GT500SC07 Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Now that some of us are getting closer to owning one of these fine machines, that last thing I want to do is break in the engine inncorrectly. From previous post I have reviewed we have some talented members out there and I am sure some of you could enlighten us how to baby this motor properly until the time comes to burn the rubber off the wheels. :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Good question. I think the owner's manual will have Ford's interpretation of this. And everyone else will have their opinion! If your car gets driven by the salespeople at the Store where you'll pick it up - it will be broken in by the time you get the keys. Tell them it's "off the truck and locked up" - you don't need any "dealer prep" BS either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500OnOrder Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Now that some of us are getting closer to owning one of these fine machines, that last thing I want to do is break in the engine inncorrectly. From previous post I have reviewed we have some talented members out there and I am sure some of you could enlighten us how to baby this motor properly until the time comes to burn the rubber off the wheels. :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Ha. This thread will get as many opinions as "what type of oil to use" threads! Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest evilchris Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Ford mod motors are fully seated within 100 miles. The last Mustang engine that needed a proper break in was the 5.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Ford mod motors are fully seated within 100 miles. The last Mustang engine that needed a proper break in was the 5.0. In all honesty!!! Cross my heart!!! I want to thank you for your non-judgemental, and helpful information, to a question that I had been thinking about. Is that the only purpose to "breaking-in" an engine, is to seat all of the seals properly??? KingCobra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 In all honesty!!! Cross my heart!!! I want to thank you for your non-judgemental, and helpful information, to a question that I had been thinking about. Is that the only purpose to "breaking-in" an engine, is to seat all of the seals properly??? KingCobra. Not just the seal, an engine has many moving parts right. Well those parts do need to adjust "seat". Breaking in an engine is a process of properly wearing-in the pistons/cylinders/rings, bearings, valves, camshaft, lifters, rockers, etc... In addition, part of the breaking in process is not only wearing-in and seating the internal engine components but also stress relieving the components as well. Crankshafts, connecting rods, pistons, blocks etc... have many stresses due to the casting or forging process, machining and welding process. I have seen these stresses, called fringes, using what is called lazer holography. These stresses are properly reduced/eliminated by costly and time consuming heat aging as well as shot peening and or high frequency vibration on a very specialized bedplate for an extended period of time. For production applications this is cost and time prohibitive. Therefore, the next best thing is exposing your engine to multiple heating and cooling cycles under various load and RPM's. Breaking in a new engine is the one area that petroleum oil is better for than synthetics. You see, petroleum oil has a very low film strength which is ideal for breaking in a new engine. That is it’s recommended you run the factory installed petroleum oil for about the first 500 miles. Further heat cycling break-in will continue during the multiple heating and cooling cycles from driving your vehicle under varying RPM and engine load conditions and then shutting it down for a long period of time to let it cool completely. The multiple heating and cooling cycles are an extremely important factor in properly breaking in a new engine and are often an overlooked factor in the total break-in process. These heating and cooling cycles achieve what is called stress relieving. Back in the "old days" of engine manufacturing, after casting and before an engine block was machined, it would be set outside for several months to age, during which stress relieving occurred naturally, then the block was machined, which helped to produce a better engine than one that was machined immediately after casting. By changing the factory installed oil and filter after the first 500 miles you will also be removing the initial wear-in particulates (metal shavings) present in the oil and filter. The reason for this is that during initial wear-in there is very high particulate contamination in the oil. These particulates consist mainly of microscopic particles of aluminum, bronze, copper, lead and iron, plus soot particles and other by-products of combustion in your oil. Your filter cannot filter out all these small particulates as many are sub-micron size and too small for the filter to trap, BUT they are also small enough to fit between your bearing and other internal clearances and cause wear. That is why it is recommend that in order to properly break-in a new engine, regardless of what your new car salesman or dealership personnel tell you, is to perform the first oil and filter change at 500 miles and the second at 1,000 miles just to be safe. Once this is completed you should have yourself a perfectly broken in GT500, I hope this helps with you questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 The King has left the building! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVS2XS Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 King's post is VERY well written, but I would specifically add that heat cycling requires load and off load cycles. Babying the engine early on does not build enough heat in the pistons to get the pistons and rings to expand and thrust the rings hard enough into the bore walls to seat them correctly. The difference in bore roundness at cool temps and at higher temps can be staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Cobras Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 As far as the oil is concerned, my '04 Cobra was shipped with semi-synthetic oil (Motorcraft) 5W-20. Some folks 'recommend' you 'drive it like you stole it' right off the dealer's lot. If they were willing to back my car up with a parts and labor warrantee if I did that, I might think of doing that. Otherwise, cycling the engine heat and powerwise over a few hundred miles is the smart way in my opinion. The first few hundred miles will go fast enough, why force the issue? In addition, I always replace the drain plug(s) at the first oil change with magnetic drain plug(s) to catch shavings and particles the filter doesn't. Checking it at each oil change gives you a good and additional engine health assessment input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old guy Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 I will stick to Ford's recommended procedure. The engine is only one component that needs to be broken in. Factory break in recommendation takes the entire car into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVS2XS Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 It is YOUR car, treat is as you will. Take what I post as opinion based on experience, but still opinion. For me, break in is ALL about seating and leak down. Magnetic plugs can be placed in the engine, trans, and diff as well as stregically placing a small rare earth magnet on the filters. Early fluid changes on the trans and dif are as important as the engine. You might be surprised to see how MANY manufacturers dyno load the cars' drivetrains AT THE FACTORY, in order to start the engine seating in correctly - cars, trucks, boats, bikes, etc. http://www.nmraracing.com/forums/showthread.php?p=213301 http://www.mototuneusa.com/ - sign up and read the parts on break in - lots of photos of pistons and internals with correct and incorrect break in. Take this as you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVS2XS Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Leak down and blow by: If the rings do not seat correctly early in the break in process, the rings do not form a flat sealing edge, instead they round off at the top and bottom very slightly and will not seal as well and tend to flutter at higher rpm - beating the ring lands on the pistons. This results in increased fuel/air moving into the crankcase, reduced power, and diluting the oil - not to mention the increased crankcase pressure further reducing ring seal. Oil that SHOULD be lubricating and cooling the sides of the bores and pistons will see excessive heat and will build up on the skirts - especially below the rings. This again reduces ring seal, AND ENGINE LIFE. Reduced ring/bore seal also requires a slightly different tune for fuel and timing than an otherwise same engine seated and sealed correctly. Seating wear of gear faces is important as well. A rougher face robs power and produces heat. Roller and needle bearings do not need to seat in if they are designed and selected correctly - although others will argue differently. Treat you car the way you want - it is yours. But these lessons were learned the hard way (pronounced $$$), take this as you will. I am sure others can and will say this better than I, while yet others will argue otherwise - listen to both sides. -Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old guy Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Just thinking out loud here: Since the car will come with synthetic oil and each engine will be built individually by a two person team, do you think there might be some effort to break the engine in at the factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVS2XS Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 YES, but it is up to you to finish the job. There are a lot of variations in SVT vehicles' RWHP - even on the same dyno on the same day. A part of this can be attributed to break in. As these engines are modified for more power, the more important the break in becomes. I am NOT a be-all, end-all expert on this. I am just trying to share what I have learned hands-on, BEFORE we get these cars and it no longer matters. Weigh all sides of this issue, and check with as many reliable sources as possible - knowledge is POWER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flattusmaximus78 Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Just open up on it, and there you have it. Your gt500 is officiallt broken in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 My understanding is that the tolerances of the machine work done on engines these days are so tight that the break in periods that were required for vehicles even a few years ago no longer apply. Metal shavings are not produced like they were back in the day. This is information from my dad, an engineer for GM for over 35 years. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 I'm not discounting all the great opinions here, But! If SVT is proud of their engine work (as they seem to be), why wouldn't they tell us in the owner's manual how to best break in the engine? Not all owner's will be reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 I'm not discounting all the great opinions here, But! If SVT is proud of their engine work (as they seem to be), why wouldn't they tell us in the owner's manual how to best break in the engine? Not all owner's will be reading this thread. I am not discounting any of the great opinions here either but what do you have to loose if you break in your engine the time-tested way (as mentioned above). Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases, it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern engine. For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for using high power loading for short periods (to avoid excessive heat) during the break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures. you must achieve a happy medium where you are pushing on the ring hard enough to wear it in but not hard enough to generate enough heat to cause glazing. Once again, if glazing should occur, the only remedy is to remove the effected cylinder, re-hone it and replace the piston rings and start the whole process over again. "If the wrong type of oil is used initially, or the break-in is too easy, rings and cylinders could (read will) glaze and never seal properly. A fresh cylinder wall needs some medium to high engine loading to get the piston rings to seat properly for good compression but make sure you do not lug or overheat the engine. Use high quality, low viscosity oil (Valvoline 30 weight is good), no synthetics, too slippery. If synthetics are used during initial break-in the rings are sure to glaze over. This is just something else to think about, but I still have to ask: what do you have to loose if you use the time tested break-in process? Maybe a little time and energy- just to be safe and break-in your new GT500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTony Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Ford engineers know best - I'll be following their recommendations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Well said. But - if what you say is true, why wouldn't the engine gurus at SVT share the same thing with us vis a vie the owner's manual? Why would SVT go through choosing pistons and rings and rods and cams and all the other criteria to have a long-lasting high output engine and leave us on our own when it comes to break-in? That doesn't make much sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSteeds Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 "If synthetics are used during initial break-in the rings are sure to glaze over." This leads to my question: Of those who are advocating thus, which of you plan to drain the factory installed synthetic oil immediately and fill it with non-synth for the first 50-100 miles of break in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Well said. But - if what you say is true, why wouldn't the engine gurus at SVT share the same thing with us vis a vie the owner's manual? Why would SVT go through choosing pistons and rings and rods and cams and all the other criteria to have a long-lasting high output engine and leave us on our own when it comes to break-in? That doesn't make much sense to me. Nope you’re right, it would not make much sense. I am not saying that the engines are made/machined and than the break-in is solely left to the purchaser, and by the break-in, I mean the preparation to elongate the lifespan of the engine. The beginning of the seating is performed by the manufacturer, much as the machinists of old would cure the blocks naturally in the elements outside of the factory for months at a time. To finish the process you need to seat the engine properly, If not it is a crapshoot weather you will get a 100,000+ mile engine or a 50,000 mile engine or what some may call a lemon. You have to understand this and if you do not, you must understand that this process will not harm your engine and will only aid in the hopes of a lifetime of great driving memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
requis Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 This leads to my question: Of those who are advocating thus, which of you plan to drain the factory installed synthetic oil immediately and fill it with non-synth for the first 50-100 miles of break in? I Plan on replacing the Oil at the dealership...now if someone can tell me what Oil to drop in there for the break in period...noting I may get my vehicle in November...so if the car carrier drops it off in my Garage to sit for Six Months...whats the best way to prep for this shebauckle. Cheers, Requis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVS2XS Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Rufdraft - I do not know the answer to that question, and I have asked it myself. If you can track down the SVT engineers, I would like to ask them this question directly. AND find out how they break in their cars. Steelsteed - I Will. 30 weight Valvoline will be swapped for the factory lube before the car enters my drive - it will be changed a block and a half away from the dealership with my oil and filter - and will be the only time I do not change it myself. Just as was done on my Cobra and Lightning, and every other new car, boat, and new race engine I have owned for the past 10 years since I first ran 2 engines on the same dyno after testing the 2 different brake in processes. Awatters - What makes you think that the engineers had anything to do with what is printed in the owners manual - especially concerning break in? Remember, Ford HAS put things in the owner's manual that goes against what the tire manufacturer recommends. I bet the engineers had nothing to do with that. Have you ever noticed that magazines tend to test cars and bikes with more power than many users normally get on their vehicle? These are not "ringer" engines - now you know why. Do yourself a favor, track down a couple of racers in several different types of racing that are winning or at least very competitive their classes. Ask them how they break in their engines, and why. Not many people own a leak down tester. I would suggest getting one - a good one, not the typical ones with little gauges that you can't read. Then follow the directions that come with it and test the leakdown on the vehicles in your driveway. Each and every percent of blow by past the rings is lost power and reduced life. Have you ever had your used oil tested - or tested it yourself for acidity and fuel? The higher the acidity of your oil the more it attacks your engine. What makes the oil acidic and contain fuel? Burned and unburned products of combustion. Whether or not you choose to follow these recommendations is YOUR CHOICE. But I highly suggest you do as much research on this as possible before you get you car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old guy Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 ...If not it is a crapshoot weather you will get a 100,000+ mile engine or a 50,000 mile engine or what some may call a lemon. I can't remember the last time an engine that was properly cared for went TU after 50,000 miles. Those numbers seem to be referring to pre 1990 or so. Todays cars with reasonable (not pampered) care seem to be making it to 150K+ miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Sounds like this might be one of the first questions we ask the SVT Tech when we get the new Owner's Forum up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subguns Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Rufdraft - I do not know the answer to that question, and I have asked it myself. If you can track down the SVT engineers, I would like to ask them this question directly. AND find out how they break in their cars. Steelsteed - I Will. 30 weight Valvoline will be swapped for the factory lube before the car enters my drive - it will be changed a block and a half away from the dealership with my oil and filter - and will be the only time I do not change it myself. Just as was done on my Cobra and Lightning, and every other new car, boat, and new race engine I have owned for the past 10 years since I first ran 2 engines on the same dyno after testing the 2 different brake in processes. Awatters - What makes you think that the engineers had anything to do with what is printed in the owners manual - especially concerning break in? Remember, Ford HAS put things in the owner's manual that goes against what the tire manufacturer recommends. I bet the engineers had nothing to do with that. Have you ever noticed that magazines tend to test cars and bikes with more power than many users normally get on their vehicle? These are not "ringer" engines - now you know why. Do yourself a favor, track down a couple of racers in several different types of racing that are winning or at least very competitive their classes. Ask them how they break in their engines, and why. Not many people own a leak down tester. I would suggest getting one - a good one, not the typical ones with little gauges that you can't read. Then follow the directions that come with it and test the leakdown on the vehicles in your driveway. Each and every percent of blow by past the rings is lost power and reduced life. Have you ever had your used oil tested - or tested it yourself for acidity and fuel? The higher the acidity of your oil the more it attacks your engine. What makes the oil acidic and contain fuel? Burned and unburned products of combustion. Whether or not you choose to follow these recommendations is YOUR CHOICE. But I highly suggest you do as much research on this as possible before you get you car. You made an incredible amount of common sense that rings true with me and what I have been reading and hearing for years. My response is what could it hurt to change the oil immediately and again at 500 miles? A few bucks for oil and a filter and my own tinkering time is not much to pay for a car you hope to keep for many years. I have always beleived in magnetic plugs as well. Great written posts and I will be taking the advise as I don't see where it can do any harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtharmon633 Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Not just the seal, an engine has many moving parts right. Well those parts do need to adjust "seat". Breaking in an engine is a process of properly wearing-in the pistons/cylinders/rings, bearings, valves, camshaft, lifters, rockers, etc... In addition, part of the breaking in process is not only wearing-in and seating the internal engine components but also stress relieving the components as well. Crankshafts, connecting rods, pistons, blocks etc... have many stresses due to the casting or forging process, machining and welding process. I have seen these stresses, called fringes, using what is called lazer holography. These stresses are properly reduced/eliminated by costly and time consuming heat aging as well as shot peening and or high frequency vibration on a very specialized bedplate for an extended period of time. For production applications this is cost and time prohibitive. Therefore, the next best thing is exposing your engine to multiple heating and cooling cycles under various load and RPM's. Breaking in a new engine is the one area that petroleum oil is better for than synthetics. You see, petroleum oil has a very low film strength which is ideal for breaking in a new engine. That is it’s recommended you run the factory installed petroleum oil for about the first 500 miles. Further heat cycling break-in will continue during the multiple heating and cooling cycles from driving your vehicle under varying RPM and engine load conditions and then shutting it down for a long period of time to let it cool completely. The multiple heating and cooling cycles are an extremely important factor in properly breaking in a new engine and are often an overlooked factor in the total break-in process. These heating and cooling cycles achieve what is called stress relieving. Back in the "old days" of engine manufacturing, after casting and before an engine block was machined, it would be set outside for several months to age, during which stress relieving occurred naturally, then the block was machined, which helped to produce a better engine than one that was machined immediately after casting. By changing the factory installed oil and filter after the first 500 miles you will also be removing the initial wear-in particulates (metal shavings) present in the oil and filter. The reason for this is that during initial wear-in there is very high particulate contamination in the oil. These particulates consist mainly of microscopic particles of aluminum, bronze, copper, lead and iron, plus soot particles and other by-products of combustion in your oil. Your filter cannot filter out all these small particulates as many are sub-micron size and too small for the filter to trap, BUT they are also small enough to fit between your bearing and other internal clearances and cause wear. That is why it is recommend that in order to properly break-in a new engine, regardless of what your new car salesman or dealership personnel tell you, is to perform the first oil and filter change at 500 miles and the second at 1,000 miles just to be safe. Once this is completed you should have yourself a perfectly broken in GT500, I hope this helps with you questions. This new stang comes with fully synthetic oil and requires premium grade fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Puh-leeze - let's not talk about the Premium fuel deal.... I told wifey it runs on 87... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.