Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

Burnouts, Donuts and Such


SGT/SC#0471

Recommended Posts

So how many of you guys find the rpm limiter when doing a burnout, I am really trying for better throttle control, and have hit the limiter on a few occasions jamming the gears and doing a burnout. The 4.6 likes to rev. Trying to moderate the throttle on this car requires finnesse. You guys have the same experience? Each time I was thinking dang. Anybody else experience this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep at it, you'll get the hang of things. Maybe start out slower, in 2nd gear?

 

I believe the OEM rev limiter is set at 5800 RPMs, I hit it all the time.

 

Well mine seems to be set at 6500. It is as delivered to dealer from SAI. Thanks, lulu if yours is at 5800 that seems low, did you change it. I know there was some discussion on the old board about the the bullitt being set at 6500, I have tried to look at mine and it seems to rev past the 6250 number, maybe my tachs slightly off. This engine reminds me of my built 327 chev days, its a revver! :headspin:

 

I wanted to add obviously this prevents engine damage?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn good idea to start this topic. I seem to have a problem with burnouts also. How do you do them in stick shift. Mine does a little burn in first and a squeak in second. How do those guys do the major burns. We could use some help here from the pros. I tried once to let out the clutch and hit the brake...that almost ended in a disaster. Any help would be appreciated. Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn good idea to start this topic. I seem to have a problem with burnouts also. How do you do them in stick shift. Mine does a little burn in first and a squeak in second. How do those guys do the major burns. We could use some help here from the pros. I tried once to let out the clutch and hit the brake...that almost ended in a disaster. Any help would be appreciated. Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn good idea to start this topic. I seem to have a problem with burnouts also. How do you do them in stick shift. Mine does a little burn in first and a squeak in second. How do those guys do the major burns. We could use some help here from the pros. I tried once to let out the clutch and hit the brake...that almost ended in a disaster. Any help would be appreciated. Steve

Like this!!!

CIMG2220-1.jpg

CIMG2221.jpg

Put in to 2nd gear rev up around 4000rpm drop clutch and quickly shift foot onto brake pedal and hold on.

I installed a line lock make it a lot easier to to burn-outs.

As far as donuts not good on clutches in rear you need to replaced if you keep doing donuts and 1 wheel burn out. Cure! Tru Trac by Eaton no clutchs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like this!!!

 

 

Put in to 2nd gear rev up around 4000rpm drop clutch and quickly shift foot onto brake pedal and hold on.

I installed a line lock make it a lot easier to to burn-outs.

As far as donuts not good on clutches in rear you need to replaced if you keep doing donuts and 1 wheel burn out. Cure! Tru Trac by Eaton no clutchs.

 

 

Easier said than done without a lockline...that makes all the difference. Plus be sure to turn off the TCS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well mine seems to be set at 6500. It is as delivered to dealer from SAI. Thanks, lulu if yours is at 5800 that seems low, did you change it. I know there was some discussion on the old board about the the bullitt being set at 6500, I have tried to look at mine and it seems to rev past the 6250 number, maybe my tachs slightly off. This engine reminds me of my built 327 chev days, its a revver! :headspin:

 

I wanted to add obviously this prevents engine damage?

No, I've done nothing to the tune, bone stock SAI/FRP tune. However, I'm reading data from the OBDII port, not the dash tach, and we're talking only a few hundered RPM. One or both resources may be just a tad off.

 

Re: "line lock"...Basically a drag racing accessory. How it works is rather simple. The brake system has four lines running from the distribution block, one for each wheel. A line lock is an electric solenoid that attaches to the two front brake lines. You apply the brakes, activate the solenoids and release the brake. The front brakes stay locked on, the rear are released. Do your burnout, stage the car, and release the solenoid on the green and GO!

 

Takes a while to get the timing down, but stops you from rolling forward into a red light loss. They work on both autos and sticks, and on the autos, you have an option of an adjustable proportioning valve that achieves the same effect, but I don't recommend this. It can be problematic on the street when you need the rear brakes in a panic stop.

 

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/serv...oikwd=Line+Lock

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A little off topic...

Sunday, I "romped" my car really for the 1st time.

Turned right after stop sign, slow-rolling, mashed it in first with TC on. Got to about 6000rpm, grabbed 2nd, TC on, mild burn( hooked up very well. not much lost in 1st or 2nd), went up to (floored) @5900rpm, when I reached for 3rd, speedo said 80mph. When I hit third, small patch, and went directly to 5th and basically coasted from @95 to the end of the road. I don't know how long it took, (no clock) but I'm telling you it wasn't many seconds from 0-80! (it only felt like 4 seconds)

Heart was beating nicely! :headspin:

I can only imaging what the guys with GT/SC or GT500 feel! :superhero::dreamy:

 

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prolly should have added this to my previous advice, sorry gents.

 

Turn you traction control off. It works against your goals by applying brakes and pulling timing and fuel, when the sensors report tire spin.

 

I know there is a TSB on differential clutches burning out and leaving you with no Limited Slip function, but I have been told by my wrenches that the true cause of this failure is hammering the car for power with the T/C left on.

 

The power of an SGT (as meager as some paint it to be) easilly overpowers the bite of the BFG tires, and when spin is detected, the EEC applies one or both rear brake systems, along with other schemes to bring the car under control. Thus, the diff clutches suffer and burn up prematurely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A little off topic...

Sunday, I "romped" my car really for the 1st time.

Turned right after stop sign, slow-rolling, mashed it in first with TC on. Got to about 6000rpm, grabbed 2nd, TC on, mild burn( hooked up very well. not much lost in 1st or 2nd), went up to (floored) @5900rpm, when I reached for 3rd, speedo said 80mph. When I hit third, small patch, and went directly to 5th and basically coasted from @95 to the end of the road. I don't know how long it took, (no clock) but I'm telling you it wasn't many seconds from 0-80! (it only felt like 4 seconds)

Heart was beating nicely! :headspin:

I can only imaging what the guys with GT/SC or GT500 feel! :superhero::dreamy:

 

Dan

 

Dan...i can only tell you that I "rode" in GT/SC's and 500's this past weekend in vegas..and my heart is still trying to come down to a normal rate ! :fan:

 

I don't know what iit is about men, fast cars, and exit ramps...but ...oh nevermind :hysterical2:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dan...i can only tell you that I "rode" in GT/SC's and 500's this past weekend in vegas..and my heart is still trying to come down to a normal rate ! :fan:

 

I don't know what iit is about men, fast cars, and exit ramps...but ...oh nevermind :hysterical2:

 

Ha!

 

No, you know what it is! :hysterical2::superhero:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Louie, I swear you ROCK! Cool pictures. I was starting my smokeshow in 1st (no tcs obviously) and shifting into second with no brake applied, and had no problems keeping a nice sweet, 2 gear "posi" burnout super long and sweet, but like I said I did hit the limiter, and that made me go Doh!. Of course 3rd was a squirmy super loud bark of the BFG's. I will try a second gear launch. I have never "powerbraked" a stick. Would this not decimate the rear disc's with no line lock? Louie when you are drag racing do you guys launch in 2nd? I would assume you launch in 1st? Again I have never had a 5sp, only muncie 4sp., its welcome to the future for me, haha :hysterical: Also thanks for the tip on the donuts. Boy I can not wait for a paxton! Steve did you have the TCS on?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Louie, I swear you ROCK! Cool pictures. I was starting my smokeshow in 1st (no tcs obviously) and shifting into second with no brake applied, and had no problems keeping a nice sweet, 2 gear "posi" burnout super long and sweet, but like I said I did hit the limiter, and that made me go Doh!. Of course 3rd was a squirmy super loud bark of the BFG's. I will try a second gear launch. I have never "powerbraked" a stick. Would this not decimate the rear disc's with no line lock? Louie when you are drag racing do you guys launch in 2nd? I would assume you launch in 1st? Again I have never had a 5sp, only muncie 4sp., its welcome to the future for me, haha :hysterical: Also thanks for the tip on the donuts. Boy I can not wait for a paxton! Steve did you have the TCS on?

When I took my SGT/SC to the track I put a set of MT 26x11.50x17 cheater slicks, launched at 5500rpms 1st ,shifter 5800 2nd, 5900 3rd and 4th at 6100 trap at 6400 at 11.432sec,123.80mph, 60' 1.62, 410 gears

CIMG2277.jpg

trackrentall10-12-07063-2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Louie I remember your car and you from the old site. Do you find that the 410's are too much for daily use or top end or does the 5sp make it all work out? I am envious of your car, it is set up sssswwwweeeetttttttt!

I changed gears when I installed the Eaton tru trac to 373 it lasted two days went back to the 410s. Hope that answers your ?.

I use car on week ends only but with 410s in 5th gear 3000 rpm 80 mph. On street I normally start off in second then to fourth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prolly should have added this to my previous advice, sorry gents.

 

Turn you traction control off. It works against your goals by applying brakes and pulling timing and fuel, when the sensors report tire spin.

 

I know there is a TSB on differential clutches burning out and leaving you with no Limited Slip function, but I have been told by my wrenches that the true cause of this failure is hammering the car for power with the T/C left on.

 

The power of an SGT (as meager as some paint it to be) easilly overpowers the bite of the BFG tires, and when spin is detected, the EEC applies one or both rear brake systems, along with other schemes to bring the car under control. Thus, the diff clutches suffer and burn up prematurely.

 

 

Lulu are you saying that we should pretty much always be turning off the TCS as eventually it will cause premature wear? ...because I'm sure that most of us here hammer it at least once a day.

 

 

 

I almost lost control of mine one time shifting into second and that was with the TCS AND A/C ON.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lulu are you saying that we should pretty much always be turning off the TCS as eventually it will cause premature wear? ...because I'm sure that most of us here hammer it at least once a day.

 

 

 

I almost lost control of mine one time shifting into second and that was with the TCS AND A/C ON.

 

LMAO, Fresh pavement and second is a doosey eh? Been there haha! Besides what would make you think that any of us would ever "hammer" our cars :hysterical2:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lulu are you saying that we should pretty much always be turning off the TCS as eventually it will cause premature wear? ...because I'm sure that most of us here hammer it at least once a day.

 

 

 

I almost lost control of mine one time shifting into second and that was with the TCS AND A/C ON.

Yes, this is my advice under certain conditions. Turn off the Traction control if your intent is to do a burnout, engage in a "stop light" Gran Prix, or, you are drag racing on a closed track.

 

T/C (and ABS) work off rotational wheel sensors at each wheel, front and rear. The data is sent to the EEC and calculated. When one or more wheels are detected to be turning (or, not turning as if brake locked) at the same speed as the others (ala ABS), the EEC applies brakes to the other wheels, pulls timing and spark, it can even cut off fuel at a particular preset threshold. Many of us have tried to reprogram this data, with no success. It's in a protected area of the EEC.

 

Thus, if you're doing a burnout in the waterbox, or, staging at the tree, and one tire spins while another grips, the EEC (thinking you're in an uncontrolled slide) will make corrections to stabilize the car by slowing the spinning wheel. If you're racing, this isn't good for your ETs. And, applying brake to one rear axle and not the other, puts the differential clutches at risk for premature failure. Something got to slip, right?

 

So, my advice is to shut it off when you have plans for some aggressive driving, and learn to control the car in a driver controlled slide. Afterall, isn't this why there is a switch for that?

 

About the A/C...This 411 may be a bit dated right now 'cause I haven't verified it with my SGT. However, I don't see a connection between having the A/C on and a loss of control, other than delivering more power to the wheels. The A/C, P/S and Altenator (still called a generator by FMC) are electronically "clutched", and under WOT, they shut off and spin freely to reduce native RPM rotational drag on the power curve.

 

This is again a problem at the other end of the track if you race with less than 1/4 tank of gas. Overall voltage can drop below the threshold and sense a false loss of fuel due to a slower moving pump. In this scenario, the EEC pulls fuel by shuting off the pump, but not pulling timing or spark, and you're instantly in a lean condition at high RPM and detonating. Do it often enough, and you're rebuilding a blown engine. I've seen my share of 4.6L-2, 3 and 4V engines go south in the traps, and this has been one of two common causes. This is why higher powered supercharged applications get improved and sometims dual fuel pumps, and likewise FPDMs (fuel delivery control module).

 

Hope this helps, carry on gents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I changed gears when I installed the Eaton tru trac to 373 it lasted two days went back to the 410s. Hope that answers your ?.

I use car on week ends only but with 410s in 5th gear 3000 rpm 80 mph. On street I normally start off in second then to fourth.

 

That answers my question! Very cool! Thanks Louie!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, this is my advice under certain conditions. Turn off the Traction control if your intent is to do a burnout, engage in a "stop light" Gran Prix, or, you are drag racing on a closed track.

 

T/C (and ABS) work off rotational wheel sensors at each wheel, front and rear. The data is sent to the EEC and calculated. When one or more wheels are detected to be turning (or, not turning as if brake locked) at the same speed as the others (ala ABS), the EEC applies brakes to the other wheels, pulls timing and spark, it can even cut off fuel at a particular preset threshold. Many of us have tried to reprogram this data, with no success. It's in a protected area of the EEC.

 

Thus, if you're doing a burnout in the waterbox, or, staging at the tree, and one tire spins while another grips, the EEC (thinking you're in an uncontrolled slide) will make corrections to stabilize the car by slowing the spinning wheel. If you're racing, this isn't good for your ETs. And, applying brake to one rear axle and not the other, puts the differential clutches at risk for premature failure. Something got to slip, right?

 

 

You're exactly right. I tried my second gear stunt again on an entrance ramp and noticed that the car completely shut itself off. I thought it had actually died, but it just cut off for a second and when the car was back under control then the powertrain was restored. I don't like this feature although it may save some inexperienced driver some car repairs.

 

I was more wondering if we should permanently disable TCS. The only place I can see that I might like it is in wet/rainy conditions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was more wondering if we should permanently disable TCS. The only place I can see that I might like it is in wet/rainy conditions.

Sorry, this isn't going to work, least not by my attempts.

 

You can reprogram the tune data and it looks like you changed native settings, but it doesn't stick and the T/C and ABS continue to function as FMC dictates. This is how we found out it's in another area of the EEC that flash tunes can't touch.

 

I do recall a guy who did some custom rewiring with the T/C switch, so he didn't have to shut it off every time he started the car, but that was a while back too. I can't say it really worked, may have just shut off the dash light.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW I guess I'm the only one that cringes thinking about my expensive tires going up in smoke :hysterical2: you guys are making me feel old :)

 

 

 

Guess I'm gett'n old too. I don't treat my cars like that anymore. I have learned thru the years that there is a fine line between aggressive use and abuse. The way i use to beat on my cars when i was young i wouldn't even think about doing now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

well...the weather finally improved this weekend in Chicago...Mccoy...i tried and failed several times in second with the traction control off...car would stall...maybe my feet are too big. any options you can think of? Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...
...