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Mustang5

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Hi Guys,

 

I was the one who posted the previous topics: Engine Tick and Engine Tick Revisited. Any way to make a long story short the proposed solution to my problem was to replace all of my lifters which my local dealership did under warranty. The original ticking sound that I heard has been reduced significantly all though not gone completely. The part that is now bothering me is that the car is now making a new sound that I did not notice before. The sound is a rythmic ticking type sound that is most prominent under the car behind the front wheels. It could almost be mistaken for an exhaust leak but is not. I am asking for your help. The next time you have driven your car for awhile (in other words good and warmed up) would you please listen for just a minute down at ground level behind the right front wheel. As you all know the chance of running into another GT 500 on the road is pretty slim. If I can build up a little data base based on your answers I'll either feel comfortable knowing that my new found sound is normal or that know one else has it and I can go back to my dealership with a little bit of fire power for further action. I'll thank you all in advance.

 

Happy driving,

 

Rob

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How could have gotten your lifters replaced, when the engine doesn't even have lifters?

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How could have gotten your lifters replaced, when the engine doesn't even have lifters?

 

+1 no DOHC lifters, just cam lobes on finger followers on valve stems.

 

Possibly they changed the followers (or did nothing but an adjustment of some kind and are BSing).

 

The sound your describing could be piston-skirt slap -- long stroke motors are prone to it but these motors are so well made my bet is it's a latent defect of some kind and you ought to push for a whole new motor (or at lest a new short-block, if you trust the competency of the dealer service on this -- I would not) if that is what it is. Piston slap (if that's it) is more noticeable when cold and worse the colder it is. It's often caused by the piston rocking excessively because a lubrication problem has affected the cylinder wall to piston interface. Sometimes it's induced by piston-pin lubrication/damage but it never gets better, only worse.

 

The 460cid 385-series motor was prone to it if overrevved when cold (I had one that had it since new but took soe 80K miles to get really bad --Ford tried to dodge it until I wrote to Ford HQ Cust. Service). Conversely, highly oversquare motors (like the old 289s) virtually never develop it (unless there's a mfg problem) but the 5.4's highly undersquare design would be prone to it if it weren't for the fact that it's made so damn well. Still, that would be my first hunch and you would hear it down low more than above since the "slap" occurs against the sidewall of the cylinder (if that's it) and the 90* angle of the cylinder walls wants to throw the sound downward.

 

You can listen with an automotive "stethescope" to the sides of each cylinder (careful around the hot headers!!). A length of water-pump hose held to your ear will do in a pinch. When you listen at the midpoint of each cylinder, if one cylinder is making knocking noise that the others are not, piston-slap would be a logical reason. The water in the cooling jacket will 'telegraph' the sound very well and should you be able to notice a very real diff in the sound of one cylinder if it's slap.

 

I hope it's something simpler, but your description is classic piston-slap. If you hear it with the stethescope, have the dealer steth it with your present so they can't point to something else. If it's slap they know it's a big deal so don't let them dodge you. One step at a time...

 

Dan

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32 of them actually

 

Does your car also have push rods?

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I have 1980 miles on my car. I will be driving it tomorrow and I will take a good listen for you.

 

I have not noticed any ticks on my car as of yet. Full report tomorrow.

 

 

No ticks on mine, I use frontline plus for horses, kills them every time. :hysterical2::hysterical2:

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Does your car also have push rods?

 

Everyone's a comedian. My work order states that the lifters were replaced. I confess I'm not an engine expert, but when the dealership puts that in writing there must be something to it.

 

If someone can give me a web site that has an exploded view of the head, I would love to take a look at it.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

Now the real question that I'm still trying to get some help on: can you hear a rythmic tapping sound coming from your warmed up engine. Specifically behind the front right wheel well at ground level.

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Everyone's a comedian. My work order states that the lifters were replaced. I confess I'm not an engine expert, but when the dealership puts that in writing there must be something to it.

 

If someone can give me a web site that has an exploded view of the head, I would love to take a look at it.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

Now the real question that I'm still trying to get some help on: can you hear a rythmic tapping sound coming from your warmed up engine. Specifically behind the front right wheel well at ground level.

 

Rob, is the car 100% stock? ...or what mods, if any?

 

Also, is it a light 'tick' or more of a dull 'tock' or 'knock' ?

 

This is the DOHC head... thge cams (not shown) actuate the top of the valve stems (shown) via "finger-followers" (not shown)... there are no other pieces in the sequence that I'm aware of. If there are lifters I don't know where they could be. Possibly the dealer changed the followers and just called them lifters? Dunno, but there are no lifters in the DOHC or SOHC motors that I'm aware of. If I can find a pic of the followers, I'll post it.

 

Dan

post-4902-1186203745_thumb.jpg

post-4902-1186203745_thumb.jpg

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Everyone's a comedian. My work order states that the lifters were replaced. I confess I'm not an engine expert, but when the dealership puts that in writing there must be something to it.

 

If someone can give me a web site that has an exploded view of the head, I would love to take a look at it.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

Now the real question that I'm still trying to get some help on: can you hear a rythmic tapping sound coming from your warmed up engine. Specifically behind the front right wheel well at ground level.

Today I checked out my car very carefully specifically after reading this post.

 

After driving around for 50 miles running errons I listened to my car while I waited in a parking lot to meet my wife. The car was running and I was ourside listening by the front wheel wells. Nothing there. I got down on my knees to listen. No ticking. I could hear a faint noise thru the heat extractors so I popped the hood. I then could hear some faint ticking noises from the fuel injector shiney things that run along each side of the SC.

 

When I got back home I cleaned up my car and put it into the shop and listened again when my car was in the shop. Same thing. You can not hear the injector things unless you pop the hood or listen near the heat extractors.

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Rob, is the car 100% stock? ...or what mods, if any?

 

Also, is it a light 'tick' or more of a dull 'tock' or 'knock' ?

 

This is the DOHC head... thge cams (not shown) actuate the top of the valve stems (shown) via "finger-followers" (not shown)... there are no other pieces in the sequence that I'm aware of. If there are lifters I don't know where they could be. Possibly the dealer changed the followers and just called them lifters? Dunno, but there are no lifters in the DOHC or SOHC motors that I'm aware of. If I can find a pic of the followers, I'll post it.

 

Dan

2001_4.6_Cobra_DOHC_head.jpg

Hi Dan,

 

I appreciate the trouble you went through to find the pics for me. That reveals alot. I will get to the bottom of this.

 

The car is %100 stock. Between 1300 and 3000 miles the car developed a sporadic ticking sound that was most prominent behind the left wheel well about 2 feet off the ground. The dealership had the car for a week and claimed to have replaced all of the lifters (their words). That particular sound has been muted 85% to an acceptable level, but know the car has a rythmic ticking (I would almost call it knocking) sound that is most prominent below the car and behind the front right wheel. It seems to be transmitted through the exhaust just below the engine. The engine sounds perfectly normal when started cold, but then after about 10 minutes of idling or after the car is driven and warmed up the sound appears. If I didn't know better I would guess that it was an exhaust leak.

 

Any way I'm hoping that a few more of our fellow Shelby owners will give a check of their cars for me. If know one else is hearing this then I can assume it's not normal and grounds for further inspection.

 

Dan if you or any of the other guys have any thing else useful for me I would really appreciate it. This whole thing pretty much sucks.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

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Rob, is the car 100% stock? ...or what mods, if any?

 

Also, is it a light 'tick' or more of a dull 'tock' or 'knock' ?

 

This is the DOHC head... thge cams (not shown) actuate the top of the valve stems (shown) via "finger-followers" (not shown)... there are no other pieces in the sequence that I'm aware of. If there are lifters I don't know where they could be. Possibly the dealer changed the followers and just called them lifters? Dunno, but there are no lifters in the DOHC or SOHC motors that I'm aware of. If I can find a pic of the followers, I'll post it.

 

Dan

post-4902-1186203745_thumb.jpg

Dan, I heard the tick on MMs car when I was in Virginia. It sounded more like a light tick to me...but MM would be a better judge. It was loud....I didn't even have to bend my head down to hear it. I know the noise Mustang5 is talking about. I heard it once in my car...but it was months ago and I've not heard it since. Here's a key though...since I heard the noise two things have happened. 1) Summer has arrived...remember I'm in Indiana and 2) I've changed oil (I'm not mentioning the oil I use for fear of flaming...but I think you know what I use).

 

Edit: The one difference I see between MMs noise and Mustang5's noise is that MMs was on the driver's side (Unless Mustang5 actually MEANS the driver's side when he says the "right" side...as he said himself he's not an engine guy and typically you call the passenger side the right side).

 

Dave

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Everyone's a comedian. My work order states that the lifters were replaced. I confess I'm not an engine expert, but when the dealership puts that in writing there must be something to it.

 

If someone can give me a web site that has an exploded view of the head, I would love to take a look at it.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

Now the real question that I'm still trying to get some help on: can you hear a rythmic tapping sound coming from your warmed up engine. Specifically behind the front right wheel well at ground level.

Rob, try not to take it too personally...you are trying to get to the bottom of an issue that may become very important. I'll support that even if the words get mixed up a bit. See my post above.

 

There's a guy on this site who's a Ford Master Technician...can't recall his name..he has a white/blue car and doesn't post much.....maybe we can pm him if we find out his name.

 

Dave

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I know I'm a new guy around here, and I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but these engines do kind of have "lifters".

 

I believe Ford calls them "Hydraulic Lash Adjusters" now, but for all "intents and purposes" it does the job of a lifter.

 

In the picture of the head posted above one end of the "follower" is sitting on the tip of the valve and the other end of the "follower" is sitting on this:

 

post-9678-1186240299_thumb.jpg

 

While this part does not ride on the cam like a traditional lifter it's job is to fill with oil and the small rounded plunger keeps pressure on the follower so it stays in contact with the cam.

 

All 2V, 3V and 4V Modular Motors have these "lifter" type parts, so I am sure this what Rob had replaced by the dealership.

 

Our Shelby has 1800 miles and no unusual engine ticks or knocks, even after the many 700RWHP+ dyno pulls and a few trips down the track...not to mention the hard street miles.

post-9678-1186240299_thumb.jpg

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Rob, sorry if I came across a little smart assy. My people skills aren't the best sometimes. Hope you get to the bottom of your problem and get it resolved. Tim

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thanks, nx338... clever design -- so the lash adjusters are serving essentially the same purpose as lifters ...at the 'anchored' end of the followers ...with the added design benefit, it would seem. of additional hydraulic leverage leverage (that an inline pushrod-lifter combo lacks) ...very clever! Thanks for the insight.

 

 

mustang5, you additional description makes me now feel it's not piston slap because you said it doesn;t do it cold and has to warm up (oil thin down?) before it does it. Also the fact replacing the lash-adjusters changed where you're hearing the noise says either there were two things going (the orriginal drivers side 'tic' that the adjusters mostly corrected and the pass-side 'toc' that possibly wasn't noticed until after that [?]) ...or someting changed.

 

Hopefully others can listen to theirs for you (I don't have one). Still, using an automotive stethascope or a length of tubing held tightly to your ear while touching the other end to various areas on the valve-covers and sides of the engine can reveal a lot. If the valvetrain for one cylinder is making noise, you'll notice a distinct difference. Don't sweat minor volume differences when you listen, listen for a different 'type' of sound (tone and harshness differences) versus other cylinders when you listen with a tube/steth.

 

Also, you can use the tubing to listen for an exhaust leak too ...no need to put tubeing on the header-to-pipes joint ...jsut keep it a safe 1/2" away and you'll immediately hear if there's a leak (look for very noticeable volume difference versus just tone changes and slight volume differences) as you listen at different points around the exhaust joints.

 

Good luck M5

 

 

Dave, I think M5's post just before yours mentioned that the sound changed to the other side after the adjusters were replaced, so he probably did mean the 'right' (pass) side for the present toc/knock.

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I know I'm a new guy around here, and I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but these engines do kind of have "lifters".

 

I believe Ford calls them "Hydraulic Lash Adjusters" now, but for all "intents and purposes" it does the job of a lifter.

 

In the picture of the head posted above one end of the "follower" is sitting on the tip of the valve and the other end of the "follower" is sitting on this:

 

lifter.jpg

 

While this part does not ride on the cam like a traditional lifter it's job is to fill with oil and the small rounded plunger keeps pressure on the follower so it stays in contact with the cam.

 

All 2V, 3V and 4V Modular Motors have these "lifter" type parts, so I am sure this what Rob had replaced by the dealership.

 

Our Shelby has 1800 miles and no unusual engine ticks or knocks, even after the many 700RWHP+ dyno pulls and a few trips down the track...not to mention the hard street miles.

 

Thank you,

 

You are exactly 100% correct. I just spoke with a Ford Master Mechanic SVT Technician and that is exactly what he said. The part numbers for the lifter(hydraulic lash adjusters) are 4G7Z*6500*AA and F77Z*6500*AB. Ford builds the car and the engine and they call it a lifter. Hopefully we can put this subject to sleep.

 

I guess I can assume I'm the only one with this particular noise. I'll be heading back to my dealership for the 5th time to try and get this resolved. I'm glad the rest of you are having better luck with your rides, because I'm not enjoying mine much right now.

 

Rob

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thanks, nx338... clever design -- so the lash adjusters are serving essentially the same purpose as lifters ...at the 'anchored' end of the followers ...with the added design benefit, it would seem. of additional hydraulic leverage leverage (that an inline pushrod-lifter combo lacks) ...very clever! Thanks for the insight.

mustang5, you additional description makes me now feel it's not piston slap because you said it doesn;t do it cold and has to warm up (oil thin down?) before it does it. Also the fact replacing the lash-adjusters changed where you're hearing the noise says either there were two things going (the orriginal drivers side 'tic' that the adjusters mostly corrected and the pass-side 'toc' that possibly wasn't noticed until after that [?]) ...or someting changed.

 

Hopefully others can listen to theirs for you (I don't have one). Still, using an automotive stethascope or a length of tubing held tightly to your ear while touching the other end to various areas on the valve-covers and sides of the engine can reveal a lot. If the valvetrain for one cylinder is making noise, you'll notice a distinct difference. Don't sweat minor volume differences when you listen, listen for a different 'type' of sound (tone and harshness differences) versus other cylinders when you listen with a tube/steth.

 

Also, you can use the tubing to listen for an exhaust leak too ...no need to put tubeing on the header-to-pipes joint ...jsut keep it a safe 1/2" away and you'll immediately hear if there's a leak (look for very noticeable volume difference versus just tone changes and slight volume differences) as you listen at different points around the exhaust joints.

 

Good luck M5

Dave, I think M5's post just before yours mentioned that the sound changed to the other side after the adjusters were replaced, so he probably did mean the 'right' (pass) side for the present toc/knock.

 

Thanks for the info, I appreciate every thing you all have to say. The noise did change from driver side to passenger side after the lash adjusters were changed. The driver side noise was most prominent about 2 feet above the ground, the new noise on the passenger side is most prominent under the car behind the front wheel.

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Thank you,

 

You are exactly 100% correct. I just spoke with a Ford Master Mechanic SVT Technician and that is exactly what he said. The part numbers for the lifter(hydraulic lash adjusters) are 4G7Z*6500*AA and F77Z*6500*AB. Ford builds the car and the engine and they call it a lifter. Hopefully we can put this subject to sleep.

 

I guess I can assume I'm the only one with this particular noise. I'll be heading back to my dealership for the 5th time to try and get this resolved. I'm glad the rest of you are having better luck with your rides, because I'm not enjoying mine much right now.

 

Rob

Rob, you are NOT the only one with the noise...as I've said...Mastersmech1 has a similar noise. I thought I had mentioned this to you.

 

Hang in there, hopefully you'll figure out something.

 

Dave

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Hi Guys,

 

I was the one who posted the previous topics: Engine Tick and Engine Tick Revisited. Any way to make a long story short the proposed solution to my problem was to replace all of my lifters which my local dealership did under warranty. The original ticking sound that I heard has been reduced significantly all though not gone completely. The part that is now bothering me is that the car is now making a new sound that I did not notice before. The sound is a rythmic ticking type sound that is most prominent under the car behind the front wheels. It could almost be mistaken for an exhaust leak but is not. I am asking for your help. The next time you have driven your car for awhile (in other words good and warmed up) would you please listen for just a minute down at ground level behind the right front wheel. As you all know the chance of running into another GT 500 on the road is pretty slim. If I can build up a little data base based on your answers I'll either feel comfortable knowing that my new found sound is normal or that know one else has it and I can go back to my dealership with a little bit of fire power for further action. I'll thank you all in advance.

 

Happy driving,

 

Rob

 

Rob,

 

I posted it in the other thread, but mine has a noise that about 75% of them have. It's not immediately on startup, like old-line "lifter" noise....nor is it as deep sounding as piston slap. IT's not injector noise either.

 

Mine happens 5-10 seconds after startup and will remain for up to 5 minutes....starting either a hot or cold motor.

 

The only time you can hear it is when you're against a wall on the driver's side. Parking garages or your home garage are perfect places to experience it.

 

I've had three SVT mechanics as well as 2 different performance specialists tell me the same thing...."mod motors do that".

 

So, I'm on record (a couple of times) with Ford and it was both pre and post-mods, so they know it's not something the mods caused.

 

 

bj

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  • 2 weeks later...
Rob,

 

I posted it in the other thread, but mine has a noise that about 75% of them have. It's not immediately on startup, like old-line "lifter" noise....nor is it as deep sounding as piston slap. IT's not injector noise either.

 

Mine happens 5-10 seconds after startup and will remain for up to 5 minutes....starting either a hot or cold motor.

 

The only time you can hear it is when you're against a wall on the driver's side. Parking garages or your home garage are perfect places to experience it.

 

I've had three SVT mechanics as well as 2 different performance specialists tell me the same thing...."mod motors do that".

 

So, I'm on record (a couple of times) with Ford and it was both pre and post-mods, so they know it's not something the mods caused.

bj

 

Thanks bj,

 

My noise sounds similar to what your talking about but does not go away. I am going to participate at an all Fords car show this next Sunday and hope that there will be several GT500's there that I can listen to and make a direct comparison.

 

I'm like you, I wanted to make sure these noises were documented by Ford before I did any mods.

 

Hopefully I'll have more info in a week or so.

 

Happy motoring,

 

Rob

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I'm wondering if it has something to do with the oil pump since (as bj pointed out for his car) it takes a number of seconds to develop (hot or cold -- possibly as pressure comes up??) ...but I can't think of anything that would satisfy all of the criteria reported, especially it going away after up to 5 minutes, unless that's the point where the oil and pump reach temperature equilibrium and that somehow makes the noise go away. Just some thoughts... still stumped here.

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