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Help with diminished value claim


2FST4U

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I posted back in september that a woman backed into my car. Her insurance company, AAA. is giving me a hard time with the diminished value claim. Anyone who has successfuly completed one of these claims please give me the details. Did you need a lawyer, did you go to trial etc. Thanks

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I posted back in september that a woman backed into my car. Her insurance company, AAA. is giving me a hard time with the diminished value claim. Anyone who has successfuly completed one of these claims please give me the details. Did you need a lawyer, did you go to trial etc. Thanks

A good friend owns the best body shop in town and says that it is very difficult to get insurance companies to pay on the diminished value claim. I would be agressive and firm with the insurance adjuster. Document all conversations, (tape record them and tell them) and send all correspondence certified with return receipt requested. If they are not acting in good faith, get a lawyer and don't blink. I had one of my pizza drivers hit a brand new Mercedes with paper tags and they finally settled for a $20,000 diminished value after fixing the car. Of course, this was only part of the $600,000 lawsuit. Good luck.

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A good friend owns the best body shop in town and says that it is very difficult to get insurance companies to pay on the diminished value claim. I would be agressive and firm with the insurance adjuster. Document all conversations, (tape record them and tell them) and send all correspondence certified with return receipt requested. If they are not acting in good faith, get a lawyer and don't blink. I had one of my pizza drivers hit a brand new Mercedes with paper tags and they finally settled for a $20,000 diminished value after fixing the car. Of course, this was only part of the $600,000 lawsuit. Good luck.

 

I guess I got off lucky, one of my apprentice technicians knocked the body side moulding off of a I believe it was a 1996 Jeep Cherokee, The very large lady and her very large boyfriend both with no jobs are only sueing for $100k.....hip and shoulder damage you know!

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I posted back in september that a woman backed into my car. Her insurance company, AAA. is giving me a hard time with the diminished value claim. Anyone who has successfuly completed one of these claims please give me the details. Did you need a lawyer, did you go to trial etc. Thanks

 

 

Exactly what would the diminished value be?

 

How much damage was done?

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I went and read your post when this happened. You stated:

 

" The paint won't be as good as factory,and if they replace the fender there will be trace marks on the fender bolts and so on."

 

The paint should be BETTER than factory. At least it is when our body shop does it.

 

Why would there be any trace marks on the fender bolts and so on? Trace marks of what?

 

The fenders are painted before bolting them on the car. They come black and have to be prepped, primed and painted. There shouldn't be any trace marks from anything. It isn't like having the car repainted at the local $299 Maco paint job place.

 

You would be shocked if you seen all the cars that are damaged at the plant and then have to be repaired after the fact. We have a Mitsubishi plant by us and they send all their damaged cars to us to get repaired. I see some major damaged cars come in that they send us. Our body shop repairs them, they are sent back, get shipped to dealers across the country, and no one ever knows anything about it.

 

A lot of times when you see what appears to be flaws in the paint from the factory, it is usually where the car got damaged and repaired by the factory. Happens all the time.

 

It would seem to me that determining a deminished value would be very difficult to prove. How can you prove what value is lost if any at all? Other than actually selling it the car and then be able to show you only got X amount for it because it was damaged and repaired compared to what other cars with the same miles and options have actually sold for, how can you prove any dollar amount?

 

As a dealer, lets say you were trading it in. The mere fact you had a new hood and fender put on would not affect the trade in value at all. We would pay the same for your car as any other GT500 being the same year, same miles and options. Unless of course the body shop that did the painting did a lousy job with matching the color properly. If that didn't match and stood out where it was noticeable that would affect the value. It would affect the value by whatever amount it would cost us to repaint it again so it did match properly.

 

Look at the people that are having stripes painted on. To do that properly it requires sanding down the entire hood, trunk lid, spoiler and bumpers. They repainting them, then the stripes, then clear coating the entire panels.

 

Look at the hoods being replaced. KR Hoods, SS Hoods, etc. All those have to be painted to match. Are those all non matching and not as good as factory?

 

Basically, if the body shop does it right and you can't tell it was ever replaced or painted, then what is the diminished value? What amount? How do you arrive at that amount? How do you prove that amount is correct?

 

What amount are you claiming?

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Yes, go to a good body shop and no one will be able to tell that your car was repaired.......every town has a good body shop where the Rolls, Porches, MB, BMW get repaired from transport damage.......that's where you want to take your car. Good luck!

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I believe there is diminished value to the car after it is wrecked. If I were given the choice of buying a used Shelby that has been in a wreck versus buying one that has not been wrecked I would choose the one that has not been wrecked every time with all other things being equal, unless of course, the owner of the wrecked Shelby were willing to make it worth my while to buy his car.

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I" The paint won't be as good as factory,and if they replace the fender there will be trace marks on the fender bolts and so on."

 

Why would there be any trace marks on the fender bolts and so on? Trace marks of what?

 

The fenders are painted before bolting them on the car. They come black and have to be prepped, primed and painted. There shouldn't be any trace marks from anything. It isn't like having the car repainted at the local $299 Maco paint job place.

I believe what he means by "trace marks" is that any bolt that has been turned by a wrench has a mark on it made by a wrench, however slight that might be. To the keen eye, this is noticeable and makes a car worth less since it's obvious some part has been changed.

 

I used to help many people buy used cars. They would come back after looking at an old car and say "They said it only had 38,000 miles, and the odometer verified that (this was when they had 5 digit odometers), but I'm skeptical." I'd say "did you look at the clutch and brake pedal pads?". This was a sure way to tell...any car with 38,000 miles won't have one corner of the pedal pad worn down like a racing slick. :finger:

 

Dave

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I believe what he means by "trace marks" is that any bolt that has been turned by a wrench has a mark on it made by a wrench, however slight that might be. To the keen eye, this is noticeable and makes a car worth less since it's obvious some part has been changed.

 

I used to help many people buy used cars. They would come back after looking at an old car and say "They said it only had 38,000 miles, and the odometer verified that (this was when they had 5 digit odometers), but I'm skeptical." I'd say "did you look at the clutch and brake pedal pads?". This was a sure way to tell...any car with 38,000 miles won't have one corner of the pedal pad worn down like a racing slick. :finger:

 

Dave

 

 

So are you saying when the bolts are installed at the plant they won't leave any marks, but once they are unbolted and bolted again it will?

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I could see where this might be justifible if this were a rear quarter panel were the unibody stucture is compromised. There is no way to duplicate the factory assembly and paint(I did not say quality because I don't think the factory paint is all that great). For one most body shops are not as precise as a machine from the factory. Second the body shop would have to strip everything out the car to bake the paint to the same temp as factory which I know insurance would never pay for. I can see where 2fst4u is coming from if he is wanting to hold on to the car for future collector value. If I were a collector buying lets say 1967 Shelby GT500 it would be worth alot more to me and most collectors for it to be 100% original. How much? I would not know because I am not a collector :hysterical2: I am an enthusiest :happy feet: For me I shy away from cars that have been wrecked unless it was minor and a good deal! JMO

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I posted back in september that a woman backed into my car. Her insurance company, AAA. is giving me a hard time with the diminished value claim. Anyone who has successfuly completed one of these claims please give me the details. Did you need a lawyer, did you go to trial etc. Thanks

Either the repairs are done correctly or not. If their not done correctly, get the insurance to help you find someone that can make it write. I personally think asking for diminished value on a fender bender is one of the reasons people pay so much for insurance. How do you know Ford didn't repair your car after it was hit in the parking lot? You don't. I have found evidence of body repairs to a friends new Shelby GT500, his car is worth every penny mine is and has no diminished value. I think your wasting your time. Just my opinion.

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Either the repairs are done correctly or not. If their not done correctly, get the insurance to help you find someone the can make it write. I personally think asking for diminished value on a fender bender is one of the reasons people pay so much for insurance. How do you know Ford didn't repair your car after it was hit in the parking lot? You don't. I have found evidence of body repairs to a friends new Shelby GT500, his car is worth every penny mine is and has no diminished value. I think your wasting your time. Just my opinion.

 

 

Correct.

 

This isn't like the old days where body parts are banged out, holes drilled in them to pull dents and repaired with bondo to fix the damage. That would definitely be a problem as far as future value.

 

Today most parts are just bolt ons that are easily replaced. Not much different than replacing normal wear & tear parts. Does changing the brake pads, rotors, plugs, filters, fluids, tires, etc diminish the value?

 

Bumpers, fenders, hoods are merely all bolt on replaceable parts. Some of these are replaced at the factory because of being damaged and no one ever knows about it.

 

Some are damaged in transit and get repaired at the dealership and no one ever knows about it. Some get damaged while sitting at dealerships and get repaired and no one ever knows about it.

 

Now if we are talking about a major wreck where there was substancial damage and the insurance company chose to repair it VS totalling it just to save a few bucks, then yes, I can certainly see a diminished value.

 

Look at the GT500's that got damaged during delivery when the transport drivers were tearing up the front ends on them. A lot of those were sold cars, that buyers paid a huge premium for, the dealer just fixed it by ordering new bumpers and stripes and the buyers still bought the cars paying the huge premiums they agreed to pay.

 

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand how anyone would feel about their car being damaged, no matter how minor, and I know I wouldn't like it, but it happens. If it bothered me that much then I would sell it and get another one. Then once I sold it and if I could document that the amount I sold it for was a lot less than what other used GT500's were currently selling for with simular miles on them, then I would try to get the insurance company to pay for the lost value. Other than actually selling the car in order to establish a diminished value, how else can you prove there is any diminished value?

 

How much value is affected by replacing a fender, hood and bumper? In my opinion none, unless the paint didn't match and it was so obvious because the different shades were noticeable. But that would be the result of a bad paint job by the body shop.

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Now if we are talking about a major wreck where there was substancial damage and the insurance company chose to repair it VS totalling it just to save a few bucks, then yes, I can certainly see a diminished value.

 

Look at the GT500's that got damaged during delivery when the transport drivers were tearing up the front ends on them. A lot of those were sold cars, that buyers paid a huge premium for, the dealer just fixed it by ordering new bumpers and stripes and the buyers still bought the cars paying the huge premiums they agreed to pay.

 

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand how anyone would feel about their car being damaged, no matter how minor, and I know I wouldn't like it, but it happens. If it bothered me that much then I would sell it and get another one. Then once I sold it and if I could document that the amount I sold it for was a lot less than what other used GT500's were currently selling for with simular miles on them, then I would try to get the insurance company to pay for the lost value. Other than actually selling the car in order to establish a diminished value, how else can you prove there is any diminished value?

 

How much value is affected by replacing a fender, hood and bumper? In my opinion none, unless the paint didn't match and it was so obvious because the different shades were noticeable. But that would be the result of a bad paint job by the body shop.

+1

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Exactly what would the diminished value be?

 

How much damage was done?

I paid $450 to an independent appraisal company called ADA it came in at $8000. The body shop replaced the right front fender, headlight assy and repaired the hood. The paint was blended over both doors, front fenders and hood.

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I paid $450 to an independent appraisal company called ADA it came in at $8000. The body shop replaced the right front fender, headlight assy and repaired the hood. The paint was blended over both doors, front fenders and hood.

 

 

They are saying $8K off the current value as a result of the damage?

 

What is the current value they are basing that on?

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I went and read your post when this happened. You stated:

 

" The paint won't be as good as factory,and if they replace the fender there will be trace marks on the fender bolts and so on."

 

The paint should be BETTER than factory. At least it is when our body shop does it.

 

Why would there be any trace marks on the fender bolts and so on? Trace marks of what?

 

The fenders are painted before bolting them on the car. They come black and have to be prepped, primed and painted. There shouldn't be any trace marks from anything. It isn't like having the car repainted at the local $299 Maco paint job place.

 

You would be shocked if you seen all the cars that are damaged at the plant and then have to be repaired after the fact. We have a Mitsubishi plant by us and they send all their damaged cars to us to get repaired. I see some major damaged cars come in that they send us. Our body shop repairs them, they are sent back, get shipped to dealers across the country, and no one ever knows anything about it.

 

A lot of times when you see what appears to be flaws in the paint from the factory, it is usually where the car got damaged and repaired by the factory. Happens all the time.

 

It would seem to me that determining a deminished value would be very difficult to prove. How can you prove what value is lost if any at all? Other than actually selling it the car and then be able to show you only got X amount for it because it was damaged and repaired compared to what other cars with the same miles and options have actually sold for, how can you prove any dollar amount?

 

As a dealer, lets say you were trading it in. The mere fact you had a new hood and fender put on would not affect the trade in value at all. We would pay the same for your car as any other GT500 being the same year, same miles and options. Unless of course the body shop that did the painting did a lousy job with matching the color properly. If that didn't match and stood out where it was noticeable that would affect the value. It would affect the value by whatever amount it would cost us to repaint it again so it did match properly.

 

Look at the people that are having stripes painted on. To do that properly it requires sanding down the entire hood, trunk lid, spoiler and bumpers. They repainting them, then the stripes, then clear coating the entire panels.

 

Look at the hoods being replaced. KR Hoods, SS Hoods, etc. All those have to be painted to match. Are those all non matching and not as good as factory?

 

Basically, if the body shop does it right and you can't tell it was ever replaced or painted, then what is the diminished value? What amount? How do you arrive at that amount? How do you prove that amount is correct?

 

What amount are you claiming?

Anyone with a good eye can look at a car and tell it has been repaired. Tort law states I have the right to be made whole after damages. I had a Shelby in original condition. Now I have one with paint and parts not part of the original assembly. If you had 2 cars side by side , one with body work and one without both for the same price which one would you choose? I don't know about you but even it it were a standard production car I would take the one without damages. The insurance company is telling me there is no difference. I disagree.

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So are you saying when the bolts are installed at the plant they won't leave any marks, but once they are unbolted and bolted again it will?

Exactly .When the car is painted at the factory all the body panels are on the car. When a fender is replaced all the attaching bolts are removed and the paint it chipped off. This is one way to tell if a car has had body work.

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Correct.

 

This isn't like the old days where body parts are banged out, holes drilled in them to pull dents and repaired with bondo to fix the damage. That would definitely be a problem as far as future value.

 

Today most parts are just bolt ons that are easily replaced. Not much different than replacing normal wear & tear parts. Does changing the brake pads, rotors, plugs, filters, fluids, tires, etc diminish the value?

 

Bumpers, fenders, hoods are merely all bolt on replaceable parts. Some of these are replaced at the factory because of being damaged and no one ever knows about it.

 

Some are damaged in transit and get repaired at the dealership and no one ever knows about it. Some get damaged while sitting at dealerships and get repaired and no one ever knows about it.

 

Now if we are talking about a major wreck where there was substancial damage and the insurance company chose to repair it VS totalling it just to save a few bucks, then yes, I can certainly see a diminished value.

 

Look at the GT500's that got damaged during delivery when the transport drivers were tearing up the front ends on them. A lot of those were sold cars, that buyers paid a huge premium for, the dealer just fixed it by ordering new bumpers and stripes and the buyers still bought the cars paying the huge premiums they agreed to pay.

 

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand how anyone would feel about their car being damaged, no matter how minor, and I know I wouldn't like it, but it happens. If it bothered me that much then I would sell it and get another one. Then once I sold it and if I could document that the amount I sold it for was a lot less than what other used GT500's were currently selling for with simular miles on them, then I would try to get the insurance company to pay for the lost value. Other than actually selling the car in order to establish a diminished value, how else can you prove there is any diminished value?

 

How much value is affected by replacing a fender, hood and bumper? In my opinion none, unless the paint didn't match and it was so obvious because the different shades were noticeable. But that would be the result of a bad paint job by the body shop.

It's obvious most people don't care. When I picked up my car I looked it over. I could tell if there had been any factory or transport damage. Maybe most people can't. Beside the fact that legally these things would have to be disclosed, If I found repairs at delivery I wouldn't take the car. I didn't pay for a new damaged car however minor the repair! All I asked for was information from people with similar circumstances, not wether diminished value was justifiable!

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Anyone with a good eye can look at a car and tell it has been repaired. Tort law states I have the right to be made whole after damages. I had a Shelby in original condition. Now I have one with paint and parts not part of the original assembly. If you had 2 cars side by side , one with body work and one without both for the same price which one would you choose? I don't know about you but even it it were a standard production car I would take the one without damages. The insurance company is telling me there is no difference. I disagree.

 

 

The same would hold true where if one was original VS one that was modified.

 

I notice you did some mods to your car, so what does that do for it as far as being original?

 

Naturally one that is completely stock would be worth more.

 

The other problem is finding two identical cars in the same colors, same options and same miles with same mods.

 

So lets say you wanted a Vista Blue and that is the only one out there other than, say, a white one with same miles and options? Both the same price. Which would you buy? I would probably buy the color I wanted rather than the color I didn't want just because one had a new fender put on.

 

What did they appraise the total value at?

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They are saying $8K off the current value as a result of the damage?

 

What is the current value they are basing that on?

Kelly Blue book shows the value of these cars has already increased substantially. But top dollar is only for a car in perfect condition with no paint or body work. As indicated in their book.

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It's obvious most people don't care. When I picked up my car I looked it over. I could tell if there had been any factory or transport damage. Maybe most people can't. Beside the fact that legally these things would have to be disclosed, If I found repairs at delivery I wouldn't take the car. I didn't pay for a new damaged car however minor the repair! All I asked for was information from people with similar circumstances, not wether diminished value was justifiable!

 

 

What law would that be that states any damage that was repaired must be disclosed?

 

I guess Ford Motor Company is not aware of any such law because they NEVER disclose any damage that was done at the factory prior to shipping the car out. They just patch them up and ship them out.

 

I think there is a law that requires disclosure but it has to be over a certain dollar amount which I think is several thousand dollars.

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The same would hold true where if one was original VS one that was modified.

 

I notice you did some mods to your car, so what does that do for it as far as being original?

 

Naturally one that is completely stock would be worth more.

 

The other problem is finding two identical cars in the same colors, same options and same miles with same mods.

 

So lets say you wanted a Vista Blue and that is the only one out there other than, say, a white one with same miles and options? Both the same price. Which would you buy? I would probably buy the color I wanted rather than the color I didn't want just because one had a new fender put on.

 

What did they appraise the total value at?

I have every part to put the car back to original condition. I can't put back the original fender or paint.

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Kelly Blue book shows the value of these cars has already increased substantially. But top dollar is only for a car in perfect condition with no paint or body work. As indicated in their book.

 

 

Kelly Blue Book is grossly inflated.

 

No one is getting anything near what Kelly Blue Book shows.

 

Dealers can't even get close to that on new 07's. How is anyone going to get that on a used one, with miles, and that has been modified????

 

That isn't being realistic. Not even close.

 

The fact is there are used 07's selling in the low 40's and new 07 & 08's selling for MSRP now. That is more than enough to establish current market value.

 

Also, Kelly Blue Book or any other book can claim any value they want. They don't buy vehicles. Actual selling prices determine value. Not what someone prints in a book or on a website.

 

Are you saying the company you paid $450 to based total value on what Kelly Blue Book says???

 

Is there a reason why you keep avoiding what they appraised the value of your car at?

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What law would that be that states any damage that was repaired must be disclosed?

 

I guess Ford Motor Company is not aware of any such law because they NEVER disclose any damage that was done at the factory prior to shipping the car out. They just patch them up and ship them out.

 

I think there is a law that requires disclosure but it has to be over a certain dollar amount which I think is several thousand dollars.

Where I live if a dealer sells a new car with damage and no disclosure they would have to take the car back at the vary least and hope the Attorney General was in a good mood that day.

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I have every part to put the car back to original condition. I can't put back the original fender or paint.

 

 

You also can't take back the extra HP you ran through the engine as a result of adding the mods to it.

 

So given a choice, two identical cars, one factory never modded, one that was modded and driven with more HP and returned to stock, which one would you buy if they are identical and the same price?

 

I would pick the one that was factory and never modded. Wouldn't you?

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Where I live if a dealer sells a new car with damage and no disclosure they would have to take the car back at the vary least and hope the Attorney General was in a good mood that day.

 

 

That is probably based on a dealer KNOWINGLY selling a car that was damaged.

 

If the factory damages it and repairs it, and does not disclose that then how is a dealer to know?

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Kelly Blue Book is grossly inflated.

 

No one is getting anything near what Kelly Blue Book shows.

 

Dealers can't even get close to that on new 07's. How is anyone going to get that on a used one, with miles, and that has been modified????

 

That isn't being realistic. Not even close.

 

The fact is there are used 07's selling in the low 40's and new 07 & 08's selling for MSRP now. That is more than enough to establish current market value.

 

Also, Kelly Blue Book or any other book can claim any value they want. They don't buy vehicles. Actual selling prices determine value. Not what someone prints in a book or on a website.

 

Are you saying the company you paid $450 to based total value on what Kelly Blue Book says???

 

Is there a reason why you keep avoiding what they appraised the value of your car at?

They sent someone out to examine the car, did a market study, found 4 used Shelbys the lowest price being $51000. MSRP was $43000. Simple subtraction gives the result.

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That is probably based on a dealer KNOWINGLY selling a car that was damaged.

 

If the factory damages it and repairs it, and does not disclose that then how is a dealer to know?

It's obvious we're on opposite sides of the fence. It's been fun but I think I'm going to take my devalued Shelby for a spin, later.

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