevrolet claims 12.6 for the Z51 and they have always used the best times they can muster, using some really good professional drivers. The Shelby did not get a fair shake, period (down on power, preproduction press cars, read Hot Rod again) I have done a lot Mustang drag racing and it does take a little skill to get to really good et's, so, of course I know about altitude, air density, track conditions etc. If 5k is the norm in San Diego, then that should be great news for the Shelby buyers, ADM's should tank then for Shelby's in San Diego. Assuming they can get them. I just called Midway and they said they get 1 and *occasionally* 2 in some months and they sell for $5k over. Really, I was in there this morning yanking their chain, must not like my demeanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 My point is Car and Driver testers are a bunch off sissys that dont know what a power shift is. They don't like American cars, I hope your read the article. Chevrolet claims 12.6 for the Z51 and they have always used the best times they can muster, using some really good professional drivers. The Shelby did not get a fair shake, period (down on power, preproduction press cars, read Hot Rod again) I have done a lot Mustang drag racing and it does take a little skill to get to really good et's, so, of course I know about altitude, air density, track conditions etc. If 5k is the norm in San Diego, then that should be great news for the Shelby buyers, ADM's should tank then for Shelby's in San Diego. Assuming they can get them. Really, I was in there this morning yanking their chain, must not like my demeanor. They probably were. If you acted serious they'd have told you the actual price. Much like Bob Baker "asking " $25k for their GT500 but when I said wow I'd buy it but that's BS.... all of sudden $10k came off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hmmmm... I'm starting to wonder if the new game isn't actually an old one: quote 5K over as their price, but when you go there that's the price for the Nth unit in the future that they don't have yet, because the magic 'list' is full of 'high-ADM' offerers. I've seen this game before. "Oh, you wanted one NOW for $5K over? No, that's when the list runs down! Give us your name and we'll let you koow." Of course, the list doesn't run down until the price gets to MSRP and the price doesn't get to MSRP as long as there's a list that everyone believes is full of high ADM offers. Cha-ching! There's actually a clever name for this old scam (if that's what's happening -- dunno), but I can't recall it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hmmmm... I'm starting to wonder if the new game isn't actually an old one: quote 5K over as their price, but when you go there that's the price for the Nth unit in the future that they don't have yet, because the magic 'list' is full of 'high-ADM' offerers. I've seen this game before. "Oh, you wanted one NOW for $5K over? No, that's when the list runs down! Give us your name and we'll let you koow." Of course, the list doesn't run down until the price gets to MSRP and the price doesn't get to MSRP as long as there's a list that everyone believes is full of high ADM offers. Cha-ching! There's actually a clever name for this old scam (if that's what's happening -- dunno), but I can't recall it. . It is the scam, I think the 5 is on the regular C-6, 15 on the vert and 20 on the Z06. I beat on them regularly until I got lucky with a dealer in Tucson. I know a number of people who have bought at the Midway dealership because they seem to have the largest stock in the state. The initial auto butler paint sealant is only a grand. I appears that my point is missed again and turned into a Vette vs Mustang fight that has been going on since 1965 and has not been resolved yet. I guess I will have to pick a fight with myself to see who really wins ( I have both). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleManiac Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 This dispute with the Gt500 being powershifted and the C6 not is bs. Like said the C6 does not do as good when u power shift it so the best way to get the best ET is to not power shift, The Gt500 is the opposite of this, the best way to get the best ET is to power shift. So whats not fair about this? Anyways were comparing 2 seat sports car against 4 passenger muscle car. The true test is when the camaro comes out and then it will be fair game, even still the low 12s Im hearing and the track times also tell me that the Gt500 holds up pretty dam good. I love the vettes and I love the mustangs there right now the last of american muscle, we should be bashing all the imports not each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 This dispute with the Gt500 being powershifted and the C6 not is bs. Like said the C6 does not do as good when u power shift it so the best way to get the best ET is to not power shift, The Gt500 is the opposite of this, the best way to get the best ET is to power shift. So whats not fair about this? Anyways were comparing 2 seat sports car against 4 passenger muscle car. The true test is when the camaro comes out and then it will be fair game, even still the low 12s Im hearing and the track times also tell me that the Gt500 holds up pretty dam good. I love the vettes and I love the mustangs there right now the last of american muscle, we should be bashing all the imports not each other. Hear Hear The man gets it, the new camaro may be a tad faster, maybe not. True American icons at the strip each driven with whatever it takes to get there the fastest. Maybe powershifted, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 I guess I will have to pick a fight with myself to see who really wins ( I have both). I submit you did. No need to fight when no one is watching the outcome grasshopper. If youve got both then you almost have the best of all worlds. Now about that Lotus Exige.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Go Kart with bodywork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 It is the scam, I think the 5 is on the regular C-6, 15 on the vert and 20 on the Z06. I beat on them regularly until I got lucky with a dealer in Tucson. I know a number of people who have bought at the Midway dealership because they seem to have the largest stock in the state. The initial auto butler paint sealant is only a grand. I appears that my point is missed again and turned into a Vette vs Mustang fight that has been going on since 1965 and has not been resolved yet. I guess I will have to pick a fight with myself to see who really wins ( I have both). Z06 is $5k over period, not a scam. You can buy one right now for that, in stock with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Z06 is $5k over period, not a scam. You can buy one right now for that, in stock with no problem. So tell me Chris, when are you going down to buy that zo6 It sounds like that is what you really want, it will be cheaper than the Shelby and you are obviously happier with it. Hmmmmmmmm? So tell me Chris, when are you going down to buy that zo6 It sounds like that is what you really want, it will be cheaper than the Shelby and you are obviously happier with it. Hmmmmmmmm? Send us pictures when you get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Sorry, you're mistaking me calling your BS on them being 20k over with me wanting to buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMO-GT500 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Z06 is $5k over period, not a scam. You can buy one right now for that, in stock with no problem. I've seen a couple of 06 in the KC newspaper (with a few hundred miles, must have been bought by broker or something) for 5K adm or less. They probably thought price would skyrocket and they are now bailing out. I really think 5K or less, at least in this part of the country. Also, shelby adm's going down here a bit. Sticker price is 20K, openly suggest 15K would get the car, but sounding like maybe less than 15K would go out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 I've seen a couple of 06 in the KC newspaper (with a few hundred miles, must have been bought by broker or something) for 5K adm or less. They probably thought price would skyrocket and they are now bailing out. I really think 5K or less, at least in this part of the country. Also, shelby adm's going down here a bit. Sticker price is 20K, openly suggest 15K would get the car, but sounding like maybe less than 15K would go out the door. Sounds like those are used cars?. I think you will see the same thing with the Shelby's in 6 months more or less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Sounds like those are used cars?. I think you will see the same thing with the Shelby's in 6 months more or less? Used Gt500's will be interesting. I know when I see one with just 100 miles on ebay I think "hm, what the hell did they do in those 100 miles" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 This dispute with the Gt500 being powershifted and the C6 not is bs. Like said the C6 does not do as good when u power shift it so the best way to get the best ET is to not power shift, The Gt500 is the opposite of this, the best way to get the best ET is to power shift. So whats not fair about this? Anyways were comparing 2 seat sports car against 4 passenger muscle car. The true test is when the camaro comes out and then it will be fair game, even still the low 12s Im hearing and the track times also tell me that the Gt500 holds up pretty dam good. I love the vettes and I love the mustangs there right now the last of american muscle, we should be bashing all the imports not each other. If it's unfair it's only because the long linkage back to the diff-mounted T56 on the 'vette makes it suck for power shifting, and the T56 is not as robust as the TR6060 in the mustang. So mastering powershifting in the 'vette is like playing Russian roulette with the synchros -- it's gonna get you eventually. That's why 'vette owners don't like powershifting. Hmmmm. That does seem unfair! :tease: <couldn't resist> . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMO-GT500 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 ..and hey, I have openly posted that I have some doubts about the shelby, and might be moving over to the Z06 side. The Z06 has a lot going for it, and performance wise, if you look at all aspects, it might be a much better value than a shelby with 5 - 10K adm. Hopefully no one will take shots at me, particularly since I think many of us are having these thoughts, even though they may not be expressed. My biggest Z06 concerns are the low stance (I am older and not a lightweight, ok, I am way too heavy) and the appearance of the shelby. For whatever reason, I just really like the looks of the shelby over the corvette. But man, when I think about the acceleration and the cornering, the Z06 really makes a strong arguement. Used Gt500's will be interesting. I know when I see one with just 100 miles on ebay I think "hm, what the hell did they do in those 100 miles" ..driven by an old lady on sundays, 1/4 at a time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 If it's unfair it's only because the long linkage back to the diff-mounted T56 on the 'vette makes it suck for power shifting, and the T56 is not as robust as the TR6060 in the mustang. So mastering powershifting in the 'vette is like playing Russian roulette with the synchros -- it's gonna get you eventually. That's why 'vette owners don't like powershifting. Hmmmm. That does seem unfair! :tease: <couldn't resist> . T56 is easy to powershift and strong as hell, it can put up with it easily. Powershifting will blow up a TR6060 just as easily. It is not a "bulletproof" transmission. I'd say it's 10% stronger max than a Viper spec T56. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 ..and hey, I have openly posted that I have some doubts about the shelby, and might be moving over to the Z06 side. The Z06 has a lot going for it, and performance wise, if you look at all aspects, it might be a much better value than a shelby with 5 - 10K adm. Hopefully no one will take shots at me, particularly since I think many of us are having these thoughts, even though they may not be expressed. My biggest Z06 concerns are the low stance (I am older and not a lightweight, ok, I am way too heavy) and the appearance of the shelby. For whatever reason, I just really like the looks of the shelby over the corvette. But man, when I think about the acceleration and the cornering, the Z06 really makes a strong arguement. ..driven by an old lady on sundays, 1/4 at a time... . Luke, I am your father.... resist the dark side... the mustang is your destiny... <lol> <we'll still like ya either way, but it won't be easy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 ..and hey, I have openly posted that I have some doubts about the shelby, and might be moving over to the Z06 side. The Z06 has a lot going for it, and performance wise, if you look at all aspects, it might be a much better value than a shelby with 5 - 10K adm. Hopefully no one will take shots at me, particularly since I think many of us are having these thoughts, even though they may not be expressed. My biggest Z06 concerns are the low stance (I am older and not a lightweight, ok, I am way too heavy) and the appearance of the shelby. For whatever reason, I just really like the looks of the shelby over the corvette. But man, when I think about the acceleration and the cornering, the Z06 really makes a strong arguement. ..driven by an old lady on sundays, 1/4 at a time... I have too much "Mustang" in my blood to buy a Z06. But I am aware of reality. You could never set a GT500 up to have the blend of performance in all area's that a Z06 has. The Z06 is a supercar, the GT500 is not. Try to get a GT500 to 200MPH without cylinder 7 and 8 failing from heat soak due to prolonged boost. The Z06 has SIX piston calipers front FOUR back, compare that to GT500 brakes. It also weighs 800 lbs less and has more HP. It has perfect weight distribution. It has a magnesium engine cradle. It has an aluminum frame. The list goes on and on. The two cars shouldn't even be talked about in the same conversation. Z06 are talked about with Ferrari F430 and cars of that caliber, not Mustangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Excuse me. Anyone care for a Valium? Or - phone sex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMO-GT500 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 . Luke, I am your father.... resist the dark side... the mustang is your destiny... <lol> <we'll still like ya either way, but it won't be easy . ..the really crappy part of all this, is the stress of either waiting for an unknown build date for a car from a small dealer, or breaking out the ol checkbook and paying some additional adm (yes, I know, I am admitting to paying adm, not possible to lock in a deal anywhere around here without it) You would think Ford could at least let the small dealers know when to roughly expect their cars. That way I could at least keep my stress manageable. ..or ask my doc for stronger pills The balance to this is to get a Z06. Unfortunately, the only one I like is silver, and by the time I got my hands on a silver 07 (06 are pretty much gone) my shelby will probably be here or close to it. Unless the small dealers, and their customers, get totally screwed out of their shelbies. Oh man, my blood pressure just went up 20 points or so just thinking about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Someone is ready for the trunk monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Someone is ready for the trunk monkey By the way Chris, had to take my ZO6 in to the dealer today, recall on the roof, seems like they fly off just going down the road. I guess that is how some of them are taking the ADM off the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 By the way Chris, had to take my ZO6 in to the dealer today, recall on the roof, seems like they fly off just going down the road. I guess that is how some of them are taking the ADM off the top post some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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