GT/SC Whipple

[39Mustang]

Wondering if any GT/SC owner switched to a Wipplecharger and what was the HP difference and or any non supercharged SGT if you added a Whipple what were your HP numbers?

[twobjshelbys]

Not sure I understand the question.  The Shelby GT/SC had/has two S/C options:  Kenne Bell (which I had on both of my GT/SC and was the initial availability) and the Ford Racing kit which was a Whipple.  I recall they both netted out the same horsepower numbers.

Both were tuned back from the supercharger's ultimate capability since the 4.6L 3V engine could only handle about 500hp limit of the factory internals. 

[William Rodgers]

My Whipple 550 put down 496 RWHP, at the time Dennis from Tasca said that was very strong.

 

Based on what I recall this is more then the KB, I chose the Whipple because I thought it was a more complete package, but they are both great.

 

[noac]

The Whipple puts out a little more because it has a pulley that creates 10 pounds of boost.  The Kenne Bell uses a pulley that creates 8.5 pounds of boost.  The Kenne Bell is a 2.6 vs Whipple 2.3.  I went with a Kenne Bell because I wanted less boost and less horsepower for a stock 4.6 3V.  If the day comes and I build my stock motor to handle more horsepower my Kenne Bell has room to grow.  Most people go with a Whipple these days.  It is an easier install and looks more factory than the Kenne Bell.  I went with the reverse logic that a GT/SC is not factory so I didn’t want it to look factory.  I have a 2007 GT500 for the factory look.  Nothing more than personal preference when choosing.  

[shelbygt104]

When the warranty ran out on my 07 white SGT, I went with the 2.6 Kenne Bell. After the mechanic installed it, who was one of my car buddies that worked at our local Ford dealership. The next day we went to the dyno shop and the 1st two runs were 583.3 and 539.5 at the flywheel. We didn't realize the air conditioner was still on, so I ran across the street and got a bag of ice and set in on top of the supercharger. He turned off the air conditioner, waited 20 minutes for the ice to cool it down and did a 3rd run. To my surprise the 3rd run was 591.1 at the flywheel and 514 RWHP. Needless to say, I haven't hit the rev limiter since that day.

[39Mustang]

Interesting numbers... if I recall correctly the KB was the only supercharger available for the Shelby GT but I could be wrong? I know for Automatic cars it was only the KB

You guys see the HP numbers the new Coyote w/ a Whipplecharger gets and the new 2020 GT500's have, damn that would be nice to have that kind of power in the GT/SC! If anyone has driven a 2018-2020 Mustang GT w/ the 10r80 Automatic these are very fast from factory. My 2008 GT/SC is still my favorite that I own just wish it had the HP of the current supercharged Coyote's

[twobjshelbys]

1 hour ago, 39Mustang said:

Interesting numbers... if I recall correctly the KB was the only supercharger available for the Shelby GT but I could be wrong? I know for Automatic cars it was only the KB

My BJ Shelby GT was one of the early adopters.  I was in line for a Paxton when they pulled the plug on them due to CARB.  The next approved unit was the Kenne Bell which I got (on both cars).  The Whipple later became available through the Ford Racing and after that most people went with the Whipple.   One big difference was how the air box was reused.  Part of the requirement for CARB was that the original air box had to be reused due to some charcoal filtering that may or may not have been relevant.  KB solved the problem by relocating it closer to the ground (and maybe on the other side of the engine?) .  This supposedly also lowered the temperature of the air source which theoretically helps with HP.  

Both of my cars were convertibles but I don't recall either KB or FRPP being restricted to one or the other.  The convertibles did get about 50hp detuned supposedly due to chassis stiffness.  Convertibles also didn't get one of the FRPP suspension bits. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by twobjshelbys

[noac]

On 4/21/2020 at 11:12 PM, shelbygt104 said:

When the warranty ran out on my 07 white SGT, I went with the 2.6 Kenne Bell. After the mechanic installed it, who was one of my car buddies that worked at our local Ford dealership. The next day we went to the dyno shop and the 1st two runs were 583.3 and 539.5 at the flywheel. We didn't realize the air conditioner was still on, so I ran across the street and got a bag of ice and set in on top of the supercharger. He turned off the air conditioner, waited 20 minutes for the ice to cool it down and did a 3rd run. To my surprise the 3rd run was 591.1 at the flywheel and 514 RWHP. Needless to say, I haven't hit the rev limiter since that day.

That is great power from a Kenne Bell...is that with the stock tune that Kenne Bell supplies with the kit?  Is that with the stock pulley?  Kenne Bell also points out that their numbers are more indicative of what the car actually puts out on the street since their dyno pulls are done with the hood closed.

[shelbygt104]

It was the stock pulley and he tweaked the tune a little. I wanted a smaller pulley but he advised against it, said I was getting to old and didn't want to see me get hurt lol. After the 3rd run he pulled it out to the parking lot, dropped the clutch and did a 360 which scared the crap out of me. There was 9 other Mustangs getting dynoed that day and the only one that had a better pull than me (518 RWHP) was my buddy with an 08 Bullit. The same guy had installed the Bullit with a Whipple months earlier but didn't tell me until later that he got a special tune from that company in Indiana. With the Kenne Bell the cold air is installed on the passenger side and had to relocate the windshield wiper fluid bottle which came with the supercharger kit. Both chargers work well with the 4.6, but that polished Kenne Bell looks killer. You're going to love it Tom...........

[William Rodgers]

12 hours ago, shelbygt104 said:

It was the stock pulley and he tweaked the tune a little. I wanted a smaller pulley but he advised against it, said I was getting to old and didn't want to see me get hurt lol. After the 3rd run he pulled it out to the parking lot, dropped the clutch and did a 360 which scared the crap out of me. There was 9 other Mustangs getting dynoed that day and the only one that had a better pull than me (518 RWHP) was my buddy with an 08 Bullit. The same guy had installed the Bullit with a Whipple months earlier but didn't tell me until later that he got a special tune from that company in Indiana. With the Kenne Bell the cold air is installed on the passenger side and had to relocate the windshield wiper fluid bottle which came with the supercharger kit. Both chargers work well with the 4.6, but that polished Kenne Bell looks killer. You're going to love it Tom...........

Be careful every single engine that’s blown up has had a custom tune, not worth the extra 20 HP in my opinion.  That’s a very expensive 20 HP if or when it happens.  It’s been a while but if you look at archives here you will see many blew their engines and every one of them had a custom tune because they wanted to get just a little bit more.  I’m not aware of any with a KB or Whipple tune that blew their engine.

 

[BlackSGT]

8 hours ago, carnut12 said:

Be careful every single engine that’s blown up has had a custom tune, not worth the extra 20 HP in my opinion.  That’s a very expensive 20 HP if or when it happens.  It’s been a while but if you look at archives here you will see many blew their engines and every one of them had a custom tune because they wanted to get just a little bit more.  I’m not aware of any with a KB or Whipple tune that blew their engine.

 

I did a lot of research before pulling the trigger on an SC upgrade 40K+ miles ago, and can attest to carnut's good advise. I requested the stock KB tune even though the tuner offered to get more HP. I'm at 475 hp, plenty enough to break loose when I want, and it still scares the crap out of me when I row hard.

[shelbygt104]

Hey Guys, I appreciate the concern and advice, but I've never raw dogged either of my Shelby's. I get more enjoyment by just going out to the garage and sitting with them in the evening. Both cars have enjoyed a life of leisure, attending car shows and cruise-ins. Both cars have been to Mustang Week in Myrtle Beach SC. 3 times each, which is a 1,000 mile round trip. Both Stangs are low mileage, the white SGT just turned 29,000 miles and the red GT 500  has 17,000 miles. Thanks again for the feedback.

[Mongoose]

4 hours ago, BlackSGT said:

I did a lot of research before pulling the trigger on an SC upgrade 40K+ miles ago, and can attest to carnut's good advise. I requested the stock KB tune even though the tuner offered to get more HP. I'm at 475 hp, plenty enough to break loose when I want, and it still scares the crap out of me when I row hard.

Hey guys, just my two cents worth.  Both you guys gave very sensible advice and realize that too much H.P. isn’t always good or needed either and why pay more for more than you actually need.  I love pulling gears too, and yes I’ve had the crap scared out of me a few times in a car and also a motorcycle, it’s not a very fun feeling and it sure the hell isn’t safe and I’m lucky to still be alive!  My 08 Shelby GT now provides me with all the fun I need, and yes I have thought about the SC upgrade and that it would be cool, but after looking back and really thinking about it still puts a huge smile on my face.  I guess what I’m really saying is as long as it give’s me miles of smiles that’s all that’s really needed for me, but you guys are younger and you might hunger for a little more power, been there, done that, so I do understand.  Stay safe and keep it grounded right side-up and peddle to the metal.       

[shelbygt104]

Hey Goose, I'm probably the oldest guy in this chat, but you're right about the miles of smiles, enjoyed the message.

[Mongoose]

3 hours ago, shelbygt104 said:

Hey Goose, I'm probably the oldest guy in this chat, but you're right about the miles of smiles, enjoyed the message.

Thanks bud!  I’m not a spring chicken anymore, but I’m still trying to figure out who’s that old guy looking back at me in the mirror????         

[SWEDEMAN]

On 4/18/2020 at 3:11 PM, twobjshelbys said:

Not sure I understand the question.  The Shelby GT/SC had/has two S/C options:  Kenne Bell (which I had on both of my GT/SC and was the initial availability) and the Ford Racing kit which was a Whipple.  I recall they both netted out the same horsepower numbers.

Both were tuned back from the supercharger's ultimate capability since the 4.6L 3V engine could only handle about 500hp limit of the factory internals. 

Again...twobjshelbys you have a short memory. Now I’m not being anything but thruthful here but you always forget the GTSC had 3 SC options: 1) Paxton which was Carroll’s first option as his relationship with Paxton was long and dear. 2) Kene Bell 3) whipple.

I don’t know why you always forget about the Paxton as we have talked about this several times. My favorite, was the Paxton by a long shot. The Whipple and KB they just had way too much power immediately and the cars just float across the lanes. I did have the whipple installed by SA LasVegas on my black/silver GTSC and from what I hear the KB was just like that.  I also had the Paxton which was also installed at SA Las Vegas in my white/silver GTSC is different. The car comes out the hole straight as a string and comes in strong at 2800-2900 rpms which keeps the car in its lane. Oh, I think the whipple and KB may beat the Paxton by a hair if driven correctly, but by far there is a reason why Carroll chose Paxton and it wasn’t just for the relationship, it was the performance. The Paxton flat out was/is the better SC in the 4.6. Just thought I’d remind you again, with jest.

[twobjshelbys]

I mentioned that I was in line for Paxton when they stalled and eventually backed out of 2008 model year.  There were only a handful if cars built but it wasn't generally available so I focus on what people could actually buy.

 

The behavior of the Paxton  is more along the feeling of a turbocharger. A little lag before power kicks in.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing.

Edited April 27, 2020 by twobjshelbys

[SWEDEMAN]

On 4/27/2020 at 2:33 AM, twobjshelbys said:

I mentioned that I was in line for Paxton when they stalled and eventually backed out of 2008 model year.  There were only a handful if cars built but it wasn't generally available so I focus on what people could actually buy.

 

The behavior of the Paxton  is more along the feeling of a turbocharger. A little lag before power kicks in.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing.

..... maybe a tiny bit...but it is so much MORE vicious. IMO, and I've owned both Whipple and Paxton GTSC's and drove them both well. The Paxton is so much more, maybe behaved, off the line/out of the hole. The Whipple/KB floats and spins out of the hole and are basically uncontrollable unless you are an excellent practiced driver. The Paxton screams at 2800-2900 RPM's. That does not mean there is zero boost when that is happening it just means the most boost comes on at those RPM's. All in all with the right driver, the Whipple/KB will most likely out power the Paxton but in most every case the Paxton is the better SC for performance both road and track. Yes Carroll knew what he was doing! It was only when they could not get 50 state certified is when he changed., otherwise every SGT/SC would have been a Paxton. 

[Mongoose]

6 hours ago, SWEDEMAN said:

..... maybe a tiny bit...but it is so much MORE vicious. IMO, and I've owned both Whipple and Paxton GTSC's and drove them both well. The Paxton is so much more, maybe behaved, off the line/out of the hole. The Whipple/KB floats and spins out of the hole and are basically uncontrollable unless you are an excellent practiced driver. The Paxton screams at 2800-2900 RPM's. That does not mean there is zero boost when that is happening it just means the most boost comes on at those RPM's. All in all with the right driver, the Whipple/KB will most likely out power the Paxton but in most every case the Paxton is the better SC for performance both road and track. Yes Carroll knew what he was doing! It was only when they could not get 50 state certified is when he changed., otherwise every SGT/SC would have been a Paxton. 

Lots of good info on the Paxton, it sounds like a stout unit!