Sharp GT500 Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 The inside of my exhaust tips are black and yesterday when I left home there was a huge cloud of black smoke coming out the back of the car. It only did it the first time I took off. I've had the car for about 5 weeks and there is about 300 miles on it. It was 42 degrees yesterday so I let it run about a minute before I took off. I have all ways had black exhaust tips, even when it was warm out. I know this means it's running too rich but I would like to know if anyone else has this trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 The inside of my exhaust tips are black and yesterday when I left home there was a huge cloud of black smoke coming out the back of the car. It only did it the first time I took off. I've had the car for about 5 weeks and there is about 300 miles on it. It was 42 degrees yesterday so I let it run about a minute before I took off. I have all ways had black exhaust tips, even when it was warm out. I know this means it's running too rich but I would like to know if anyone else has this trouble. No...though I remember someone else mentioned this some time ago and I never heard what the resolution was. From a quick Google search: Black Smoke: Black smoke is caused by excess fuel that has entered the cylinder area and cannot be burned completely. Another term for excess fuel is "running rich." Poor fuel mileage is also a common complaint when black smoke comes out of the tailpipe. Black smoke out the tailpipe is the least cause for alarm. Excess fuel will usually effect engine performance, reduce fuel economy, and produce a fuel odor. How did the fuel get into the cylinder in the first place? Some of the causes of excess fuel are a carburetor that is out of adjustment, a faulty fuel pump, a leaky fuel injector, or a faulty engine computer or computer sensor. If black smoke is present, check the engine oil as in the white smoke example to make sure excess fuel has not contaminated it. Do not start the engine if a heavy, raw fuel smell can be detected in the engine oil. Call your mechanic and advise him of what you have found. I hope this helps you determine what could be causing your engine smoke, and the possible reasons behind the smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I am not an expert and I am only speaking from experience with my supercharged Shelby GT. I had some issues when I first brought my car home. I didn't have black smoke but problems none the less. I took the car to a dyno tuner and found out that the car tune was so rich that the air fuel mixture didn't even show up on the chart. After about an hour and a half with the tuner everything was better. If you think your car is too rich I would get it to a dyno. A diagnostic tune shouldn't cost more than $100-150 and if nothing else will give you peace of mind. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp GT500 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks every one. This doesn't sound normal for the Shelby GT. I'm planning on sending the car back and get a super charger put on. With winter here I can't drive it much more so I think wait until spring to do anything. I'll know for sure if I can get an S/C by then and if not I'll do some other modes and have it dyno tuned at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormeaston Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Run her down to the dealer, it's under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingram4868 Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Run her down to the dealer, it's under warranty. Ditto, why wait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I agree. Get here to a dealer. I didn't look past your screen name and thought you had the supercharger already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Yeah, you should definitely not have any black smoke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydro Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 The inside of my exhaust tips are black and yesterday when I left home there was a huge cloud of black smoke coming out the back of the car. It only did it the first time I took off. I've had the car for about 5 weeks and there is about 300 miles on it. It was 42 degrees yesterday so I let it run about a minute before I took off. I have all ways had black exhaust tips, even when it was warm out. I know this means it's running too rich but I would like to know if anyone else has this trouble. In my opinion it looks like you have a Intake "Vacuum Leak"the Oxygen sensors sense a lean condition and enrich the mixture by increasing the duty cycle time of the fuel injectors therefore making "Black Smoke" come out of the tailpipe.I would look for a loose connection in the inlet duct leading to the throttle body.hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp GT500 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Great idea hydro. I'll check in the AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp GT500 Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Everything hydro suggested checked out fine. It's clear this is not topical so to the dealer it goes. It snowed to day so I won't be able to get it there until spring. I agree. Get here to a dealer. I didn't look past your screen name and thought you had the supercharger already. Sorry about the confusion because of screen name. I wanted to join with that name because it was a definite mod I was going to do. I have sense found out I might be losing my job. I should know by next time I have to renew if I can do it or not. I'll rejoin with out the SC in my name if I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 If you're getting a lot of black smoke you may really be washing the/a cylinder wall/s, so take her easy when you drive her so you don't score a cylinder. Just curious, does it get 'clean' once warmed up? If it seems that way, after it's fully warmend and running 'clean' you can carefully <hot!> wipe the black off the inside of the exhaust tip and take a nice ride. It should still be perfectly clean even after 30+ miles (my old '92 Ranger is still quite clean after 500 miles of driving and many cold starts -- I check it regularly). If you're picking up and noticeable black after 30-50 miles, the problem is there all the time and you're just noticing it when it's cold and super-rich. Might help the dealer diagnose it too -- dunno, since they'll just go by the test procedure -- but it will give you a baseline to compare against after they do 'fix' it too. ..just a thought. But, yeah, I'd get it looked at asap either way ...it's not right. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp GT500 Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 If you're getting a lot of black smoke you may really be washing the/a cylinder wall/s, so take her easy when you drive her so you don't score a cylinder. Just curious, does it get 'clean' once warmed up? If it seems that way, after it's fully warmend and running 'clean' you can carefully <hot!> wipe the black off the inside of the exhaust tip and take a nice ride. It should still be perfectly clean even after 30+ miles (my old '92 Ranger is still quite clean after 500 miles of driving and many cold starts -- I check it regularly). If you're picking up and noticeable black after 30-50 miles, the problem is there all the time and you're just noticing it when it's cold and super-rich. Might help the dealer diagnose it too -- dunno, since they'll just go by the test procedure -- but it will give you a baseline to compare against after they do 'fix' it too. ..just a thought. But, yeah, I'd get it looked at asap either way ...it's not right. Dan The black smoke was only at cold start up and goes away after the first time I take off. I got some "bucking" in first gear trying to take off easy at the same time. After a few minutes every thing seems fine. You have a good suggestion but it will have to wait until spring (stupid snow). I have about 350 miles on the car but I have the same "washing" concern you mentioned. So my first trip in the spring will be right to the dealer to be checked out and have the oil changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 A. good luck on the job front. B. winter really sucks for some, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 The first time I cleaned my car, it had a couple hundred miles. I never noticed any black smoke, but the exhaust tips were filthy. I wiped them out and kept an eye in my mirror but didn't notice anything... I now have about 2000 miles (in a month! ) on it and the tips have never gotten black or even dirty again... I will let her rest for most of the winter to minimize miles. (Don't want 24000 miles a year! lol) If yours smokes, I would take to dealer at once before many more miles. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTrickPony Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 My tips have been spotless inside from the get go. I have almost 1k on the car and nothing. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamRide Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 So? What was the out come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOPPERS Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 So? What was the out come? I HAVE A S/C GT-H, MINE ARE BLACK, RAN IT ON THE DYNO, IT WAS RUNNING AT 10:1, THE PROGRAM THAT CAME WITH THE SUPERCHARGER KIT IS VERY RICH, THEY ARE GOING TO CORRECT THIS, THEY ARE TRYING FOR 12:1. I HAVE THE DIABLO PROGRAM AND A MAFIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Another possibility is a defective injector that sticks open and dumps raw fuel into a cylinder after you shut the engine down. It's a double fuel charge on start up, sending a very rich signal from the primary O2 sensors mounted just before the cats. This will cause the "bucking" you describe, and it will correct itself after a few minutes of driving at normal EOTs. About 7 minutes. The secondary problem here, is that the extra fuel also disolves the lubrication native to the cylinder walls, drys things out and can contaminate engine oil. This will result in excessive wear and tear if not addressed soon. Go easy with it until you can get it to a service department. Keep us posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6-Speed Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I HAVE A S/C GT-H, MINE ARE BLACK, RAN IT ON THE DYNO, IT WAS RUNNING AT 10:1, THE PROGRAM THAT CAME WITH THE SUPERCHARGER KIT IS VERY RICH, THEY ARE GOING TO CORRECT THIS, THEY ARE TRYING FOR 12:1. I HAVE THE DIABLO PROGRAM AND A MAFIA. Wow 10:1, that is way too rich! Your performance should improve substantially with 12:1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOPPERS Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Wow 10:1, that is way too rich! Your performance should improve substantially with 12:1. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THE TUNER SAID, THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THE DIABLO PROGRAM WOULD NOT RESPOND TO ANY TUNING....HE WILL BE CALLING THEM MONDAY MORNING TO SEE WHAT'S UP, OTHERWISE HE SUGGESTED HE WRITE HIS OWN CUSTOM PROGRAM. I THINK I WOULD RATHER HAVE THE DIABLO, BUT AM A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO WHY THE DIABLO WON'T ADJUST....MY CAR IS STILL STRAPPED TO THE DYNO WAITING TO GET THIS FIXED RIGHT. I JUST PUT IN DIAMOND FORGED PISTONS, MANLEY FORGED RODS, BALANCED AND POLISHED STOCK CRANK, CRANE CAMS AND SPRINGS, PORTED HEADS WITH 3 ANGLE VALVE JOB, FORD RACING STAINLESS HEADERS...THIS SHOULD BE MUCH HEALTHIER THAN MY STOCK ENGINE, AFTER I BOLTED ON THE PAXTON 2200 H.O. IT BLEW UP RIGHT AWAY. PISTONS COULDN'T HANDLE IT, EXPLODED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 It blew up when the internals were still stock and after you added the paxton? Dan btw, WELCOME TO STANGS UNLEASHED (or whatever the site is called this week ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOPPERS Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 It blew up when the internals were still stock and after you added the paxton? Dan btw, WELCOME TO STANGS UNLEASHED (or whatever the site is called this week ) YES, IT BLEW UP WITH STOCK INTERNALS, 2 TIMES AROUND THE BLOCK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Yikes! Well, that's the best reason for a built motor ;-) Hope it comes together well for ya! :happy feet: Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp GT500 Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 So? What was the out come? Sorry about the delayed response. Unfortunately winter hit early and the car is in storage until probably march. I'll let you know how I make out then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp GT500 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I know this is a very long over due update. With winter and the fact I only drive the car about 11 miles a day, it took me this long to have it checked. Basically, the dealer said the adaptive fuel strategy would take care of the problem when I get some miles on it. I have 1100 miles on it and no longer have the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Good to hear that -- glad it's fixed. The adaptave strategy has a fairly broad 'calibration' -- a +/- 12.5% mask range , I believe (25% overall). You mentioned you drive about 11 miles a day -- I'm assuming about 5.5 x 2 (commute?). If so, though that's plenty for your water temp to show fully warmed, it's actually not far enough to drive all condensate moisture out of the engine, so an occasional longer drive will be a good thing for your baby, imo. Fwiw, according to a Ford master tech I know for many years, he claims it takes at minimum of either 20 miles or 20 minutes (whichever occurs first) of sustained driving to minimize acid formation in a typical modern V8 (for cars with automatics that's also when to check trans fluid level -- hot, idling, neitral). So now you have a good excuse for more fun weekend drives Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Good to hear that -- glad it's fixed. The adaptave strategy has a fairly broad 'calibration' -- a +/- 12.5% mask range , I believe (25% overall).Dan Agreed, sir. This is why folks who add the Steeda induction bellows (elbow), they shouldn't have to re-tune. Any adjustment is well within the parameters of EEC flexibility. You mentioned you drive about 11 miles a day -- I'm assuming about 5.5 x 2 (commute?). If so, though that's plenty for your water temp to show fully warmed, it's actually not far enough to drive all condensate moisture out of the engine, so an occasional longer drive will be a good thing for your baby, imo. Dan Agreed again. Longer drives with a few WOTs tossed in, is very healthy exercise. This pony needs to stretch her loins. Fwiw, according to a Ford master tech I know for many years, he claims it takes at minimum of either 20 miles or 20 minutes (whichever occurs first) of sustained driving to minimize acid formation in a typical modern V8 (for cars with automatics that's also when to check trans fluid level -- hot, idling, neitral). Dan No disagrement with you, Dan, There's a lot of V-8s out there. But, I would like to add some 411. One of my friends up in Livonia, MI. is one of the engineers/developers of the software we (and all S197s) drive on. The EPA warned Ford that the EEC-IV technology was dated and to expect rule changes effective with the '05 MY release. One of them was engine warm-up that required a change in programming from earlier years, which lead to the development of the EEC-V (BTW, this is also when Ford developed a method of tracing EEC flash-overs). Today, the EPA requires the 4.6L-3V engine (and others I am sure) to reach normal engine coolant temperatures with 7 minutes of a cold start. I tested this myself on a zero degree day, and required ECT is achieved in roughly 1 mile of city driving. This is a scheme involving several features, including heated O2 sensors and wider scope open loop operations. On both my SGT and my '08 GM, I get warm air (not very, but warmer than ambient) from my HVAC within 7 minutes/1 mile of normal driving. You can check this feature yourself with a OBDII scan tool, I use the Scanguage II. http://www.scangauge.com/ This unusually high ECT is the result of a 197 degree thermostat and it works against us in performance. The 4.6L-3V engine could produce better mileage and improved performance at slightly cooler temps centering around 180 degrees. You could also improve aftermarket tuning performance if you could just cool the ECT, and select cooler spark plugs such as the Denso IT-20. Not trying to de-rail the exchange of thought, gents, just add to it. Happy motoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Agreed, sir. This is why folks who add the Steeda induction bellows (elbow), they shouldn't have to re-tune. Any adjustment is well within the parameters of EEC flexibility. Agreed again. Longer drives with a few WOTs tossed in, is very healthy exercise. This pony needs to stretch her loins. No disagrement with you, Dan, There's a lot of V-8s out there. But, I would like to add some 411. One of my friends up in Livonia, MI. is one of the engineers/developers of the software we (and all S197s) drive on. The EPA warned Ford that the EEC-IV technology was dated and to expect rule changes effective with the '05 MY release. One of them was engine warm-up that required a change in programming from earlier years, which lead to the development of the EEC-V (BTW, this is also when Ford developed a method of tracing EEC flash-overs). Today, the EPA requires the 4.6L-3V engine (and others I am sure) to reach normal engine coolant temperatures with 7 minutes of a cold start. I tested this myself on a zero degree day, and required ECT is achieved in roughly 1 mile of city driving. This is a scheme involving several features, including heated O2 sensors and wider scope open loop operations. On both my SGT and my '08 GM, I get warm air (not very, but warmer than ambient) from my HVAC within 7 minutes/1 mile of normal driving. You can check this feature yourself with a OBDII scan tool, I use the Scanguage II. http://www.scangauge.com/ This unusually high ECT is the result of a 197 degree thermostat and it works against us in performance. The 4.6L-3V engine could produce better mileage and improved performance at slightly cooler temps centering around 180 degrees. You could also improve aftermarket tuning performance if you could just cool the ECT, and select cooler spark plugs such as the Denso IT-20. Not trying to de-rail the exchange of thought, gents, just add to it. Happy motoring. Thanks Lulu -- good thoughts/insight. I've heard rumors that major ECU changes are coming with GDI/VVT, etc. Have you heard anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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