C6 beats the GT500 in C&D's comparison test

[svttim]

Sorry, but I highly doubt it. You guys with your 11 second 1/4s etc. are like golf handicappers in the office. I always hear the excuses when their golf scores aren't what they were so fond of yacking about.

 

Sorry, but 4,000 lbs with a good bit of wheel spin does not equal much below a 13 second quarter. In fact, Automobile got a 13.1. I am sure if you tune the engine, boost the psi on the blower or run slicks, you will see an improvement, but that isn't exactly a stock car now is it or something 99% of the public wants to do. Finally, you don't think Ford buffs up the mules as well as it can. If not, then I have a bridge to sell you. I'll find one near where you live.

 

 

 

LOL, Its in print man, get over it!

[RUFDRAFT]

I love this kind of talk.

 

I can see all of us backed into parking spaces at the burger joint.

 

We're gathered up at somebody's car with the hood up trying to come up with a race. :happy feet:

 

"Oh, yeah? Well, I'll give you two lengths - cause you got aluminum heads!"

 

Won't next summer be a gas?

 

Then - Then - we'll line em up.

 

Where I come from - money talks and BS walks. :happy feet:

[KCMO-GT500]

MM&FF

 

1/4: 12.25 @ 117.18 Milian Dragway

 

0-60: 2.11

 

Plenty of evidence that the shelby will run well with some practice and improved traction

 

from another board: Just got my MM&FF and Even Smith ran a best time of 12.25 @ 117.18 stock! 03/04 Cobra times 12.67 @ 110. "I can feel this an 11-sec car with gears" and "one should go 10's in the quarter-mile with minimal bolt-ons".

 

from fourcam330 (pretty knowledgeable on mustang performance): That 12.25@117 was with a 2.11 short time ladies and gents. Others have cut 1.85 60's so far. Being that every tenth loped off the 60' typically equates to ~.15+ in the 1/4, well, you do the math.

 

from what I am piecing together, this car will be gosh awful fast, and I don't see how anyone could consider the shelby to be a performance disappointment.

[Batman]

Muscle car or sports car, who cares! When you think of a Vette, Mustang GT500 or shelby, the first thing that comes to mind is performance. And pricewise, it is in the same ballpark as the regular vette.

 

First of all, do you seriously think that Chevrolet (Camaro) and Dodge (Challenger) will be content with their 400+ horsepower engines, while the GT500 is making 500+ horsepower, and eats their lunch? I don't think so.

Do you also think that Chevrolet and Dodge will standby with folded hands and let the Mustang GT500 get all the glory, when they already have the necessary powertrain and components to compete with - 500+ horsepower engines, brakes, and tranmissions to match - in their line up? Keep on dreaming homie.

 

Secondly, it is always cheaper for a car company to share powertrain components with other models in their lineup - engine, transmission, suspension, chasis, e.t.c. . Why? Because it lowers overall costs for the company and also leads to economies of scale. Less retooling costs equals larger profit margins. For example, the Dodge Viper shares it's engine, transmission and brakes with the Ram SRT10. The previous ZO6 shared its engine and transmission with the Cadillac CTS-V. Even your beloved GT500 shares some components with the Ford GT.

 

Thirdly, if the new Camaro has the ZO6 engine it would still not be faster than the ZO6. Why? Because the ZO6 weighs 3150 pounds while the Camaro will be at least 3600 pounds. Heck, from what I've heard so far, it is already as heavy as the GT500. That is the main reason why the Viper is faster than the Ram SRT10, and will destroy it in every comparison test even though they have the same engine, transmission, and brakes - the Viper weighs about 3450 pounds while the Ram SRT10 weighs 5000+ pounds. That is also why the previous ZO6 was faster than the Cadillac CTS-V.

 

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Some people refuse to see whats right in front of thier face :wacko: All the mags including those that cant pull the 1/4 mile times have said it handles very well. Will it outhandle a vette stock? Of course not but its not a damn sports car! Have a clue! I dont know what planet you came from, Chevy has never alowed the Camaro to be faster than a base vette and for good reason. Count me in on that bet too

 

[orangesnake]

I wonder if back in 1966 - 1970 people were having these very same discussions. Wonder where that forum was located? with :beerchug: and some :tequila: ending in or was is just settled on the streets and the race track / drag strip.

 

I think this next couple of years are going to be very interesting. History is going to repeat itself for sure........then get ready for inflation/ energy crisis/ gas crunch and Watergate!!!!

 

is the middle east = vietnam? naaaah thats a strech Did I miss woodstock?

[RUFDRAFT]

No - we didn't have forums - like I said - we parked at the Burger-Meister and talked about it!

 

Out of town cars would cruise in - we'd look and try to figure out what they had.

 

We'd cruise to other nearby towns and do the same thing!

 

American Graffiiti!

 

"She's real fine, my 409!"

 

"Wolfman Jack gonna rock your soul, baby!"

 

God - I feel like I'm 18 again.

 

"Honey - go put on those hot pants, willya?" :happy feet:

[RUFDRAFT]

Okay I'm on a roll now.

 

I dig the new Ford TV spot wherein Dad and Jr do burnouts - but let's better target the market here.

 

Setting: a Sonic type buger joint -

 

parked in most of the spots are young lads with their Preludes/Evos, etc - graphics on the cars - lambo doors - slammed - you know the types.

 

Music: some sort of annoying head-banging crap!

 

Setting: a half-dozen young guys and their girls are laughing and slamming their heads to the bass line.

 

Cut: silence - the sound of the 5.4 Shelby is heard - including the blower whine. The young kids' music stops with the sound of a needle being scratched on a record player. All that's heard is the 5.4. Their heads all turn in one direction.

 

Shot: a black Shelby with white stripes (and blacked out windows) rumbles into the parking lot. Their faces follow the car - only the engine/exhaust is heard.

 

Cut: The Shelby stops - and backs up into an empty parking space next to an import with a Top Fuel rear wing and obscene graphics. The driver blips the throttle once before shutting the Shelby down.

 

Shot: The Shelby's door opens - out steps Carroll Shelby - dressed in black leather. He turns left and right to look around - then turns to face the camera and smiles.

 

Shot: Graphics under this shot: "Guess Who's Back in Town?"

 

Fade to Black!

 

That, Bill Ford, will sell you some Shelbys!

[KCMO-GT500]

somehow you have to add in a shot of the rear tires boiling off into smoke. That's a visual that can't be matched.

 

The problem that everyone is facing in this discussion, is that we are trying to compare a new car with some preliminary numbers, some good and some bad, with a couple of cars that we are guessing about. I don't know how you can realistically ever get your arms around that discussion, since none of us are fortune tellers.

 

I think we all agree that GM and Dodge will do their best to put out fine competitors to the shelby, but who knows who will win their internal discussions on how far to go. Ford obviously faced many of those issues also. Let's face it, any car company could conceiveably build a car that would make the shelby look sad. But will they? I am guessing not. They may very well build something equal, but a person would have to wait to find out. I intend to buy a shelby since I know it fits what I am looking for, and I don't have to hope that GM or Dodge comes through with something better. If they do, well, I guess I will have to put in enough mods to even it out.

[RUFDRAFT]

KCMO - I spent TIME on that!

 

You might say, "cool," or "that's Phat," or, That's the S**t."

 

My God, man, this is prime time ready!

 

Let's read your version. :bandance:

[07 Shelby Cobra]

KCMO - I spent TIME on that!

 

You might say, "cool," or "that's Phat," or, That's the S**t."

 

My God, man, this is prime time ready!

 

Let's read your version. :bandance:

 

 

I'm Sick of seeing this Topic alive. Let's put it to Bed shall we??

[chinpono]

I'm Sick of seeing this Topic alive. Let's put it to Bed shall we??

 

 

Kill it!

[RUFDRAFT]

It's easy. Don't reply.

 

Or - have an original thought - and contribute - not just complain!

 

Are you paying for this? I thought not.

 

How easy to criticize.

 

How much harder to create.

[KCMO-GT500]

KCMO - I spent TIME on that!

 

You might say, "cool," or "that's Phat," or, That's the S**t."

 

My God, man, this is prime time ready!

 

Let's read your version. :bandance:

 

 

 

darn Ruffy, I've got a couple of engineering degrees. Any creativity I might have been born with has been sucked right out. No better version coming from me. Your idea is actually something Ford could really use. Or as my kids would say "sweet" !

 

It's just hard for me to vision the shelby sitting still. It is a car designed to be in motion, involving a lot of noise and abnormal tire wear. We should all buy some stock in tire companies.

 

Oh well, haven't checked the local mustang forums yet tonight. Need to do that and then off to bed. Morning comes up awfully quick. Looking forward to retirement, 7 yrs, 11 mos, 16 days, but who's counting.

[chinpono]

It's easy. Don't reply.

 

Or - have an original thought - and contribute - not just complain!

 

Are you paying for this? I thought not.

 

How easy to criticize.

 

How much harder to create.

 

 

Hey more power to ya... I enjoyed your story.

 

I just think this argument was started before all the fact were out

 

But good idea for an ad.

[Importsareoverated]

Muscle car or sports car, who cares! When you think of a Vette, Mustang GT500 or shelby, the first thing that comes to mind is performance. And pricewise, it is in the same ballpark as the regular vette.

 

First of all, do you seriously think that Chevrolet (Camaro) and Dodge (Challenger) will be content with their 400+ horsepower engines, while the GT500 is making 500+ horsepower, and eats their lunch? I don't think so.

Do you also think that Chevrolet and Dodge will standby with folded hands and let the Mustang GT500 get all the glory, when they already have the necessary powertrain and components to compete with - 500+ horsepower engines, brakes, and tranmissions to match - in their line up? Keep on dreaming homie.

 

Secondly, it is always cheaper for a car company to share powertrain components with other models in their lineup - engine, transmission, suspension, chasis, e.t.c. . Why? Because it lowers overall costs for the company and also leads to economies of scale. Less retooling costs equals larger profit margins. For example, the Dodge Viper shares it's engine, transmission and brakes with the Ram SRT10. The previous ZO6 shared its engine and transmission with the Cadillac CTS-V. Even your beloved GT500 shares some components with the Ford GT.

 

Thirdly, if the new Camaro has the ZO6 engine it would still not be faster than the ZO6. Why? Because the ZO6 weighs 3150 pounds while the Camaro will be at least 3600 pounds. Heck, from what I've heard so far, it is already as heavy as the GT500. That is the main reason why the Viper is faster than the Ram SRT10, and will destroy it in every comparison test even though they have the same engine, transmission, and brakes - the Viper weighs about 3450 pounds while the Ram SRT10 weighs 5000+ pounds. That is also why the previous ZO6 was faster than the Cadillac CTS-V.

 

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All I can say is thank, Dodge for building the Viper, or the Corvette would still be running, 14's, thank Ford for the Mustang Gt, or Gm wouldnt even be considering a Camaro, and Chrysler wouldnt consider a Challenger. Thank Ford for the GT or Gm wouldnt have built the Z06.

Comparing a pony car 4 seater to a C6 Corvette is Stupid, a Corvette is a SPORTS car, 2 seater, that all optioned up can cost almost 65k,( MSRP Price Range $43,690 - $64,890 )

but the Gm nutswingers just cant accept that Ford has done something right, lets see Gm has a rear drive Caddy that costs how much? and Gto that didnt sell well, and is going Bye-Bye, and 2 Covettes, oh boy.Their are no specs out on the Camaro yet but all the couch quarterbacks have it all figured out. The Shelby Gt500 is priced at about 40-43k, not bad for 500hp, better handling and bigger brakes, and a way upgraded interior. AND A TRUE SHELBY CAR. Ford plans on 9000 units, they will make money then the dealers mark them way up why is that? DEMAND, duh. and they make money.

Also dont forget that the Mustangs and the Shelby Gt500 have whats called drive by wire,(no real cable from the pedal to throttle body) and torque managment, if you havent driven one you really dont have a clue.

Their is a lag if you punch it, if the managment senses to much wheelspin even with the T/C off it still will back off the throttle, and you cant power shift them, as the car reaches redline it actually start closing the throttle. this is their to protect the driveline, and warranty costs.

change the tune to remove or modify and the Gt500 will run. And again every mag article talks about how well this car stops and handles and drives. And 12.257 @ 117.18 is faster than ANYBODY has run with a stock C6

Here are some competitors to the Corvette: 2005 Acura NSX 3.2 6-Spd MT, 2006 BMW M3 Coupe

Dont get me wrong the Corvettes are awesome cars, the Viper is awesome too.

[RUFDRAFT]

:happy feet: :bandance:

 

I love the smell of burning rubber first thing in the morning.

[svttim]

All I can say is thank, Dodge for building the Viper, or the Corvette would still be running, 14's, thank Ford for the Mustang Gt, or Gm wouldnt even be considering a Camaro, and Chrysler wouldnt consider a Challenger. Thank Ford for the GT or Gm wouldnt have built the Z06.

Comparing a pony car 4 seater to a C6 Corvette is Stupid, a Corvette is a SPORTS car, 2 seater, that all optioned up can cost almost 65k,( MSRP Price Range $43,690 - $64,890 )

but the Gm nutswingers just cant accept that Ford has done something right, lets see Gm has a rear drive Caddy that costs how much? and Gto that didnt sell well, and is going Bye-Bye, and 2 Covettes, oh boy.Their are no specs out on the Camaro yet but all the couch quarterbacks have it all figured out. The Shelby Gt500 is priced at about 40-43k, not bad for 500hp, better handling and bigger brakes, and a way upgraded interior. AND A TRUE SHELBY CAR. Ford plans on 9000 units, they will make money then the dealers mark them way up why is that? DEMAND, duh. and they make money.

Also dont forget that the Mustangs and the Shelby Gt500 have whats called drive by wire,(no real cable from the pedal to throttle body) and torque managment, if you havent driven one you really dont have a clue.

Their is a lag if you punch it, if the managment senses to much wheelspin even with the T/C off it still will back off the throttle, and you cant power shift them, as the car reaches redline it actually start closing the throttle. this is their to protect the driveline, and warranty costs.

change the tune to remove or modify and the Gt500 will run. And again every mag article talks about how well this car stops and handles and drives. And 12.257 @ 117.18 is faster than ANYBODY has run with a stock C6

Here are some competitors to the Corvette: 2005 Acura NSX 3.2 6-Spd MT, 2006 BMW M3 Coupe

Dont get me wrong the Corvettes are awesome cars, the Viper is awesome too.

 

 

 

Just to keep this going (LOL) Well said!

[Alloy Dave]

I love classic vettes and Shelbys. I just sold a 1967 Big Block Vette in Feb. I want a GT500 because they have 4 seats and look awesome and run great.

 

That said, get real. This car WILL NOT run low 12's without more tires and some pretty serious tuning. It weighs 4,000 lbs for god's sake. The Z06 is nearly 900 lb lighter, bigger tires and more HP and it runs 12 flat.

 

Love the GT500, but don't be delusional.

 

 

I guess the two magazines that have already produced low 12 runs with no modifications are lying.

[rbortnick]

...It really would be nice if there was an age limit for people posting or replying to threads. It simply amazes me that people or individuals have to resort to cursing or vulgar language when someone has a difference of opinion. "Holly Batfart"... "Pull my head out of my ass"... Is that the best you can do??? Shame on you! Didn't your parents train you when you were a child? Oh, maybe you're still a child. I'll bet you wouldn't have the guts to tell me what you just said in person, if we ran into each other on the street. But on here, you can act tough because you can hide behind your parents computer. Can' t you debate or argue like an adult? Have you heard of the term "constructive criticism"? You probably haven't because you are still growing up. I hope this is the case, because if you're an adult, you really do need help.

 

I said what I said, and I stand by what I said. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. If you disagree with what I said, fine. State your facts like an adult. I don't have to agree with you, and you don't have to agree with me. You have your reasons and I have my reasons. If you want to pay $5K to $10K over MSRP, go for it. I respect your decision. More power to you. There is a Ford dealership down the street over here, that will gladly give you a $10K Prostate examination for the GT500, and a $70K exam for the Ford GT. In my book, I call that rape and getting screwed! Nothing you say is going to change my mind, and I'm not here to change yours either. As a matter of fact I don't want to. If you don't have anything better to say, just go away and learn some manners.

 

 

 

Sorry if I hurt your feeling but your comparison is so off the wall that I had a hard time controlling myself.

I actually thought that you were joking thats why I started my reply as "Holly Batfart"

It seems that from some of the other replies on the board that my comments are not too far off.

From your comments above, I see thta your a very intelligent adult yourself.

 

If you got something intelligent to say, say it, otherwise your better off at the Chevy or Dodge board because your comments dont indicate that your a fan of Ford, the Shelby of the GT.

 

Bottom line is - If say something as ridiculus as your comparisons were, expect to get bashed.

[KCMO-GT500]

Pulled this info from another site and couldn't resist putting it here for response; and yes I am fully aware that same day test comparisons are preferable, but certainly not very likely for this many cars:

 

"Motor trend ran the GT 500 around their figure eight in only 24.5 seconds. That is a fantastic time, even if this is just one small test, it shows this car has lots of potential on a road course."

 

"Here is how it stacked up against a few other cars just for comparison:"

 

2003 cobra 26.3

2005 saleen s281 24.9

2005 Porsche 991 Carrera S 24.8

2005 Corvette Z51 25.2

2003 SRT-10 Viper 23.9 (wow)

2005 M3 with competition package 25.7

2004 S2000 26.0

2004 Nissan 350Z Track 26.1

2005 Evo MR 25.0

2005 Lotus Elise touring 24.8

2005 STi 26.1

 

I can't help but have a lot of optimism regarding the shelby if the poster got these numbers right.

 

John

[RUFDRAFT]

Very cool - if these numbers are accurate, the M/T guys can obviously STEER the car - they just can't LAUNCH it or SHIFT it. :bandance:

[TwinTurboBoss]

.

[07 Shelby Cobra]

It's easy. Don't reply.

 

Or - have an original thought - and contribute - not just complain!

 

Are you paying for this? I thought not.

 

How easy to criticize.

 

How much harder to create.

 

 

 

Sorry Prof I didn't mean to hit a nerve. I didn't realize that you Created this Thread?

My point wasn't to criticize You or the contributors. All points are valid. It's the mention of C&D in the Thread Title that gets my Goat. Lets compare the C6 and Shelby, it's fun, I just don't feel the C&D Article has any Merit. Plus I was drinking. :tequila:

Wow! You gave me the Finger Three times!!

Now, about packing a handgun in the Shelby.....................................................!

[RUFDRAFT]

 

Smiling!

 

I'm leary of reading my very late-night posts for fear of not liking what I've written!

 

"Hey, Frankie, two more down here - one for the lady in the corner - and one for yourself!" :happy feet:

 

We're good, 07.

 

It would take a lot more than one post for me to stop liking you, man.

[68fastback]

Sheesh! Let's not forget those articles in C&D et al are on pre-production eval units... and the recent 12.25 isn't too shabby! 12-flat will be had at 119 or so -- you will see. Just needs some tires and the right flash, some seat time to find the right launch (without that damned TC on) and it'll be there... Watch and se once some number are out there for a while. The '01 Cobra was first doing 5.2-5.3 in the mags, but now it's generally accepted 0-60 is 4.8 with a good driver and the right launch with TC-off... SOmetimes it's a mistake, I think, to give the press early units to play with, but that's the way it's done, it seems.....

[Batman]

...For all those who thought I was full of hot air, check out this website.

 

www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60

 

Interesting, eh?

 

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Sorry if I hurt your feeling but your comparison is so off the wall that I had a hard time controlling myself.

I actually thought that you were joking thats why I started my reply as "Holly Batfart"

It seems that from some of the other replies on the board that my comments are not too far off.

From your comments above, I see thta your a very intelligent adult yourself.

 

If you got something intelligent to say, say it, otherwise your better off at the Chevy or Dodge board because your comments dont indicate that your a fan of Ford, the Shelby of the GT.

 

Bottom line is - If say something as ridiculus as your comparisons were, expect to get bashed.

 

[68fastback]

...For all those who thought I was full of hot air, check out this website.

 

www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60

 

Interesting, eh?

 

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Yeah, it's interesting And if they do that Ford will drop a 1000HP 10.0L Hurricane in a mustang and call it the 1000KR. It's all talk at this point.

 

At least Ford is actually selling the mustang... right now... with 500HP! That's a lot more useful than the camaro or challenger prototypes that don't go over 40mph for fear of breaking. Did you notice the sound of the camaro door when the Tom Peters got in it in the vid? Sounded like a tin can -- but the dash is pretty! What BS. The Camaro is about as ready for production as the LS-X engine-name GM registered last week. You know, the ones they parade around the airstrips and roadcourses in the videos to try to contain mustang sales in anticipation of the imminent realease of a killer Camaro (are you holding your breath? I hope not)

 

<just razzing ya... easy now ;-) gott keep Ruf's thread interesting>

 

Any of the three manufacturers could release a 1000HP tractable ponycar if they wanted. But they'll dole it slowly. It's just good marketing. It's not a technology problem. It's a PR problem if it's done too quickly and kids kill themselves, then Congress shuts down the muscle cars (again) and development costs get written off on a smaller existing base -- bad business. That's just the way it is IMHO, and Ford, being very conservative, has always let the other guys go first. This time they're out there first, but they'll let GM/DCX do the first monster, and then respond. I hope that's not the sequence; maybe HTT has more clout in Ford than I think he does -- I sure hope so.

 

.

[gt5001]

>First of all, do you seriously think that Chevrolet (Camaro) and Dodge (Challenger) will be content with their 400+ horsepower engines, while the GT500 is making 500+ horsepower, and eats their lunch? I don't think so.

Do you also think that Chevrolet and Dodge will standby with folded hands and let the Mustang GT500 get all the glory, when they already have the necessary powertrain and components to compete with - 500+ horsepower engines, brakes, and tranmissions to match - in their line up? Keep on dreaming homie.

 

The difference with Chevy & Dodge is while they may not match the the golden 500 hp number, they will be close. Most importantly, each will build about as many as they can sell, probably at a lower cost, without huge AMDs, and in a much shorter time to get them into the hands of drivers.

[carnut]

Hey, I hope you are right. Maybe there will be more testing done that will put the Shelby in a better light vs. the vette, and other comparable cars. The good thing is that all these test results are coming out now as Ford dealers are putting the screw to the faithful. Seems like a little bit of justice, no?

I would, but haven't got the time. Your troll sister is here, too. We havin a party!

 

 

I have both cars, the vette and the shelby, they are different cars. As far as those limp wristed Porche drivers in Car and Driver, they sandbag their tests. Fact is, Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords did there own test, ran 12.24 which is quicker than the Z-51. This is not that much slower than my ZO6. Face it guys, the are both great American cars. Also if you happened to read Hot Rod Magazine, all of the preproduction magazine cars were down on horsepower due to their "smokey tune" per Ford. ZO6's are also still commanding 20k over sticker.

 

The Shelby is a lot better than the Import loving press wants you to believe. They even thing the Porche interior with its old Super Beetle dashboard and guages is better than the Vette and probably the Mustang.

[Guest evilchris]

I have both cars, the vette and the shelby, they are different cars. As far as those limp wristed Porche drivers in Car and Driver, they sandbag their tests. Fact is, Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords did there own test, ran 12.24 which is quicker than the Z-51. This is not that much slower than my ZO6. Face it guys, the are both great American cars. Also if you happened to read Hot Rod Magazine, all of the preproduction magazine cars were down on horsepower due to their "smokey tune" per Ford. ZO6's are also still commanding 20k over sticker.

 

The Shelby is a lot better than the Import loving press wants you to believe. They even thing the Porche interior with its old Super Beetle dashboard and guages is better than the Vette and probably the Mustang.

 

 

2007 Z06's can be had for $5000 over sticker at ANY dealer in San Diego. In addition, MM&FF's test was bs as they powershifted second. Powershift the Z51 to compare.