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Grabber

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I got 3 new battery tenders and installed the hard wire kits on 3 vehicles that I don't drive much in the winter. Here is the link to the purchase: http://www.griotsgarage.com/p2p/searchResu...vals&page=1

 

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My finger is pointing to the quick plug connection on my GT500.

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I have the Tender on my car now.

 

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I then put one on Tana's GT/CS

 

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Then the 1992 F-250 got one

 

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My Harley Davidson is sleeping with one too.

 

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I got 3 new battery tenders and installed the hard wire kits on 3 vehicles that I don't drive much in the winter.

 

misc162.jpg

 

My finger is pointing to the quick plug connection on my GT500.

misc172.jpg

 

misc171.jpg

 

I have the Tender on my car now.

 

misc177.jpg

 

misc175.jpg

 

I then put one on Tana'

misc183.jpg

 

misc181.jpg

 

Then the 1992 F-250 got one

 

misc179.jpg

 

My Harley Davidson is sleeping with one too.

 

misc180.jpg

 

 

I've got a dual on my two motorcyles and a single for the Shelby. Swear by 'em!

 

bj

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Grabber, did you connect the negative to the battery?

 

Battery tender says connect to engine or car body not negative.

 

BJ, as I have one like yours, where did you connect the negative?

I read that, but the hard wire battery harness kit has small bolt on eyelet connections that are the same size as the small bolts on the battery terminal hook ups. I need to find out if this is a problem.

 

Any Battery experts know if this is a problem ?? and if it is......WHY ??

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Well, I am not an expert. I do own one of these. I have it on my GT500 right now. I have it connected with the terminal connectors rather than the alligator clips. I connected mine directly to the battery.

 

I am not sure why they instruct you to connect to the chassis. What if you are maintaining a battery out of the car, like on a workbench?

 

I have been a customer of Griots for 5 or 6 years. They are very good about answering questions and solving problems. I called today, but, the customer service people are not in. I sent a message in the "ask a question" section. As soon as I hear from them, I will post the response here.

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Grabber, if you find out that connecting the negative to the charger is a real NO NO please post your findings. I've always connected my Battery Tender right to the battery. Considering that you can remove the battery from the car and connect both leads directly to the battery I don't understand the difference.

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After reading several articles about jump starting cars, they all say the ground to car frame is to avoid the VERY slight risk of igniting hydrogen gas and causing an explosion. I'm not sure how this applies to a battery maintainer. Especially one that is attached using battery terminals. The risk of spark should be virtually zero since the connectors are securely attached. With the alligator clips, I could see how one slipping off could cause a spark.

 

My GUESS is the manufacturer is covering their hiney and recommending the traditional "to frame" connection technique. I'll let you all know what they say when I hear back from them.

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I read that, but the hard wire battery harness kit has small bolt on eyelet connections that are the same size as the small bolts on the battery terminal hook ups. I need to find out if this is a problem.

 

Any Battery experts know if this is a problem ?? and if it is......WHY ??

 

Rob,

I use the Battery Tender junior. Its the same hookup as yours. I connected the negative lead on the tender to where the negative cable on the battery bolts to the shock tower. (same size eyelet)

Alan

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Rob,

I use the Battery Tender junior. Its the same hookup as yours. I connected the negative lead on the tender to where the negative cable on the battery bolts to the shock tower. (same size eyelet)

Alan

Thanks Alan.

 

I am not going to change mine and Tana's unless it is a problem. I will wait for 5.4 Shelby to reply after he talks to the supplier.

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Rob,

I use the Battery Tender junior. Its the same hookup as yours. I connected the negative lead on the tender to where the negative cable on the battery bolts to the shock tower. (same size eyelet)

Alan

Alan,

 

I went out and looked at the factory ground that goes from the battery terminal to the front strut tower.

 

This is the connection that you mentioned.

misc187.jpg

 

This is the location that I have my battery tender Neg. wire hooked up too.

misc186.jpg

 

Since both of these connections are tied into the same location, I assume that there will be no problem. The connection that I have made by my index finger is tied back to the strut tower bolt by my thumb with the factory wiring.

misc188.jpg

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Alloy Dave is a battery guru isn't he ? :hysterical:

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Alan,

 

I went out and looked at the factory ground that goes from the battery terminal to the front strut tower.

 

This is the connection that you mentioned.

misc187.jpg

 

This is the location that I have my battery tender Neg. wire hooked up too.

misc186.jpg

 

Since both of these connections are tied inot the same location, I assume that there will be no problem. The connection that I have made by my index finger is tied back to the strut tower bolt by my thumb with the factory wiring.

misc188.jpg

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Alloy Dave is a battery guru isn't he ? :hysterical:

I'm pretty sure you got this one nailed Rob. Looks like a good connection, and proper area. I think anything more is overkill and as someone already stated a "CYA" move by the OEM. Nice job! and post, as always.

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Any time you add jumpers or battery tenders to your vehicle it is recommended to connect positive first and then negative away from battery to a good ground source, the reason is as 5.4 says to lower the risk of igniting fumes.

 

I do not see it causing any problems connecting the tender to the battery directly as long as you keep in mind when connecting your terminal the possibilities of this.

 

You can just place a rag over the battery when connecting, then remove it.

Thanks for the advice.

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Alan,

 

I went out and looked at the factory ground that goes from the battery terminal to the front strut tower.

 

This is the connection that you mentioned.

misc187.jpg

 

This is the location that I have my battery tender Neg. wire hooked up too.

misc186.jpg

 

Since both of these connections are tied into the same location, I assume that there will be no problem. The connection that I have made by my index finger is tied back to the strut tower bolt by my thumb with the factory wiring.

misc188.jpg

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Alloy Dave is a battery guru isn't he ? :hysterical:

 

Rob,

I see your point. It's probably a safety issue, They probably say connect the neg to the frame for the same reason that when you jump start the car your not suppose to connect neg post to neg post.

I THINK it's so you don't create a spark and explode the battery.

But you may want to ask a professional.

Alan

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Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Alloy Dave is a battery guru isn't he ? :hysterical:

I concur with 5.4 Shelby. The reason they tell you not to hook directly the battery is because there is a very slight chance of an explosion due to hydrogen gas. Here is the history as I know it...

 

Batteries produce hydrogen. If, somehow, that gas were trapped in a confined area, and the lead created a spark, then you could get an explosion as hydrogen gas is explosive. The reasons it's a SLIGHT chance are the following:

 

1) Today's batteries are sealed, so either little or no hydrogen gas escapes

2) In most cases there is enough airflow that any buildup of hydrogen would be minimal

3) Something would have to supply a spark...either you remove the lead, or it slips off the metal contact

 

So, let me spell out a condition where I think you COULD have an issue...

 

Let's say your batter is not sealed, or it's leaking. You have the hood down on the car, reducing airflow. Let's say the hood of the vehicle in question has some type of "cavity" on the undersaid just above the battery that could trap gas (Hydogen gas is lighter than air). Let's say that you have the lead attached, and the device itself is sitting on the front bumper as you showed on the truck. Let's say your garage doors are closed and the air is very still...no air movement. Now let's say for some reason the device slips off the front bumper, pulling the lead off, which creates a spark, and the hydrogen gas is trapped in the cavity in the hood...BOOM. In order for it to be a problem, the chemical makeup of the gases must be just so.

 

As I said, it's highly unlikely, but possible. The safest way is to get the lead as far from the battery as possible.

 

The one place where I have seen batteries explode is in old Volkswagen Beetles. The batteries on those cars were UNDER THE BACK SEAT, and the batteries at that time were not sealed. Gases would build up under the seat, and then any spark in that area was a major problem. It fits the criteria I mentioned above.

 

Dave

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So did any of the battery tender manufacturers reply?

 

Scenerio #2;

 

Hood down, battery tender connected, Cover on car as done by Grabber.

 

Could this create an issue? could anything come off the battery with the cover on which may harm the paint?

 

Nice pictures again Grabber.

 

You surely do things right.

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I've been using one of these for about 5 years for various cars or my RV. They are a great thing to have.

For anyone intrested I too have been using these for years as we are racers. They are on our race cars, pit vehicles and trailer and now our GT500. I use the Black and Decker version found at Wal-Mart and it has 2 settings (1 amp and 2 amp) and here they are about 18 bucks. Also the race cars have 2 AGM style batteries (Optima) in each of them and the trailer has 1 and it does work with those style batteries which I found not all maintainers do.

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For What It's Worth,

General Motors and Ford both have a TSB regarding making ground connections to places on the vehicle other than the ground terminal. This is primairly concerning aftermarket equipment installations. The problem is when you connect a ground terminal anywhere other than a ground terminal point (such as body component or other frame component) you change the flow of the electricity and may cause power to flow thru a path such as heater core, radiator, condensor which will set up electrolysis resulting in "eating up" that component. GM and Ford had a rash of heater cores and condensers failing and leaking at very low milage and they have determined this to be the problem. The TSB has a test procedure with a voltage meter placed with commom lead to ground and positive lead placed in the coolant of the radiator and the current reading should never exceed 1.5 mill amps. I found out about it on my 2005 Super Duty when heater core went out at 18K miles. I had several aftermarket devices with the grounds connect where every convenient. We lost a radiator and heater core in 2 GM company vehicles and GM had very similar TSB. All were covered under waranty but recomended grounds be changed.

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For What It's Worth,

General Motors and Ford both have a TSB regarding making ground connections to places on the vehicle other than the ground terminal. This is primairly concerning aftermarket equipment installations. The problem is when you connect a ground terminal anywhere other than a ground terminal point (such as body component or other frame component) you change the flow of the electricity and may cause power to flow thru a path such as heater core, radiator, condensor which will set up electrolysis resulting in "eating up" that component. GM and Ford had a rash of heater cores and condensers failing and leaking at very low milage and they have determined this to be the problem. The TSB has a test procedure with a voltage meter placed with commom lead to ground and positive lead placed in the coolant of the radiator and the current reading should never exceed 1.5 mill amps. I found out about it on my 2005 Super Duty when heater core went out at 18K miles. I had several aftermarket devices with the grounds connect where every convenient. We lost a radiator and heater core in 2 GM company vehicles and GM had very similar TSB. All were covered under waranty but recomended grounds be changed.

Are you saying I did it right or wrong ?

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Are you saying I did it right or wrong ?

 

I would say by the instructions of the battery tender, they are only concerened with your safety and the explosion issue. But as far as Ford is concerened they are concerened with the vehicle opperation. I will see if I can find the Ford TSB or if you have a good Service Manager with your dealer you might ask them. This issue also came up several months ago on one of the TV series My Garage, or something like that, and explained he grounding problem in detail.

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I would say by the instructions of the battery tender, they are only concerened with your safety and the explosion issue. But as far as Ford is concerened they are concerened with the vehicle opperation. I will see if I can find the Ford TSB or if you have a good Service Manager with your dealer you might ask them. This issue also came up several months ago on one of the TV series My Garage, or something like that, and explained he grounding problem in detail.

 

By the way Grabber, It was a pleasure meeting you at the Birthday Bash. It's nice to meet someone after you have been communicating with them thru tecknowledgy and not face to face.

Take Care,

John

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For What It's Worth,

General Motors and Ford both have a TSB regarding making ground connections to places on the vehicle other than the ground terminal. This is primairly concerning aftermarket equipment installations. The problem is when you connect a ground terminal anywhere other than a ground terminal point (such as body component or other frame component) you change the flow of the electricity and may cause power to flow thru a path such as heater core, radiator, condensor which will set up electrolysis resulting in "eating up" that component. GM and Ford had a rash of heater cores and condensers failing and leaking at very low milage and they have determined this to be the problem. The TSB has a test procedure with a voltage meter placed with commom lead to ground and positive lead placed in the coolant of the radiator and the current reading should never exceed 1.5 mill amps. I found out about it on my 2005 Super Duty when heater core went out at 18K miles. I had several aftermarket devices with the grounds connect where every convenient. We lost a radiator and heater core in 2 GM company vehicles and GM had very similar TSB. All were covered under waranty but recomended grounds be changed.

I hooked mine up to the ground terminal like your first sentence says. Sounds like I did the right thing. :happy feet:

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By the way Grabber, It was a pleasure meeting you at the Birthday Bash. It's nice to meet someone after you have been communicating with them thru tecknowledgy and not face to face.

Take Care,

John

I agree. John. I look forward to seeing you at another event soon.

 

Rob

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Grabber, did you connect the negative to the battery?

 

Battery tender says connect to engine or car body not negative.

 

BJ, as I have one like yours, where did you connect the negative?

 

Bill,

 

I apologize, I didn't see that you'd asked me a question on here. I always hook mine to the neg on the battery. Although in theory, Dave's explanation of the slight potential for an explosion is correct, it is so minimal that I've never grounded to a part or the frame. I didn't go back and see who posted the TSB about parts wearing out due to the curent running through them, but that's exactly why I don't do it that way. My dad went through a radiator and a couple of other parts on GM vehicles because of that.

 

I guess, when in doubt, follow the advice from the auto mfg. You have a lot more at stake than a 59 dollar battery tender or a 1 percent chance of an explosion. Just my two cents.

 

bj

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  • 2 months later...

Here is a Ford TSB that says for a fact that starting up the vehicle and running it for 15 minutes will NOT keep your battery charged. They say to use a battery maintainer.

 

 

Battery - Discharges After Vehicle Storage

 

TSB 07-5-13

 

03/19/07

 

DISCHARGED BATTERIES - VEHICLES IN

STORAGE/LIMITED USAGE

 

FORD:

2005-2008 Mustang

2005 Explorer Sport Trac

2005-2008 Expedition, Explorer

2007-2008 Explorer Sport Trac

 

LINCOLN:

2005-2008 Navigator

 

MERCURY:

2005-2008 Mountaineer

 

ISSUE

Some 2005-2008 Mustang , Explorer 4dr, Mountaineer, Expedition, Navigator, 2005 Explorer Sport Trac and 2007-2008 Explorer Sport Trac vehicles may experience a no start and have a discharged battery. They are usually stored for prolonged periods of time or are driven infrequently for short distances. Batteries will discharge while the vehicle is in storage due to normal current draw loads. Over a period of time, 30 days or more, vehicles in storage will have shallow to deeply discharged batteries as a result of lack of use or normal current draw.

 

ACTION

Follow the Service Tips steps to correct the condition.

 

SERVICE TIPS

 

1.

 

Charging system diagnostics and battery draw test are located in Workshop Manual, Section 414-00.

 

2.

 

Discharged batteries need to be properly recharged following the procedures in TSB 07-5-8.

 

3.

 

All modern automobiles have several micro processors in their electrical system that will draw small amounts of electrical current when the vehicle key is off. Normal current draw is between 20-30 milliamps (workshop manual specification is up to 50 milliamps 0.050 amps).

 

4.

 

The more discharged a battery becomes, the more susceptible it is to permanent damage. This is more likely in low temperatures (below 32 °F (0 °C).

 

 

 

Batteries will discharge while the vehicle is in storage due to normal current draw loads. Over a period of time (30 days or more), vehicles in storage will have shallow to deeply discharged batteries as a result of lack of use or normal current draw.NOTE ELECTRICAL OR ELECTRONIC ACCESSORIES OR COMPONENTS ADDED TO THE VEHICLE BY THE DEALER OR BY THE OWNER WILL INCREASE THE CURRENT DRAW LOADS AND ADVERSELY AFFECT BATTERY PERFORMANCE AND DURABILITY.

 

5.

 

The vehicle's charging system is designed to supply the vehicle's electrical power needs and maintain the battery to near full charge during normal vehicle use. The charging system is not capable of bringing a deeply discharged battery back to near full charge in a short amount of time such as allowing the vehicle to idle for 15 minutes to "recharge the battery" or from short drive cycles.

 

6.

 

Short drive cycles will only provide a small surface charge to the battery. To fully recharge a battery that is fully discharged requires operating the vehicle for approximately two (2) hours with engine speed above 1500 RPM.

 

7.

 

Vehicles that are stored for extended periods or are driven infrequently for short distances may need to use an auxiliary battery maintainer/charger that is expressly designed to maintain the battery state of charge during storage. These maintainers/chargers are available in the automotive aftermarket and should be used according to their manufacturer's direction.

 

 

 

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: 07-05-8

 

WARRANTY STATUS: Information Only - Not Warrantable

 

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